Why Hostility for the Latin Mass?

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I know first hand of a priest who refuses to do the latin mass, why, I couldn’t tell you, I can only take a guess from knowing the man that it would be too much to learn and cause too much of a hassle for him. But he was always more than eager to fund raise for unimportant things that didn’t have any impact on those in need in the community.
Quite frankly, no priest should be put in the position of having to defend their preference to say Mass in the vernacular. Period. I find it incredibly disrespectful and almost cowardly do cast dispersions on any priest who dosn’t want to say Latin Mass.

I learned Latin from a very devout priest who didn’t like saying Latin Mass and would refuse to if at all possible. His logic, he so kindly shared with us is that the rote memorization distracted him from the sacrifice of the Mass.

Now, if a reverent Latin scholar who took his time out to teach Latin to children at an afterschool program struggles with that, then why press a priest, an ordinary man, as to why he refueses?

Do we not allow our priests the dignity that we would expect to be given to anyone else when they state a personal preference?
 
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
I think because they “see” a difference and make assumptions about the legitimacy of the Mass.
I don’t think that’s the case. I just genuinely believe that there was a richer symbolism and tradition which has been lost to an extent. And I think there is also a greater opportunity for catechesis and evangelisation to be had from a more traditional mass.
Yeah, no. There’s tons of value to a well done OF mass. It highlights different but valuable parts of the Church. It is not simply a stripped down Mass, but one that has different priorities for different points of catechesis.
 
Reverence is a personal disposition and subject to emotion and feelings.
Not necessarily. Pope Emeritus Benedics XVI spoke of the reception of the Eucharist on the tongue while kneeling as being more objectively reverent than standing and getting it in the hand.
 
Another pet peeve: more traditional Mass.
The Mass itself was given to us and Christ commanded that we do it.
It goes beyond “tradition”.
It has survived from the time of the Last Supper. Can’t get more traditional than that.
It’s difficult to explain the Latin Mass to children who have never ever heard a word of Latin beyond form their vocabulary textbooks in grammar school. As a 20 year+ DRE, I know all too well that we get kids in Religious Ed classes for about 4 years total: the 2 years they need to receive First Eucharist, and the 2 years prep they need for Confirmation. Beyond that, their parents just don’t bring them. To Catechesis or Mass. I’m not going to spend time explaining the intricacies of the Latin Mass to kids who hardly know their rote prayers, can’t seem to remember all 7 Sacraments and have never heard of the Spiritual and Corporal works of mercy.
That’s the state of youth ministry, A brief window, loads to cram in, about the Mass itself, and what we believe, how they should live. It’s tough. Really tough.

That said: the Real Presence is in the OF as well.
That’s the essence of the tradition.
Christ said He would be there in the Eucharist, and He is.
 
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If anyone wants to pin the blame somewhere for the development of the term “Novus Ordo”…it was originated by none other than the architect of the liturgy in question, Annibale Bugnini. He dubbed it the Novus Ordo Missae, and that title appears on the first copies of the Ordinary published in the late 60s, before the complete Missal appeared in 1970.

It wasn’t invented by those nasty traditionalists. Bugnini invented it.
 
Now, if a reverent Latin scholar who took his time out to teach Latin to children at an afterschool program struggles with that, then why press a priest, an ordinary man, as to why he refueses?
In my opinion learning a vast amount of Latin would be useful if the homily were in Latin, which it’s not. The EF has only about 600 unique Latin words and many of them can be figured out without translation. Unless one is talking about the Offertory Prayers but then the 1970 Missal eliminated them anyway so they must not have been too important.
 
Another pet peeve: more traditional Mass.
The Mass itself was given to us and Christ commanded that we do it.
It goes beyond “tradition”.
It has survived from the time of the Last Supper. Can’t get more traditional than that.
It’s difficult to explain the Latin Mass to children who have never ever heard a word of Latin beyond form their vocabulary textbooks in grammar school. As a 20 year+ DRE, I know all too well that we get kids in Religious Ed classes for about 4 years total: the 2 years they need to receive First Eucharist, and the 2 years prep they need for Confirmation. Beyond that, their parents just don’t bring them. To Catechesis or Mass. I’m not going to spend time explaining the intricacies of the Latin Mass to kids who hardly know their rote prayers, can’t seem to remember all 7 Sacraments and have never heard of the Spiritual and Corporal works of mercy.
That’s the state of youth ministry, A brief window, loads to cram in, about the Mass itself, and what we believe, how they should live. It’s tough. Really tough.

