Why has the Church so miserably failed to inculcate and cultivate the faithful to embrace NFP?

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marci said:
I don’t think that most of the hierarchy really believes couples need to use it, or at least they are afraid to meddle.

For me personally, I don’t see the difference between barrier methods and NFP. (I have had it exhaustively expained to me, and I still don’t get it).

NFP is not to be used forever. It is only to be used for a serious reason, such as sickness. When the serious situation passes, you are not to use it anymore. How many people using NFP use it as a means of not having anymore children even though there is no serious reason why they shouldn’t have more children? From what I’ve seen and read on these forums–alot.
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I wanted to address this… I like your quote from the Pope at the bottom of your post but I challenge you that just like a Catholic cannot be a Socialist neither can a Catholic be against life. Barrier methods as you call them block life from happening, or in the case of pills abort life. We are as Catholics supposed to be open to life at all times. I don’t understand what part of being open to life you don’t understand? Please explain…

(If I seem blunt once again it’s not intentional it’s just me…)
 
hasikelee said:
I have contraceptaphobia. Thank goodness I found a mate who loves my body and cares for my health, and his future children’s health.

I feel very sorry for all those women who get stuffed full of harmful hormones because a man doesn’t want to abstain from sex for several days a month.
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In that they are abortificant half the time hormonal contraceptives are not moraly acceptable for use for any reason by sexually active couples. That does not make contraception itself bad.
BTW you live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world and unless you are making less than half the poverty line and have no assistance you are still wealthier than half the world whose meager lives are often made more difficult with large families.
 
KHI29 said:
I wanted to address this… I like your quote from the Pope at the bottom of your post but I challenge you that just like a Catholic cannot be a Socialist neither can a Catholic be against life. Barrier methods as you call them block life from happening, or in the case of pills abort life. We are as Catholics supposed to be open to life at all times. I don’t understand what part of being open to life you don’t understand? Please explain…

(If I seem blunt once again it’s not intentional it’s just me…)
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Would your husband sitting in a hot tub to shut down sperm production be acceptable to you? It’s natural. It uses the same knowledge of the body rational NFP uses.
 
KHI29 said:
Why has the Church so miserably failed to inculcate and cultivate the faithful to embrace NFP?

It does. There are some churches out there that push NFP. My church for example. **Real **Catholics practice either abstinence or NFP just as the Magistrate teaches…
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I guess you didn’t mean to say that the way it came out. There are millions of faithful, orthodox, married Real Catholics who practise neither abstinence nor NFP (which is really just periodic abstinence), but lovingly accept however many children God sends them without trying to limit the number.
 
KHI29 said:
a Catholic cannot be a Socialist
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Ahem, I am a 100% orthodox and obedient Catholic socialist. Again, I guess you didn’t mean this the way that it came out. Please try to choose your words more carefully.
 
surgei said:
Would your husband sitting in a hot tub to shut down sperm production be acceptable to you? It’s natural. It uses the same knowledge of the body rational NFP uses.
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The fact that you even ask this question shows that despite your claim to knowledge of the subject, you have not the first idea of the reasons why contraception is evil, as taught by the Church. Of course what you describe is attempted contraception - deliberately frustrating the body’s natural fertility. Just the same as if you took a “natural” herb to attempt to contracept. Whether it “works” or not is immaterial, the sin is in the intent to contracept.

OTOH, NFP makes no difference to anyone’s natural fertility at any time.
 
Petergee said:
The fact that you even ask this question shows that despite your claim to knowledge of the subject, you have not the first idea of the reasons why contraception is evil, as taught by the Church. Of course what you describe is attempted contraception - deliberately frustrating the body’s natural fertility. Just the same as if you took a “natural” herb to attempt to contracept. Whether it “works” or not is immaterial, the sin is in the intent to contracept.

OTOH, NFP makes no difference to anyone’s natural fertility at any time.
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However it is still retaining the pleasures of sex while frustrating the childbearing consaquence through entry to the chamber only being accepted at times of infertility. While you claim to be open to life you are only as willing to accept it as those that use barrier methods.
With five sisters two living mothers and an uncle that is an obgyn do you really doubt I know what NFP is.
 
Petergee said:
Ahem, I am a 100% orthodox and obedient Catholic socialist. Again, I guess you didn’t mean this the way that it came out. Please try to choose your words more carefully.
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“No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and a true Socialist.” Pius XI

This is a quote in the posting of one of the members here. Please read my posts in the context of which they are supposed to be read. Don’t get me wrong I mean everything I say, whatevergirl’s point was that I’m very blunt which I admitted to. That does not mean that I didn’t mean what I said.
 
surgei said:
However it is still retaining the pleasures of sex while frustrating the childbearing consaquence through entry to the chamber only being accepted at times of infertility. While you claim to be open to life you are only as willing to accept it as those that use barrier methods.
With five sisters two living mothers and an uncle that is an obgyn do you really doubt I know what NFP is.
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Not to disrespect your uncle, but most OBGYNs are poorly schooled in the Catholic teaching on NFP. Also, while pleasure is a wonderful byproduct of sex it has very little to do with its purpose.

