Why has the West lost Christ?

[jam070406]

“All the evils of the world are due to lukewarm Catholics” - Pius V

 

[Seamus_L]

It’s a rather odd comment from Dostoyevsky. Certainly there were places in the West where people were becoming increasingly anti-clerical in his time, but it was occuring in his own country as well. I imagine that someone in the US, Ireland, Portugal in the 1930’s, etc could have just as easily asked “Why has the East lost Christ” ?

 

[mathematoons]

These are all good answers (except for “no evidence”), but I’m wondering how these came about. Why are we so much more selfish now, for example?

Individualism is a good one. Perhaps it comes from Protestantism and the rise of democracy? Affluence is a good one as well. Since this came from technological advances, which came from science, perhaps the medieval Muslim philosopher al-Ghazzali was right when he said that science and faith cannot coexist. Maybe Catholics need to live like the Amish.

This, of course, brings up the question of why the Church did not forbid these things. Surely God knew what would happen, just like with birth control?

 

[TimothyH]

The West may have lost Christ, but the South hasn’t. On the contrary, the Catholic Church will be the biggest Chruch Atlanta, beating out the Southern Baptists, within the next six years. From Raleigh NC to Greenville and Charlston SC, to Atlanta to Birmingham AL, the new fertile crescent, we can’t build Churches and Catholic Schools fast enough. We have to literally ship Church buildings to the South to keep up with the demand. I’m not kidding - see whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2008/10/church-moves-south-literally.html

"Hotlanta" from Rocco Palmo:whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2009/06/hotlanta-grain-once-scattered-now.html

Record Number in Rite of Election:http://www.georgiabulletin.org/local/2010/03/04/riteofelection/

Fifteen New Permanent Deacons: georgiabulletin.org/local/2010/02/18/deacons_ordained/

The demand for Catholic schools is growing mostly because the flock itself is increasing. A decade ago there were about 311,000 Catholics in the metro Atlanta area, according to the Archdiocese of Atlanta, now there are about 850,000. Read More…

Y’all come down! The weather is mighty fine.

-Tim-

 

[corsair]

Great news, TimothyH. I read your other thread. Perhaps the new Missal will spur even more. You even have an FSSP parish, I’m told.

I guess the “south will rise again”. God Bless!!!

 

[passer_by]

We are selfishly seeking more entertainment for the self, which causes more people to be intolerant of marriage and responsible parenthood, which creates more dependents on the State, which weakens nations due to the sum of all the individual selfishness. NO birth control was our saving grace that forced most people to grow up and mature since we were going to work hard for pennines and do whatever it took to see our kids survive. But now that we can choose birth control for more casual sex, witness the slow dying and de-evolution of populations due to individual selfishness.

That was an interesting line of thought.

 

[passer_by]

These are all good answers (except for “no evidence”), but I’m wondering how these came about. Why are we so much more selfish now, for example?

Individualism is a good one. Perhaps it comes from Protestantism and the rise of democracy? Affluence is a good one as well. Since this came from technological advances, which came from science, perhaps the medieval Muslim philosopher al-Ghazzali was right when he said that science and faith cannot coexist. Maybe Catholics need to live like the Amish.

This, of course, brings up the question of why the Church did not forbid these things. Surely God knew what would happen, just like with birth control?

I think there is honestly nothing wrong with Science and Religion together. My work and studies have been in the Applied Sciences and I have honestly had no problem with my religion as a result.

So I think the actual problem was individualism. It is all about doing what is good for oneself. The ME and it’s success is emphasized more from a young age. The most successful individualist won’t make a good parent or a good priest (probably wouldn’t even want to be one).

It was only a matter of time till the person bathed in individualism started realizing that although to be married and with kids was considered successful, it did not benefit him in terms of pleasure, happiness and financial success much. So then he goes after the those who promote the social idea that such things are a good which leads them in turn to oppose religion. Then they either turn to Scientism or Positivism, or people who are Catholics just join a Protestant church or some other religious group that support such actions in their religion.

So it all comes down to hatred of religion due to rooted individualism. It is all about doing what is best for oneself. Since religion seems to be the only thing hindering earthly success in terms of financial matters, pleasure etc. one decides that it must definitely be false or out dated. Then they try to use everything from Science to bad logical arguments to get rid of Religion.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

These are all good answers (except for “no evidence”), but I’m wondering how these came about. Why are we so much more selfish now, for example?

Individualism is a good one. Perhaps it comes from Protestantism and the rise of democracy? Affluence is a good one as well. Since this came from technological advances, which came from science, perhaps the medieval Muslim philosopher al-Ghazzali was right when he said that science and faith cannot coexist. Maybe Catholics need to live like the Amish.

This, of course, brings up the question of why the Church did not forbid these things. Surely God knew what would happen, just like with birth control?

You can use anything in an immoral fashion. You can use a sharp knife in the kitchen to cut up your food, and you can use it to cut their throat. You can use a dam to store water for dry times, and you can use it to stop people downstream getting their fair share of water. You can use nuclear power to create energy so people can live more easily or you can use it to destroy millions. You can use the contraceptive pill within marriage (as endorsed by both the original and expanded committees set up by John XXIII) or you can use it to encourage fornication outside marriage.

 

[christmasgifts]

I would like to bookmark the page so I can come back here to read that you did a great job.
backyard games

 

[wisdomseeker]

I just read a quote from Dostoevsky saying, “The West has lost Christ. For that reason alone, it is dying.” He wrote that in the 19th century!

