H
heronimo
Guest
why he wants to suffer his people
- Status
L
LumenGent
Guest
It isn’t an easy question to answer. It isn’t correct to state that God wants his people to suffer, rather suffering is a result of original sin and this is a forgotten or a denied doctrine amongst Catholics. Under this category would fit all diseases, disabilities etc. God permitts such cases for his gretaer glory and goodness.
H
heronimo
Guest
why it is a denied doctrine for amongst catholics?
I
iWantToLoveHim
Guest
Hi! maybe this would help to answer your question. 
Quoted from greatcrusade.org/greatcrusade/Love/Love-3.htm:
Suffering Is a Gift from God
CL-59 12-Jan-96 God the Father
Most beloved daughter, united with My Son in the desire and redemption of the Cross, your soul satisfies for the guilt in the uniting love, found in the tender knowledge of My Goodness which is united to the grief and suffering of the human heart; for by infinite love united to infinite suffering, My infinite Mercy works.
But man ignores this: he does not want to hear talk of pain accepted and desired for love of Me. It is redemption through My Son and of those who are united to Him in suffering, and who calling humbly to My Fatherly Heart, achieve perfect knowledge of themselves, of Me in them.
Do not be sad if finding yourself in this knowledge that you may have to suffer. Suffice to know that for that suffering, I will no longer remember how you may have offended Me. And for those for whom your love has satisfied My Mercy, that suffering will prepare them so that they may receive My gifts.
The luminous souls of high stature that are at My left are the souls that unite themselves to My Son’s pains with their own. Sharing in My eternal Life, they will be and are very close to Me.
I will tell you what the suffering of My Son’s Heart is. You will understand that it is a reality. But I want you to write it for the knowledge of so many souls that do not understand how suffering could make them divine.
My Son’s suffering is latent in the universe ever since He redeemed the human race, and it will be so till the end of time if they do not come to understand that suffering is a gift from God and they reject it. Perhaps if they knew the value that this suffering has before My eyes, then not only would they not reject it, but they would insistently ask Me for it…
Upon giving His life for souls and becoming man in order to be able to suffer and redeem them, My Son elevated the nobility of suffering. He elevated it to such a degree that on being accepted voluntarily by a soul and becoming a scapegoat, the soul instantaneously takes upon itself not its own sufferings but rather part of My Son’s which live forever for the redemption of man.
Suffering involves in itself: light, love, and knowledge of the truth. My Son’s Heart no longer suffers, but His pain will live in the universe as long as men insist on not seeing the light, in hating, and in not wanting to understand that I am the Truth.
My vision takes in what was, what is, and what will be, with such clarity that no one will be able to understand what is all before Me at the same time, without limitation nor space, and that can not only not make a mistake but not even get mixed up… This is why I tell you that, since the redemption of the human race by My Son, We have wanted for His pains, anguishes, sufferings, and martyrdom to remain in time, so that those elected souls, continue partaking of these tribulations and are able to be part of His redemption.
When not one soul is left to redeem and the end of time comes, then the suffering of the God-Man will disappear.
That is why, My daughter, I have wanted to make you see how Jesus’ suffering satisfies… The pain endured by My Son is an inexhaustible fountain of divine goods and gifts, source of sanctity, and eternal life for those who, identified with His Passion, unite themselves to Him, and with Him endure and suffer a martyrdom that is slow but intense in its effectiveness. That is, to bear the physical and spiritual suffering without fainting, smiling at the pain, and wishing to share it with Jesus for the salvation of souls until the end of their days.
Unfortunately, humanity refuses pain more and more and anxiously seeks all the means that science discovers to suppress it. It does not want to accept pain in life and comes in its audacity to reject the merits of My Son’s Passion and Martyrdom in the redemption of man.
In his pride and rebelliousness he wants to come to Me without going through Christ… He does not want a wounded and crucified God to remind him of what He suffered for all men, forcing him to recognize that he is indebted to Him for his redemption.
They want a distant God and a God that will not bother them, without any painful reminders that could cause them remorse. They want God to admit that they, without Him, upon discovering all the mysteries of nature, are taking control of the great hidden force in the universe; to do so, they do not need Him, for they are intelligent and free beings. They ignore that I gave them that intelligence so that they could work for Me in the great work of the universe.
