Why has the Church so miserably failed to inculcate and cultivate the faithful to embrace NFP?

[whatevergirl]

This is an interesting point. I am not sure myself that contraception leads to “abortion mentality.” Back in the 1950’s in Communist Russia, it was well known that Russian women had a lot of abortions because no other method of birth control was available to them.

Getting back to the original question, I am not sure how the Church would go about making sure everyone followed the rules about Natural Family Planning. Have they ever done this for any other sin? For example, are they going to make sure that men who abuse their wives know for sure that they are commiting a sin? Are they going to abolish Road Rage? Are they going to prevent people from getting a divorce for frivilous reasons? The list could go on and on.

It’s up to the individual to follow the teachings of the Church, if one is Catholic. The RCC is not a gestapo, much like God doesn’t force Himself upon us. God has given us the 10 Commandments, and the Church does expound upon them for us–thankfully. I think it’s rather remarkable that the RCC wants to be a steadfast unchanging guide (due to the grace of God) in a rapidly changing world. I think that as we grow older, what we should want is to align ourselves with God’s will for our lives, and His laws. Ultimately, when we look in the mirror (or don’t), we know if we have been sinning or not, and if we are adhering to what we believe are the Church’s teachings on sexuality, morals, etc…The Church is not here to instill fear …it’s here to dispel it, actually.

 

[surgei]

Glad to hear your uncle is up to speed. He is ahead of the curve for most OBGYNs. You seem to be inferring things into my statement. Pleasure is a part of sex, but not its ultimate end goal. If it was just about pleasure with the chance of getting pregnant now and again then the Church probably wouldn’t mind masturbation. But there is a far deeper meaning involved.

Disease? I never used that word. Perhaps you have me confused with another thread.

I would posit that the woman is never rejected with NFP at all but rather accepted wholly as she is and the act regarded as holy in and of itself.

It’s a difficult concept for anyone raised in our Western culture which proclaims a lie about the purpose of sex. Your frustration is quite understandable.

The ultimate putpose of the marital act is what Children? I think not. The ultimate purpose of the marital act is union with God through union with our fellow man. As such, the pleasure of marital union cannot be seen as anything other than integral and primary goal in the act as it is this pleasures likeness to the pleasure of the union with God that the Church put forth as one of the blessings to come.
Why is it that contraception was known to the ECF’s and yet they did not condemn it.
I think the need of marital union to produce children in the western mind is linked to their misunderstandings of the Trinity. Just a line I toss out there.
The eastern bishops are the ones who are bringing issue with contraception as well. They share little of the culture of the west that you claim is responsible for my point of view. Their objection was at Vatican II, and it continues to this day.

 

[hasikelee]

OCs are associated with a reduced risk of endometrial and ovarian cancer. This is one of the “benefits”. Sadly, little, if any attention, is given to the increased risk of cervical and breast cancer.

:bigyikes:

 

[hasikelee]

In that they are abortificant half the time hormonal contraceptives are not moraly acceptable for use for any reason by sexually active couples. That does not make contraception itself bad.
BTW you live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world and unless you are making less than half the poverty line and have no assistance you are still wealthier than half the world whose meager lives are often made more difficult with large families.

I am talking about hormonal contraceptives in my post, which have numerous risks and side effects.

 

[Al_Masetti]

When is the last time you heard prayers to the Holy Spirit … in church … or anywhere else, for that matter?

But that is the key … opening ourselves up to the Holy Spirit.

… Lord, make me the way You want me to be …

 

[StCsDavid]

The eastern bishops are the ones who are bringing issue with contraception as well. They share little of the culture of the west that you claim is responsible for my point of view. Their objection was at Vatican II, and it continues to this day.

I think you would be hard pressed to identify a pan-Orthodox position document on birth control. It really depend which eastern church in which country you’re in. They have no consensus on the issue.

In 1968 Pope Paul VI wrote the encyclical letter Humanae Vitae in which he reaffirmed the Church’s rejection of contraception. After reviewing the encyclical, the Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras wrote to the Pope to assure him of the Orthodox Church’s “total agreement” with the encyclical’s contents. In his telegram to the Pope he wrote:

“We assure you that we remain close to you, above all in these recent days when you have taken the good step of publishing the encyclical Humanae Vitae. We are in total agreement with you, and wish you all God’s help to continue your mission in the world.”

