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setter
Guest
Why has the Church so miserably failed to inculcate and cultivate the faithful to embrace NFP? …and why should we expect that the stats will significantly improve?
Why has the Church so miserably failed to inculcate and cultivate the faithful to embrace NFP?
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marci
Guest
I don’t think that most of the hierarchy really believes couples need to use it, or at least they are afraid to meddle.
For me personally, I don’t see the difference between barrier methods and NFP. (I have had it exhaustively expained to me, and I still don’t get it).
NFP is not to be used forever. It is only to be used for a serious reason, such as sickness. When the serious situation passes, you are not to use it anymore. How many people using NFP use it as a means of not having anymore children even though there is no serious reason why they shouldn’t have more children? From what I’ve seen and read on these forums–alot.
For me personally, I don’t see the difference between barrier methods and NFP. (I have had it exhaustively expained to me, and I still don’t get it).
NFP is not to be used forever. It is only to be used for a serious reason, such as sickness. When the serious situation passes, you are not to use it anymore. How many people using NFP use it as a means of not having anymore children even though there is no serious reason why they shouldn’t have more children? From what I’ve seen and read on these forums–alot.
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surgei
Guest
Right on.
By the way, it was aposed by eminant bishops and cardinals even at the time it came out. Maximos IV openly stood against Paul VI. Chemical methods work primarily by abortificant method. The only way we would be able to tell if this was Ok or not was if we knew that their in fact was no soul there. The delayed infusion of the soul cannnot be proven so chemical methods are out.
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Exalt
Guest
Perhaps because they understand that most Catholics recognize the floppy, nearly incoherant reasoning behind NFP and the contraceptaphobia behind it?
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Sideline
Guest
Maybe because they realize it doesn’t work. Just a thought.
If it weren’t for NFP, my parents wouldn’t have had children. Except for those 4 times, it worked really well.
If it weren’t for NFP, my parents wouldn’t have had children. Except for those 4 times, it worked really well.
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marci
Guest
DITTO
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puzzleannie
Guest
why should the faithful embrace NFP wholesale? there are many reasonable arguments for accepting children as God’s gift, and trusting in God’s timing on this issue, without recourse to NFP (let alone to ABC). don’t you mean to say, why have not the faithful embraced Church teaching, which has been loud, long, constant at least before and during my 40 yrs of marriage, on sex, marriage, family and contraception? When people chose sin we don’t blame the agency who is preaching against the sin, we blame the sinner.
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surgei
Guest
Nope I think it was phrased how the OP wanted it.
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Petergee
Guest
It’s not the Church’s role to make people “embrace” NFP. NFP is not a moral good in itself, it is morally indifferent. The Church teaches people the moral truths, including that sexual intercourse must be open to life. If a couple has a moral reason for limiting their number of children, it is up to them to do so in a moral way - either by abstinence or by using any of the various forms of NFP.
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GandalfTheWhite
Guest
Are you suggesting that we Catholics have some kind of irrational, intense and persistent fear of contraceptives? Yes, wherever we see a condom we run and dive under the nearest table. You are being radiculous, you know?
The truth is that most Catholics who do not accept it have problems with many other teachings. Commonly they however do not understand why the Church doesn’t accept them and why She does things the way She does it.
Now, Exalt, you also said that the reasoning is incoherent. That can be said only if you know our reasoning and theology behind it. Please tell us what you know and why the reasoning is incoherent. You can start a new thread to enlighten us. Note, that telling us why you think this is ok won’t suffice.
Sometimes people think that NFP is a catholic way of contracepting. This is false. As was said by others, this method is not to be used unless absolutelly necessary. I think that for this reason it shouldn’t be ephasized as many would like it to - because it’s not to be used under normal circumstances.
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setter
Guest
It was not my intent to start a NFP bashing thread. I also am not suggesting a “wholesale” prescription for NFP as a form of “Catholic contraception”. I am referring to the nominal or regular church going “Catholic” couple, whether pre-marriage or married, who 1) Does not even know what the acronym NFP (or ABC) stands for, 2) Does not know of any/very few fellow Catholics who actually faithfully use NFP in their responsible family planning, or 3) Respond with a rolling eyes “you can’t be serious” response to the idea of NFP as a faithful and knowing response to God design and plan for married conjugal love, or 4) Those who have locked into distortion, myth or stopped short of the finish line of what the Church has consistently and actually teaches and why.