Let me give a different frame of reference. Assuming you’re Catholic, would you ever go up to receive the Eucharist with a piece of duct tape across your mouth so there would be no way for the sacred host to get in? Instead of receiving the host you would simply put in in your pocket until a time when it was right for you. You wouldn’t do that because aside from looking silly you would also be terribly profaning the sacrament.

Contraception profanes the marital act. Instead of accepting your spouse’s fertility and cooperating with it, one rejects the spouse’s fertility as a desirable quality; indeed views it as a problem; actually views pregnancy as a consequence instead of a blessing; and turns the purpose of sex from self donation into self serving.
 
Petergee said:
I guess you didn’t mean to say that the way it came out. There are millions of faithful, orthodox, married Real Catholics who practise neither abstinence nor NFP (which is really just periodic abstinence), but lovingly accept however many children God sends them without trying to limit the number.
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As long as you’re not trying to block your seed from entering the woman, or spilling your seed outside of the woman the Church dosn’t have a problem with it. Practicing NFP to space out children is the acceptable way the Church teaches. So my original statement stands that real Catholics practice abstinence or NFP, or just to include everyone, accept however many children God gives them. As long as a Catholic is following one of these teachings then it’s acceptable.
By the way, yes once again, I did mean the way it came out…
 
surgei said:
However it is still retaining the pleasures of sex while frustrating the childbearing consaquence through entry to the chamber only being accepted at times of infertility. While you claim to be open to life you are only as willing to accept it as those that use barrier methods.
With five sisters two living mothers and an uncle that is an obgyn do you really doubt I know what NFP is.
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No. Couples that practice NFP are still open to life because there is a mutual understanding that they could still get pregnant if it’s Gods will. Using barrier methods are trying to block Gods will. BIG difference!
 
whatevergirl said:
You posted ‘real Catholics follow NFP…’ as though there is no room for someone to change…you have no idea why people are where they are in their faith. I think that it’s great to be a witness for your faith, but if you reread your post, it seems a little smug. "Real Catholics’ do this…and don’t do that. .
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he he… I’ve been bumped from first place in the abrasive and dogmatic category.

😃
 
KHI29 said:
Are you saying that I’m abrasive?! 😉
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Oh, for heaven’s sake, it was a joke. I have been, on occasion (and by Whatevergirl BTW), told that I was too black and white.

Yes, you are coming across very abrasive, and coming from me-- that is saying something.
 
Some good points

I]from TIME
Speaking the Truth is one thing, hitting them over the head with the CCC and saying “Bad, Café Catholic, Bad” may be less than productive. Any training in Communications will tell you “How you say something is just as important as what you say”.

I agree…to teach as Jesus did, I don’t recall him beating people over the head with dogma.

from Surgei
BTW you live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world and unless you are making less than half the poverty line and have no assistance you are still wealthier than half the world whose meager lives are often made more difficult with large families.

Excellent point…no insurance, no job, no education, not a good idea

fromKHI29
No. Couples that practice NFP are still open to life because there is a mutual understanding that they could still get pregnant if it’s Gods will. Using barrier methods are trying to block Gods will. BIG difference!

God’s will is stronger than any contraceptive. That I believe. If it is HIS will, pregnancy will happen irregardless.

I would also ask, looking around your church on Sunday, and noting couples married for let’s say 10 or more years, who have only 1 or 2 children…and as blunt as you are do you sometimes want to ask them if they are contracepting? If you found out that 1/4 of the women in your parish were using ABC and admitted it to your face…would you be as blunt as you are now?

In my former parish of 1500, there was only 1 family with 7 children. The average, (as a CCD teacher, I knew alot of the families through the years) number of children were 3.
 
1ke said:
Oh, for heaven’s sake, it was a joke. I have been, on occasion (and by Whatevergirl BTW), told that I was too black and white.

Yes, you are coming across very abrasive, and coming from me-- that is saying something.
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I take that as a compliment. It takes bigger rocks than this to hurt my feelings! 😃
 
1ke said:
he he… I’ve been bumped from first place in the abrasive and dogmatic category.

😃
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hee hee:D Aw, you were never abrasive, now. Dogmatic yes…and that is a very good thing.👍
 
1ke said:
Oh, for heaven’s sake, it was a joke. I have been, on occasion (and by Whatevergirl BTW), told that I was too black and white.

Yes, you are coming across very abrasive, and coming from me-- that is saying something.
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Yes–but she helped me, khp.🙂 She helped me to see the light. I don’t see the need however for anyone to put down another brother or sister in Christ–or make a person feel small. If we all were to lay our lives out right here on this board, we all could find things that another person ‘does wrong.’:cool: If someone is asking a question for help on here-let’s try not to judge the reasons the person is there…let’s just try to help him/her. No reason to candy coat–but judgement is God’s, not ours.

Ok…let’s all sing Merry Christmas now – holding hands!🙂
 
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