That doesn’t look like they had a problem with it to me.

 

[Petergee]

“No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and a true Socialist.” Pius XI

I think you’ll find it was Pius IX, not Pius XI who lived 100 years later. He also condemned “Liberalism”, and the idea “that the Church should be separated from the State”. You need to read these words and phrases in the cultural context of early 19th century Europe. Obviously a Catholic cannot be a Marxist, which is what you apparently meant. But there are millions of sincere orthodox Catholics who are socialists (i.e. believe that many major and essential community services should be provided by the State so that all can afford to use them.)

This is a quote in the posting of one of the members here. Please read my posts in the context of which they are supposed to be read. Don’t get me wrong I mean everything I say, whatevergirl’s point was that I’m very blunt which I admitted to. That does not mean that I didn’t mean what I said.

You said that a Catholic cannot be a socialist. There was nothing in the context to modify this assertion. If you are claiming you were merely throwing somneone else’s words back at him as a riposte, why did you then back up your assertion with your quote from Pius “XI”?

 

[Petergee]

This is an interesting point. I am not sure myself that contraception leads to “abortion mentality.” Back in the 1950’s in Communist Russia, it was well known that Russian women had a lot of abortions because no other method of birth control was available to them.

Sorry that’s a non sequitur. The “contraceptive mentality” is the idea that people should use contraceptives if they can. Whetehr contraceptives are available or not is immaterial. The fact that the USSR had a high abortion rate proves that there was a contraceptive mentality. Though of course many people were under duress to abort/contracept by the atheist government.

Getting back to the original question, I am not sure how the Church would go about making sure everyone followed the rules about Natural Family Planning. Have they ever done this for any other sin? For example, are they going to make sure that men who abuse their wives know for sure that they are commiting a sin? Are they going to abolish Road Rage? Are they going to prevent people from getting a divorce for frivilous reasons? The list could go on and on.

Good point. For some reason this is the only sin for which some people consider it’s the church’s fault if people choose to disobey its teachings.

 

[setter]

The ultimate putpose of the marital act is what Children? I think not.

Personal opinion.

The ultimate purpose of the marital act is union with God through union with our fellow man. As such, the pleasure of marital union cannot be seen as anything other than integral and primary goal in the act as it is this pleasures likeness to the pleasure of the union with God that the Church put forth as one of the blessings to come.

Applying this version of the “Theology of the Body”, then the begetting and education of children is a secondary consequence and by-product that is subservient to the “good” of seeking sexual pleasure …this fits quite well with the prevailing secular ethos.

 

[setter]

Getting back to the original question, I am not sure how the Church would go about making sure everyone followed the rules about Natural Family Planning. Have they ever done this for any other sin? For example, are they going to make sure that men who abuse their wives know for sure that they are commiting a sin? Are they going to abolish Road Rage? Are they going to prevent people from getting a divorce for frivilous reasons? The list could go on and on.

Not all sin is equal or posses such a fundamental attack on the dignity of the person or integrity of the marriage covenant.

Do you not agree that widespread rejection of NFP by Catholics is epidemic and a fundamental stumbling point for the growth of individuals and couples in personal sanctification and holiness of life?

 

[setter]

What I am gleaming from some of the posters, the solution for a greater embrace of NFP by Catholics is two fold – 1) Get the teachers and preachers of the Church on base and courageous enough to regularly and publically share the good news of NFP as the positive way for responsibly seeking to limit (and achieve) pregnancy, and 2) Begin a personal and public testimony blitz of faithful NFP practicing couples to bring credibility to the beauty of the Church’s teaching.

 

[1ke]

What I am gleaming from some of the posters, the solution for a greater embrace of NFP by Catholics is two fold – 1) Get the teachers and preachers of the Church on base and courageous enough to regularly and publically share the good news of NFP as the positive way for responsibly seeking to limit (and achieve) pregnancy, and 2) Begin a personal and public testimony blitz of faithful NFP practicing couples to bring credibility to the beauty of the Church’s teaching.

Well, the USCCB endorses NFP Awareness Week each July. Diocese have Family Life and NFP Offices with information and instructor listings. NFP classes are published in parish bulletins and many parishes offer the classes onsite. NFP instructors speak at marriage prep classes. Some dioceses require the entire NFP course during marriage prep.