That said: the Real Presence is in the OF as well.
That’s the essence of the tradition.
Christ said He would be there in the Eucharist, and He is.
I don’t think things were all that much better for Children when children did learn Latin. I cannot tell you how many old men who I met who “alter serve” with great joy at weekday Masses because they were denied in their youth because they were not proficient enough at Latin. As boys these men were good students, boy scouts, top of their Catholic school classes and even top of their Baltimore Catechism class. In all respects an altar server that most priests today would give their right arm for.

Yet things like that occurred at every parish. If even the best children struggled to know enough Latin to follow along, than what about everyone else?
 
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Now, if a reverent Latin scholar who took his time out to teach Latin to children at an afterschool program struggles with that, then why press a priest, an ordinary man, as to why he refueses?
In my opinion learning a vast amount of Latin would be useful if the homily were in Latin, which it’s not. The EF has only about 600 unique Latin words and many of them can be figured out without translation. Unless one is talking about the Offertory Prayers but then the 1970 Missal eliminated them anyway so they must not have been too important.
See, you are failing to understand the crux of the matter. Memorization, for at least this priest, and I’d give a fair gamble many others, takes away from their focus on the sacrifice. Similar and deciphering is not the same, not nearly at all. I know enough Spanish to get by helping a customer shop. Because I know just that little Spanish I can decipher Portuguese. But that would still make me a poor attendant to really understanding them.

My point is that is highly grandiose to declare a priest somehow inept or bad because he refuses to say a Latin Mass. The priest, like the laity, are allowed preferences. In this case, given a reverent priest, it is incredibly disrespectful to push for a further answer when he says no.
 
Yes but if they read the Baltimore Catechism, then they might have accepted it better.

Q. 566. Why does the Church use the Latin language instead of the national language of its children?

A. The Church uses the Latin language instead of the national language of its children:
  1. To avoid the danger of changing any part of its teaching in using different languages;
  2. That all its rulers may be perfectly united and understood in their communications;
  3. To show that the Church is not an institute of any particular nation, but the guide of all nations.
 
True. Actually there are valid cultural reasons in certain parts of the world, that make the Latin Mass and Language a better choice in some places. In parts of Africa, for example, the cultural situation is such that the only thing uniting certain tribes was the attendance of mass in Latin. The use of the vernacular led to certain groups being seen as favoured over others and being a source of division, while the Latin was a symbol that they were united in faith.
 
Some prefer chocolate; some vanilla. The question was asked and some answered why. Some believe the more reverent Masses offer more graces. When receiving the most Holy Eucharist from a Eucharistic minister, without a Communion-plate pieces of Jesus could fall to the floor…and I know no one wants to step on Him. To me…THIS matters.
 
I had a chat with my mom (born in 1929, parents born 1885 and 1890) last night. I asked her a bit about her memories of the Mass, her childhood (she spent some years in Catholic elementary school but had to attend public schools often as the family moved a lot up and down the East Coast in the 1930s and 40s. Of course that also meant she experienced a lot of different Catholic parishes).

She remarked that in her experience (again, they moved practically every year and both public and Catholic schools had a lot more students per class then than now, so she knew a lot of people over the years) any child who was Catholic had parents or other family who went (and who themselves had been ‘schooled’ by their parents, etc. etc going back generations) to Mass, who followed the Mass, who had no difficulty understanding the Mass. She said the students had Catholic readers and all who had made First Communion had missals (usually Latin/English but often Latin/French, Latin/German, etc., and THOSE often came from the families, handed down) which showed the pictures of what happened at Mass and gave the ‘English’ to the Latin. She said that even though students might not go on to study Latin in high school that they listened and read and learned. She said that nobody was ‘too poor’ to have a missal or a reader; the readers were paid for by the school but often there were extras given out for good marks or good conduct, and the nuns and priests knew the families who might have trouble with anything from having a communion outfit to school supplies to lunch, and made sure that those who needed had just as much as those who could afford them.

Oh, and for the record, she cannot remember ever just ‘mumbling rosaries’ nor seeing anybody else doing so!! Nor does she remember the anecdotal vacant uncomprehending stares, the ‘rushed priests’. . .OR people who, upon the change to ‘vernacular’, turning cartwheels down the aisle saying, “At last I understand, down with Atin-lay orever-fay!” She herself regards the EF with great affection, but it’s not as if a preference of the EF means that we somehow like the OF LESS, because we don’t.