Also those I elevated to the highest dignity want to forge for themselves and others, a God that will submit to their ambitions and whims. They want to change the Church to the materialistic rhythm of the world, introducing in her, ways and customs that border on heresy and error.
Liberty should not mean independence and licentiousness… Evolution does not consist in changing the faith so that the Church will be better. Ever since the Church was founded by Christ and illuminated by the Holy Spirit, it carries in itself all the divine seeds for its gradual development in the ages and for its divine evolution in the souls that form her; and continuing in them everything that, being eternal, can take them to their God.
When they leave the trenches designed by the hand of Jesus, they deviate dangerously towards heresy, rebellion to the divine laws, the arrogance to not follow its laws when they elect themselves to renew their Church.
To come to Me, light unreachable, it is necessary to go through Christ and Mary. One has to follow their footsteps and humbly obey the divine designs. That is how the faithful man must accept it if he wants to find Me who, with My Divine Son and the Holy Spirit, We are one God.
For this, My Son’s Heart that gave the last drops of His Blood for men, wants to remain in the universe by means of His sufferings that live on and remain as help and encouragement for the souls that hunger for the divine and want to unite themselves to Him in the redemption.
In this way His merciful Love becomes present and His redemption everlasting to so many souls that were, are, and will be in the course of all ages.
Suffer silently, humbly, feeling the hunger for the salvation of souls, and going through all the tribulations to the extent that I want to send them. In this way you will unite with the suffering of My Son and I will know that you seek the Kingdom of God in souls.
Quoted from greatcrusade.org/greatcrusade/Love/Love-3.htm:
Suffering Is a Gift from God
CL-59 12-Jan-96 God the Father
Most beloved daughter, united with My Son in the desire and redemption of the Cross, your soul satisfies for the guilt in the uniting love, found in the tender knowledge of My Goodness which is united to the grief and suffering of the human heart; for by infinite love united to infinite suffering, My infinite Mercy works.
But man ignores this: he does not want to hear talk of pain accepted and desired for love of Me. It is redemption through My Son and of those who are united to Him in suffering, and who calling humbly to My Fatherly Heart, achieve perfect knowledge of themselves, of Me in them.
Do not be sad if finding yourself in this knowledge that you may have to suffer. Suffice to know that for that suffering, I will no longer remember how you may have offended Me. And for those for whom your love has satisfied My Mercy, that suffering will prepare them so that they may receive My gifts.
The luminous souls of high stature that are at My left are the souls that unite themselves to My Son’s pains with their own. Sharing in My eternal Life, they will be and are very close to Me.
I will tell you what the suffering of My Son’s Heart is. You will understand that it is a reality. But I want you to write it for the knowledge of so many souls that do not understand how suffering could make them divine.
My Son’s suffering is latent in the universe ever since He redeemed the human race, and it will be so till the end of time if they do not come to understand that suffering is a gift from God and they reject it. Perhaps if they knew the value that this suffering has before My eyes, then not only would they not reject it, but they would insistently ask Me for it…
Upon giving His life for souls and becoming man in order to be able to suffer and redeem them, My Son elevated the nobility of suffering. He elevated it to such a degree that on being accepted voluntarily by a soul and becoming a scapegoat, the soul instantaneously takes upon itself not its own sufferings but rather part of My Son’s which live forever for the redemption of man.
Suffering involves in itself: light, love, and knowledge of the truth. My Son’s Heart no longer suffers, but His pain will live in the universe as long as men insist on not seeing the light, in hating, and in not wanting to understand that I am the Truth.
My vision takes in what was, what is, and what will be, with such clarity that no one will be able to understand what is all before Me at the same time, without limitation nor space, and that can not only not make a mistake but not even get mixed up… This is why I tell you that, since the redemption of the human race by My Son, We have wanted for His pains, anguishes, sufferings, and martyrdom to remain in time, so that those elected souls, continue partaking of these tribulations and are able to be part of His redemption.
When not one soul is left to redeem and the end of time comes, then the suffering of the God-Man will disappear.