I think “the Church” does promote NFP. I think individual parishes and individual people must do more. “The Church” has given us the tools to evangelize, but we are the Church and we must take this ministry to others.

 

[whatevergirl]

Well, the USCCB endorses NFP Awareness Week each July. Diocese have Family Life and NFP Offices with information and instructor listings. NFP classes are published in parish bulletins and many parishes offer the classes onsite. NFP instructors speak at marriage prep classes. Some dioceses require the entire NFP course during marriage prep.

I think “the Church” does promote NFP. I think individual parishes and individual people must do more. “The Church” has given us the tools to evangelize, but we are the Church and we must take this ministry to others.

Excellent points!

 

[surgei]

I think you would be hard pressed to identify a pan-Orthodox position document on birth control. It really depend which eastern church in which country you’re in. They have no consensus on the issue.

In 1968 Pope Paul VI wrote the encyclical letter Humanae Vitae in which he reaffirmed the Church’s rejection of contraception. After reviewing the encyclical, the Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras wrote to the Pope to assure him of the Orthodox Church’s “total agreement” with the encyclical’s contents. In his telegram to the Pope he wrote:

“We assure you that we remain close to you, above all in these recent days when you have taken the good step of publishing the encyclical Humanae Vitae. We are in total agreement with you, and wish you all God’s help to continue your mission in the world.”

That doesn’t look like they had a problem with it to me.

I never said there was concensus of the Orthodox. I was pointing out the lack of concensus among the Catholics of the east and now even in the west.
As for Athenegoras is but one bishop. even though he was an esteamed bishoop from a great city, he did not and could not speak for all of us.

 

[surgei]

Applying this version of the “Theology of the Body”, then the begetting and education of children is a secondary consequence and by-product that is subservient to the “good” of seeking sexual pleasure …this fits quite well with the prevailing secular ethos.

I put the quote up there to ask, are you saying I am a gnostic, or are you knocking the Orthodox view of the body being a means to union with God. What do you mean by “Theology of the Body”.
I’ll take the ping in the quote though in the rest of the post though.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Because so many clergy have no backbone and are afraid to save souls.

 

[mark_a]

I’ve noticed that our local priests usually don’t beat us over the head with nfp during the Sunday homily. Which is ok by me. We hear more about nfp from visiting priests and retreat priests during the homily than from our regular priests.

One of our local priests did give a few sermons about the need for nfp and had several women screaming at him, telling him that priests need to clean up their own act, etc. I congratulated him on the sermon and he almost keeled over.

Some priests bring up the subject of nfp during confession. This approach is a good idea because if a person is “Catholic” enough to go to confession, their are probably more likely to be open about the evils of contraception.

 

[hasikelee]

You have no idea how many people will tell you their private business without provocation. Really, ettiquette is a lost art.

Not to mention that those who don’t see anything wrong with it also don’t see anything wrong with talking about it.

I had to listen to two coworkers talk about their BCPs back-and-forth between the two of them-- right in front of me-- last time I was in the office.

Ugh, yes! Work seems to be synonymous with “tell my manager all my personal info”

I never bring up or start any conversations on anything other than work.

Yet all day long people come to me and blabber about this sex position or that birth control, or this scare or that issue. Aghhh

 

[1ke]

Ugh, yes! Work seems to be synonymous with “tell my manager all my personal info”

I never bring up or start any conversations on anything other than work.

Yet all day long people come to me and blabber about this sex position or that birth control, or this scare or that issue. Aghhh

Yes, the two women do report to me. Ugh!

The only time I didn’t mind the personal tragedy on parade was when a manager who reported to me came to me upset b/c her 19 yo son got a girl pregnant and they were contemplating an abortion. I loaded her up with my pro-life literature… which just happened to reside in the trunk of my car for Saturday sidewalk counseling.

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes, the two women do report to me. Ugh!

The only time I didn’t mind the personal tragedy on parade was when a manager who reported to me came to me upset b/c her 19 yo son got a girl pregnant and they were contemplating an abortion. I loaded her up with my pro-life literature… which just happened to reside in the trunk of my car for Saturday sidewalk counseling.

You have me curious, 1ke…Saturday sidewalk counseling? Literally?