I repeat my question: Why has the Church so miserably failed to inculcate and cultivate the faithful to embrace NFP?..and why should we expect that the stats will significantly improve? Or are the faithful few to resign to the wholesale dissidence lifestye by our fellow Catholics who may or may not occupy the pews next to us each Sunday.
I repeat my question: Why has the Church so miserably failed to inculcate and cultivate the faithful to embrace NFP?..and why should we expect that the stats will significantly improve? Or are the faithful few to resign to the wholesale dissidence lifestye by our fellow Catholics who may or may not occupy the pews next to us each Sunday.
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1ke
Guest
I think you need to rephrase your question. Why have peopled failed to live up to what the Church teaches.
The Church teaches the Truth. It is then up to people to employ their free will.
Clearly, people are employing their free will to sin when they reject church teaching on this or any other moral law.
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1ke
Guest
I put the blame squarely where it belongs: on their parents.
Parents are the primary educators of their children in the faith. If their children approach the church for marriage still ignorant of the goods and requirements of marriage-- it’s their parents fault and their own fault.
What would you like “the Church” to do? Who, specifically is “the Church” you are talking about?
Probably.
We should set our light on the hill and not hide it in a bushel basket. It’s our job, as individual baptized Christians, to witness to those in darkness. “The Church” is an abstract concept and institution to most Catholics. We faithful in the pews can effect change by evangelizing.
Next year, I plan to head up NFP month-- which is in July by the way. Contact your priest and ask to celebrate NFP Awareness Month. Then contact your diocese to obtain all the posters and other materials.
Be the trendsetter, not the complainer asking what someone “else” is going to “do” about it.
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Petergee
Guest
I would add that Western society has in the past 50 years or so become so saturated with the “contraceptive mentality” which tereats sexual intercourse as just one more pleasurable activity with no essentiual meaning or connection. It’s very tempting for people to just go with the flow, go for the apparently easy pleasurable option and try to ignore the fact that it’s immoral. Some deliberately distort the Church’s teaching to try to rationilise their behaviour.
An additional factor is that many Church leaders have a “let’s fight abortion and other more imortant issues first” mentality and rarely if ever mention the fact that contraception is evil. IMO this is a mistake. The acceptance of contraception by the mass of Western society is the key to its commodification of sex and therefore its acceptance of all the other anti-life evils: divorce, fornication, adultery, sodomy, abortion, test-tube babies, surrogacy, same-sex “couples”, etc.
An additional factor is that many Church leaders have a “let’s fight abortion and other more imortant issues first” mentality and rarely if ever mention the fact that contraception is evil. IMO this is a mistake. The acceptance of contraception by the mass of Western society is the key to its commodification of sex and therefore its acceptance of all the other anti-life evils: divorce, fornication, adultery, sodomy, abortion, test-tube babies, surrogacy, same-sex “couples”, etc.
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surgei
Guest
If contraception leads to objectification, then those who do not contracept should not objectify. The leading group world wide who does not contracept is Islam. They do not contracept therefore they should be less likely to objectify wormen. The oposite is the case.
Could it be that the rise of objectification of persons is not do to contraception but other forms of technology. Theire are more things that have happened then the pronouncement of Human Life by Paul VI. Equating oposition to this non infallable teaching of the Church to degrading women is absurd.
Could it be that the rise of objectification of persons is not do to contraception but other forms of technology. Theire are more things that have happened then the pronouncement of Human Life by Paul VI. Equating oposition to this non infallable teaching of the Church to degrading women is absurd.
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hasikelee
Guest
I have contraceptaphobia. Thank goodness I found a mate who loves my body and cares for my health, and his future children’s health.
I feel very sorry for all those women who get stuffed full of harmful hormones because a man doesn’t want to abstain from sex for several days a month.
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1ke
Guest
Your logic is flawed. First, Islam does not prohibit contraception nor does it teach that contraception is wrong. Secondly, it favors large families but not for the reasons that the Christian faith does. Lastly, the religion itself teaches subjugation of women.
Contraception does more than objectify persons. It separates the unitive and procreative elements of sexual intercourse and seeks sex as an end rather than a means to an end.
You are mistaken regarding the infallible nature of the Church’s teaching on contraception.
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Julianna
Guest
Why do assume it’s the “man” who doesn’t want to abstain? Women are not shrinking violets.
