Why God is not only the creator?

[STT]

That is an essential point for you to understand. You cannot understand cosmological arguments or many others if you do not understand that.

You cannot traverse an infinite.

I see what do you mean with that now. How that is matter anyway? The beginning was at the point that the unstable energy burst so there is no logical problem.

 

[reggieM]

God: A being with the ability to create.

What do you mean by “create”?
Can you create something? Did you create this thread?

 

[reggieM]

The beginning was at the point that the unstable energy burst so there is no logical problem.

What came before the beginning?

 

[STT]

What do you mean by “create”?

The ability to cause something.

Can you create something?

Yes.

Did you create this thread?

Yes.

 

[STT]

What came before the beginning?

Time started at the beginning. There is no before beginning.

 

[reggieM]

God: A being with the ability to create.

You have the ability to create.
You are a being with the ability to create.
Therefore, you are … ?

 

[reggieM]

Time started at the beginning. There is no before beginning.

You are positing “a form of unstable energy (inflation theory) which existed before Big Bang”.

How long did that form of unstable energy exist before the Big Bang? What changes occured to it? Was it less stable at one point and more stable at another?
What caused it to explode?
How long did it exist before it exploded?

 

[STT]

You have the ability to create.
You are a being with the ability to create.
Therefore, you are … ?

I am a human being but we share some ability with God, if there is any.

 

[STT]

You are positing “a form of unstable energy (inflation theory) which existed before Big Bang”.

That is not my theory but you get the concept right.

How long did that form of unstable energy exist before the Big Bang?

There was no before until the energy burst.

What changes occured to it?

It burst.

Was it less stable at one point and more stable at another?

No, it was just unstable at the beginning.

What caused it to explode?

You don’t need a cause for explosion of something which is unstable.

How long did it exist before it exploded?

The point explosion and beginning coincide.

 

[reggieM]

There was no before until the energy burst.

The unstable energy was before, as you stated in your premise.

You don’t need a cause for explosion of something which is unstable.

You need a cause for unstable energy to exist at all.

The point explosion and beginning coincide.

Then there would not have been any unstable energy before, as you stated.

Aside from that, if the energy began to exist at a certain point - you are positing something coming into existence from nothing.

 

[STT]

The unstable energy was before, as you stated in your premise.

Yes, the unstable energy was before Big Bang but there was no before its burst.

You need a cause for unstable energy to exist at all.

You don’t really need that. It was just there.

Then there would not have been any unstable energy before, as you stated.

Yes, unstable energy was before Big Bang.

Aside from that, if the energy began to exist at a certain point - you are positing something coming into existence from nothing.

I am not positing that something come into existence from nothing. The unstable energy just was there at the beginning of time. The beginning of time and the burst coincide. There is no before before the beginning. We cannot get time out of nothing. I have an argument for that: Time is the fundamental variable of any dynamical theory therefore it cannot be an emergent phenomena of the same theory. This means that there exist not a dynamical theory with time as an emergent phenomena. Therefore time cannot be initiated or created. Time just has a beginning/starting point.

 

[reggieM]

I am not positing that something come into existence from nothing. The unstable energy just was there at the beginning of time. The beginning of time and the burst coincide. There is no before before the beginning. We cannot get time out of nothing. I have an argument for that: Time is the fundamental variable of any dynamical theory therefore it cannot be an emergent phenomena of the same theory. This means that there exist not a dynamical theory with time as an emergent phenomena. Therefore time cannot be initiated or created. Time just has a beginning/starting point.

If you have something that changes - unstable energy then burst, then you have time.

 

[STT]

If you have something that changes - unstable energy then burst, then you have time.

You cannot possibly have time before its beginning. The burst is at the initial point where time has started.

 

[reggieM]

You cannot possibly have time before its beginning. The burst is at the initial point where time has started.

If some physical entity (the unstable energy) existed before the burst, then time existed. If not, then the burst came from nothing. You would have to say that nothing caused it. Anything that began to exist, had a cause for its beginning.

 

[STT]

If some physical entity (the unstable energy) existed before the burst, then time existed.

There was no before the burst. Burst was the beginning. That is elegantly simple. The one of best idea has ever come to our mind.

If not, then the burst came from nothing.

Burst happened as a matter of logic, the initial energy was unstable. The burst was uncaused cause.

You would have to say that nothing caused it.

Yes, that is true. Nothing caused the burst.

Anything that began to exist, had a cause for its beginning.

Except the burst. There was some unstable stuff at the beginning.

 

[reggieM]

Yes, that is true. Nothing caused the burst.

Yes, you would say there is some unstable energy that came from nothing and nothing caused it to burst - and from that all of the ordered symmetry and ultimately human consciousness emerged.

Science could never validate that view and it remains illogical that someone could come from nothing.

Except the burst. There was some unstable stuff at the beginning.

Unstable stuff, you’re claiming, popped into existence from nothing - and then burst. Why that unstable stuff? Why doesn’t other things pop into existence from nothing?

 

[STT]

Yes, you would say there is some unstable energy that came from nothing and nothing caused it to burst - and from that all of the ordered symmetry and ultimately human consciousness emerged.

Consciousness cannot emerge as a result of form in matter. Matter should be conscious then. The formation of matter just allows different form of experience, in our case brain experiences a specific idea created by itself. The idea however should be in a form which is comprehensible intellectually by brain. Brain is constantly at the stage of creating the ideas.

Science could never validate that view and it remains illogical that someone could come from nothing.

We know that there is a correlation between brain activity and consciousness. You can stimulate a part of brain and cause hallucination.

Unstable stuff, you’re claiming, popped into existence from nothing - and then burst.

I didn’t say so.

Why that unstable stuff?

Because it does not need a reason to be burst. Its existence was sufficient for the burst.

Why doesn’t other things pop into existence from nothing?

I didn’t say so. I already argue that time cannot be initiated or created. That means that you cannot have nothing then something whether there is a God or not since nothing means no time too.

 

[reggieM]

I am a human being but we share some ability with God, if there is any.

You need a better definition of God then.
Simply saying “a being who creates” is not enough.

 

[STT]

You need a better definition of God then.
Simply saying “a being who creates” is not enough.

The difference between God and us is that we need to get mature to create an abstract idea, such as a priori knowledge, and verbally discuss it with others whereas God knows all abstract ideas.

 

[reggieM]

The difference between God and us is that we need to get mature to create an abstract idea, such as a priori knowledge, and verbally discuss it with others whereas God knows all abstract ideas.

Ok, that’s a bit better.
God is a being who creates and God knows all abstract ideas.
Anything else?