That is why, My daughter, I have wanted to make you see how Jesus’ suffering satisfies… The pain endured by My Son is an inexhaustible fountain of divine goods and gifts, source of sanctity, and eternal life for those who, identified with His Passion, unite themselves to Him, and with Him endure and suffer a martyrdom that is slow but intense in its effectiveness. That is, to bear the physical and spiritual suffering without fainting, smiling at the pain, and wishing to share it with Jesus for the salvation of souls until the end of their days.
Unfortunately, humanity refuses pain more and more and anxiously seeks all the means that science discovers to suppress it. It does not want to accept pain in life and comes in its audacity to reject the merits of My Son’s Passion and Martyrdom in the redemption of man.
In his pride and rebelliousness he wants to come to Me without going through Christ… He does not want a wounded and crucified God to remind him of what He suffered for all men, forcing him to recognize that he is indebted to Him for his redemption.
They want a distant God and a God that will not bother them, without any painful reminders that could cause them remorse. They want God to admit that they, without Him, upon discovering all the mysteries of nature, are taking control of the great hidden force in the universe; to do so, they do not need Him, for they are intelligent and free beings. They ignore that I gave them that intelligence so that they could work for Me in the great work of the universe.
Also those I elevated to the highest dignity want to forge for themselves and others, a God that will submit to their ambitions and whims. They want to change the Church to the materialistic rhythm of the world, introducing in her, ways and customs that border on heresy and error.
Liberty should not mean independence and licentiousness… Evolution does not consist in changing the faith so that the Church will be better. Ever since the Church was founded by Christ and illuminated by the Holy Spirit, it carries in itself all the divine seeds for its gradual development in the ages and for its divine evolution in the souls that form her; and continuing in them everything that, being eternal, can take them to their God.
When they leave the trenches designed by the hand of Jesus, they deviate dangerously towards heresy, rebellion to the divine laws, the arrogance to not follow its laws when they elect themselves to renew their Church.
To come to Me, light unreachable, it is necessary to go through Christ and Mary. One has to follow their footsteps and humbly obey the divine designs. That is how the faithful man must accept it if he wants to find Me who, with My Divine Son and the Holy Spirit, We are one God.
For this, My Son’s Heart that gave the last drops of His Blood for men, wants to remain in the universe by means of His sufferings that live on and remain as help and encouragement for the souls that hunger for the divine and want to unite themselves to Him in the redemption.
In this way His merciful Love becomes present and His redemption everlasting to so many souls that were, are, and will be in the course of all ages.
Suffer silently, humbly, feeling the hunger for the salvation of souls, and going through all the tribulations to the extent that I want to send them. In this way you will unite with the suffering of My Son and I will know that you seek the Kingdom of God in souls.
G
GodLovesTheSpek
Guest
Disabilities and other maladies can seem to be an unfair, unbearable, insufferable burden. These are “crosses” that many refer to – the Cross that Christ carried. It is the cross to bear that when approached properly and prayerfully can lead us closer to Him.
M
mardukm
Guest
Because many people want to make up their own religion, and do not want to listen to what the Church teaches.
These people think that religion is about feeling good. Religion is NOT about feeling good; instead, religion is about worshipping God.
Blessings
L
LumenGent
Guest
As Mardukm pointed out above.
I will also add that if all Catholics accept original sin as an article of the faith, we will understand that sin is reposnible for all the chaos in the world. It is also a big reason as to why many have left the Church and have become protestants or even atheists.
I will also add that if all Catholics accept original sin as an article of the faith, we will understand that sin is reposnible for all the chaos in the world. It is also a big reason as to why many have left the Church and have become protestants or even atheists.
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
As our Lord Said:
Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Matthew 10:37-39 ESV
Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
Matthew 16:24-26 ESV
And he said to all, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it. For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself? For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
Luke 9:23-26 ESV
Or as St. Paul the Apostle said,
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.
Colossians 1:24-26 ESV
I’m polydisabled, and these tell me what I need to know to help me deal with the disabilities.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Matthew 10:37-39 ESV
Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
Matthew 16:24-26 ESV
And he said to all, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it. For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself? For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
Luke 9:23-26 ESV
Or as St. Paul the Apostle said,
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.
Colossians 1:24-26 ESV
I’m polydisabled, and these tell me what I need to know to help me deal with the disabilities.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
H
heronimo
Guest
based on my observation why is that there are some people who had no disabilities?