I agree with this assessment. Things have only gotten much worse. My question is, why do you think the West has lost Christ?

There are some bad phylosophies going around in colleges from atheists. Capitalism which focus on money and work. The reason for people to work so much is motivated by the love of money, and people have without realizing replaced God with money. Just think about it. with women and man working all the time, they no longer have time to go to Church, to hear the Word of God, and celebrates our feast days, all this has been forgotten for the sake of jobs.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

There are some bad phylosophies going around in colleges from atheists. Capitalism which focus on money and work. The reason for people to work so much is motivated by the love of money, and people have without realizing replaced God with money. Just think about it. with women and man working all the time, they no longer have time to go to Church, to hear the Word of God, and celebrates our feast days, all this has been forgotten for the sake of jobs.

What’s wrong with working hard and contributing to society ?

 

[wisdomseeker]

What’s wrong with working hard and contributing to society ?

Of course all this is pleasing to you.

 

[vsedriver]

Wealth. It has become a god to western society. The pursuit of wealth makes it hard to pursue Christ.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

So much hate for individualism and capitalism. I don’t understand it. Neither of these are necessarily materialist. We really need to make a distinction between individualism and materialism. They are definitely not the same thing. One can advocate free markets and be a Catholic. There’s nothing wrong with it. The perversion of materialism, though, now that is the problem.

 

[skategurl1102]

The west has become so secular.I have known many Christians who left their faith b/c they don’t agree with the churchs’ views on homosexuality,gay marriage,abortion,etc.The media is also to blame.From politicians to celebrities or anyone in power who use their money/image to push their anti-biblical views.

 

[bobrec]

You can use anything in an immoral fashion. You can use a sharp knife in the kitchen to cut up your food, and you can use it to cut their throat. You can use a dam to store water for dry times, and you can use it to stop people downstream getting their fair share of water. You can use nuclear power to create energy so people can live more easily or you can use it to destroy millions. You can use the contraceptive pill within marriage (as endorsed by both the original and expanded committees set up by John XXIII) or you can use it to encourage fornication outside marriage.

I don’t know where you got the idea that the contraception is permitted by the Catholic Church. It is considered intrinsically evil and forbidden by Canon Law.

%between%

 

[Melchior_1]

You can use the contraceptive pill within marriage (as endorsed by both the original and expanded committees set up by John XXIII) or you can use it to encourage fornication outside marriage.

Proof. Provide it.

 

[CopticChristian]

I just read a quote from Dostoevsky saying, “The West has lost Christ. For that reason alone, it is dying.” He wrote that in the 19th century!

I agree with this assessment. Things have only gotten much worse. My question is, why do you think the West has lost Christ?

The OT is filled with stories of the people of Israel abandoning God…God stayed put till they came back…the West may have turned their back…like the Prodigal son…the West can return…God is immutable, Christ is the Son…and he sent the paraclete to remind and somehow they forgot…God still knows all and sees all…the paradigm is the cup 1/2 full or 1/2 empty…not where did Christ go…where did the West go?

 

[CopticChristian]

You can use anything in an immoral fashion. You can use a sharp knife in the kitchen to cut up your food, and you can use it to cut their throat. You can use a dam to store water for dry times, and you can use it to stop people downstream getting their fair share of water. You can use nuclear power to create energy so people can live more easily or you can use it to destroy millions. **You can use the contraceptive pill within marriage (as endorsed by both the original and expanded committees set up by John XXIII) **or you can use it to encourage fornication outside marriage.

Elaborate so that I may understand where in my learning I have a faulty understanding of Birth Control. I believe that the Church teaches it is evil and here you say our OHCAC says it is OK. Please inform me so that I may properly believe and instruct others.

 

[mjakemccoy]

I just read a quote from Dostoevsky saying, “The West has lost Christ. For that reason alone, it is dying.” He wrote that in the 19th century!

I agree with this assessment. Things have only gotten much worse. My question is, why do you think the West has lost Christ?

Great question. I’d make the case that it started with a steady decline in the Reformation with the Separation of Church & State. Reformers didn’t want the pope interferring with kings, the kings were “liberated” from the church. They began to start their own churches. In the enlightenment commoners rebelled against the kings and started founding all their own churches. This is where the notion of freedom of religion/conscience came about. The Feudal System dominated the west until the Reformation. Capitalism gained acceptance in the west following the reformation, and Communism gained acceptance in the east. Christian empires fell to the will of the people. The Church was removed from government, philosophy, science, etc. Without the “pillar of truth” involved in our civilizations doors were opened for the likes of Darwin and Marx. The old regimes were certainly not perfect, there were corruptions. However I’ve read income taxes were never higher than 10%. Divorce, Abortion, and homosexuality were not permitted in these civilizations.

Our Lord told us we could not serve two masters, but we continually fight for freedom in the west. What freedom are we fighting for? Is it freedom to proclaim the Gospel, or is it freedom from the Gospel? History is a vivid picture. One rebellion has led to another. Christ also told us a “house divided cannot stand”. Today there are roughly 40,000 Protestant denominations with little continuity in doctrine. Division in Christianity is becoming a grave matter. It should be no surprise that the divisions in the west have not aided the propogation of the Gospel. I do not speak to condemn anyone, but I’m seeking unity among all Christians. This unity can only be reached in the church Christ himself started 2,000 years ago. I speak of the Catholic Church, the church that every Protestant denomination came from. Our doors are always opened. Please pray for unity.