If there’s a choice between a yummy plain cheesecake and a 3 layer chocolate cake with buttercream frosting, both of those deserts are made with the finest ingredients. Both are rich in their own right. Both have a fullness and perfection. One might appeal to those who like a simple, austere, yet very ‘American-made’ association (cheesecake). The other might appeal to those who are chocoholics, like the ‘celebratory’ aspect of a cake, and like the contrast of dense cake and melty frosting (the cake). In a lot of places in America, the cake is most ‘traditional’ and would be associated with nostalgia; the cheesecake would be seen as ‘newer’ and perhaps more ‘exciting’.

Are we really so petty that we would cheerfully accept (if we like cheesecake best) that others prefer chocolate (or vice versa), yet we cannot accept fellow Catholics who prefer one style slightly more when it comes to two equally valid rites?
 
Yes but if they read the Baltimore Catechism, then they might have accepted it better.

Q. 566. Why does the Church use the Latin language instead of the national language of its children?

A. The Church uses the Latin language instead of the national language of its children:
  1. To avoid the danger of changing any part of its teaching in using different languages;
  2. That all its rulers may be perfectly united and understood in their communications;
  3. To show that the Church is not an institute of any particular nation, but the guide of all nations.
:roll_eyes:

I stated they were best in class at their BC so I’m sure they read it.

The issue here isn’t the use of Latin, but rather, the fact that it caused division and struggles even in its heyday.

Understanding the importance of Latin and being refused from altar server duty (yes, a privilege) are still two very different things. I am simply stating a flaw that regularly occured when TLM was the norm. These boys were not asking for a grand favor, they wanted to have the honor of serving at the altar. I don’t think it’s all that difficult to empathize with an otherwise well rounded-intelligent child
 
I’m coming in late here and can’t afford the time to read all the posts. Hoping that “hostility for the Latin Mass” is an exaggeration.

I personally have an appreciation for the Mass in Latin, being pre Vatican II, but my preference is for English. If I had ready access to both, I think I would (probably very) occasionally attend the Latin.

Up for a light hearted story?

My brothers were altar servers. When the time came for the older to train the the younger in his duties, he took his responsibility very seriously.

One morning, likely after a vigorous training session the previous evening, the little guy groaned pitifully to Mom: “I don’t think I can go to school today, 😧 my tummy hurts. I think I pounded my mea culpa too hard.”

:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:😁😂🤣
 
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Hate may be too strong of a word to use but I don’t think it is far from the mark.
I think you might be trying to play the liturgical martyr when there really is no grave threat or attack.

I think it would be extremely difficult to find anyone that was seriously against the celebration of the EF Mass. The reverse is not true. A very high percentage of those who prefer the EF Mass have less than charitable views of the OF Mass.
 
If there’s a choice between a yummy plain cheesecake and a 3 layer chocolate cake with buttercream frosting, both of those deserts are made with the finest ingredients. Both are rich in their own right. Both have a fullness and perfection.
Are you comparing the OF Mass to the 3 layer chocolate cake with buttercream frosting and the EF Mass to the plain cheesecake?
 
Yes but if they read the Baltimore Catechism, then they might have accepted it better.

Q. 566. Why does the Church use the Latin language instead of the national language of its children?

A. The Church uses the Latin language instead of the national language of its children:

To avoid the danger of changing any part of its teaching in using different languages;
That all its rulers may be perfectly united and understood in their communications;
To show that the Church is not an institute of any particular nation, but the guide of all nations.
I wonder how the Eastern Side of the Catholic Church felt about these words? Would this be why the BC has been largely replaced in practical use?
 
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Liberals thought they had gotten rid of it forever. Then one of God’s surprises…SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM!
 
If anyone wants to pin the blame somewhere for the development of the term “Novus Ordo”…it was originated by none other than the architect of the liturgy in question, Annibale Bugnini. He dubbed it the Novus Ordo Missae, and that title appears on the first copies of the Ordinary published in the late 60s, before the complete Missal appeared in 1970.

It wasn’t invented by those nasty traditionalists. Bugnini invented it.
Be that as it may, language is a dynamic thing. Try telling your average macho plumber or miner “my you seem in a gay mood today” when he looks joyful and happy. Over time the meaning of words gets corrupted, and some people, quite a few in fact, have been using “novus ordo” in a pejorative manner.

So like many folks I prefer to use the terminology the Church currently uses today, to avoid misunderstanding.
 
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