G
GodLovesTheSpek
Guest
Perhaps they have none that are apparant becuase they carry their cross in silence. Perhaps they have a cross and do not know it. Perhaps they have a cross and ignore it. Perhaps their cross is yet to come.
B
buffalo
Guest
Adam and Eve were not created with preternatural gifts including freedom from suffering and illness as well as bodily immortality. Human bodily corruption is a result of the fall.
S
SimonArizona
Guest
Disability is not the greatest sorrow God allows. Blessings in disguise. I have observed that those who suffer for whatever reasons have better hearts than those who live in pleasure.
The path to the Kingdom of God is suffering.
“We shall also reign with Him (Jesus) if we suffer with Him.”
The path to the Kingdom of God is suffering.
“We shall also reign with Him (Jesus) if we suffer with Him.”
P
PennitentMan
Guest
Did you mean “were created?” Or “Were not created?” just clarifying, something doesn’t read right there….
Thinking of Adam and Eve does beg a few questions. (Not directed at buffalo)
Like
- Why were the whole human race punished for their first mistake? Not only were there no second chances, there was severe punishment for their first mistake. Not only in their immediate physical world, i.e. being banished, having to bear children through pain, working for food, pain, suffering and death, but their descendants were also punished for their sins, and not just to the 10th generation, still to this day.
- Why would God do that? Why would he create something, when he knows that they are going to fail. I understand free will and all, but go back one step further, why would he even begin creating us if he knows his first two subjects will err on their first trial, and then not only punish them but all human life on earth.
- Why did God not stay his hand? He must have seen that the result of the mistake will bring, what hardships will lie in wait for even the tiniest of innocent baby.
I saw a blind child the other day and I almost cried right there on the spot. What did that child do to deserve that? And don’t tell me that something good will come of it. That may be the case in some instances, but countless people and innocent children suffer without any good coming from it. I.E. War torn regions around the globe, food crisis spots, disabilities, etc.
It most certainly doesn’t sound like the merciful and loving god we hear about does it? And if we do decide to believe in him, why would you want to, seeing that he did all this, knowing how many would suffer and still went ahead?
As in my religious status, I’m an agnostic, but I tell ya one thing….if it turns out that there is a God, I have a bone to pick with him.
P
PennitentMan
Guest
So, even greater sorrows are allowed by the person who “loves” us the most.
Hidden very, very, super deep in disguise, with no explanation or clarification whatsoever…not even a hint or an appearance to their 5 senses that this person making them suffer is actually real.
Nah, I honestly can’t say that that I believe he is real.
B
buffalo
Guest
Sorry - were created
P
PennitentMan
Guest
No worries, dudeSorry - were created
G
GodLovesTheSpek
Guest
The greatest sorrow is permanent separation from He who is Truth and everlasting Joy. This separation would be by the person’s misapplication of free will to reject Him. God does not will us to separate from Him.
P
PennitentMan
Guest
Dude(I assume, otherwise I appologise
), I’ve never been happier! And now for ther first time things make logical sense.All the "why’s I had…the ones above and amriad more, can now eithe be explained, or rejected based on lack of evidence.
And for the record, I didn’t reject God because we have a Downs Syndromw baby, at that time we were still 100% faithful.
But, back to the topic at hand, from where I stand, disabilities are part of nature, and we know that nature can be cruel or kind, and doesn’t take favourites.
G
geometer
Guest
Disability may be a poor choice of words. I believe wholeheartedly that God loves diversity. And, I believe that there are many kinds of people.
For instance, the Irish wrote and made illustrations of Pixies and recently psychologists have discovered that some people actually are Pixies. Pixies have some abilities that normal people don’t have, and they also lack some normal abilities. Psychologists only say that they are disabled because of the abilites that they lack, and not for the special abilities that they have…
For instance, the Irish wrote and made illustrations of Pixies and recently psychologists have discovered that some people actually are Pixies. Pixies have some abilities that normal people don’t have, and they also lack some normal abilities. Psychologists only say that they are disabled because of the abilites that they lack, and not for the special abilities that they have…
P
PennitentMan
Guest
Many kinds of people, yes, like many races and many different characters, but when he creates some with less abilities than others, that’s not diversity, that’s prejudice and favouritism…
- Status