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whatevergirl
Guest
Interesting thread. For me, I grew up in the faith…my parents passing away, however, caused what I believe to be a ‘gap’ in my faith formation. My sister didn’t practice the way my dad did, and if he hadn’t have died so early in my childhood development, perhaps I would have learned more of the RCC’s teachings on sexuality, and marriage. I didn’t learn about NFP until I was married, and I believe that we had valid reasons for using it, although both of our children were born while we were using it.
I still would like to think that we were not in tuned with the method, as much as we are going to be, now.
Having been on bc pills myself, and from not being brought up with much of an understanding of the Catechism for reasons I state above, I would like to see the Church do more for adults, by way of ‘adult religious courses.’ We can say math is available to kids too…why do they go to school? To be taught the proper methods, and to be able to ask questions. Just because the Catechism is available to us all, doesn’t mean that all of us have any idea where to begin.
I want to thank the developers of this website, and Karl Keating, because without his newsletter, I wouldn’t have come to this site, and without this site, I would not have started really ‘getting’ my faith, and learning of how to better live out our Catholic faith.
We are on a journey, people–faith isn’t a destination. Just my 2 cents.
I still would like to think that we were not in tuned with the method, as much as we are going to be, now.Having been on bc pills myself, and from not being brought up with much of an understanding of the Catechism for reasons I state above, I would like to see the Church do more for adults, by way of ‘adult religious courses.’ We can say math is available to kids too…why do they go to school? To be taught the proper methods, and to be able to ask questions. Just because the Catechism is available to us all, doesn’t mean that all of us have any idea where to begin.
I want to thank the developers of this website, and Karl Keating, because without his newsletter, I wouldn’t have come to this site, and without this site, I would not have started really ‘getting’ my faith, and learning of how to better live out our Catholic faith.
We are on a journey, people–faith isn’t a destination. Just my 2 cents.
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whatevergirl
Guest
And I’d like to add that contraception–the mind set isn’t really much about sex, per se. It’s not about ‘not being able to abstain,’ etc…maybe for some, but I would say the #1 reason people contracept, is because they fear having a baby. (basically the consequence or responsiblity of having a sexual relationship) That’s why condoms are soooo popular, because any teenager can walk in, and buy a pack, no questions asked. It’s easier than a girl having to get a script written for the pill, for example. Now, for married couples–contracpetion has been sold to us women as ‘it will help you fight against this or that cancer,’ etc…and thus, it has become very popular too.
But, in thinking back to my own use of contraception in my marriage–my husband and I were ‘afraid’ of having a baby at times in our marriage…maybe selfish reasons, maybe financial …whatever the reasons, we were fearful. It’s important to note this, because I think the only way that the Church can really get a hedge over the contracpetion world, is by teaching this concept. That being fearful is not how God wants us to live…We need to trust God for all aspects of our lives. He designed sex, and He will provide for us, always, when we follow His ways, and laws.
That is what needs to be taught. Abortion is also often a procedure that will alleviate a girl’s fears of having to deal with an unplanned pregnancy. (yet laden with a whole host of other consequences that she will have a lifetime to deal with)
Contraception and abortion are very close cousins, when it comes to fear. But, once my husband and I embraced (again) NFP recently, the fear has all but gone away, when it comes to our marital sexuality.
I am grateful that God enlightened me to this, recently…and again, to everyone here who talks about these topics, without candy coating.
But, in thinking back to my own use of contraception in my marriage–my husband and I were ‘afraid’ of having a baby at times in our marriage…maybe selfish reasons, maybe financial …whatever the reasons, we were fearful. It’s important to note this, because I think the only way that the Church can really get a hedge over the contracpetion world, is by teaching this concept. That being fearful is not how God wants us to live…We need to trust God for all aspects of our lives. He designed sex, and He will provide for us, always, when we follow His ways, and laws.
That is what needs to be taught. Abortion is also often a procedure that will alleviate a girl’s fears of having to deal with an unplanned pregnancy. (yet laden with a whole host of other consequences that she will have a lifetime to deal with)
Contraception and abortion are very close cousins, when it comes to fear. But, once my husband and I embraced (again) NFP recently, the fear has all but gone away, when it comes to our marital sexuality.I am grateful that God enlightened me to this, recently…and again, to everyone here who talks about these topics, without candy coating.
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