Why Hostility for the Latin Mass?

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Walking_Home said:
As I said before – the true enemies of the EF – are the toxic “traditionalist” themselves.
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This is accurate at present.

But there was a time in the 1970s and 80s when powerful people from a certain generation attacked the TLM itself, along with attacking the Magisterium, the Baltimore Catechism, habits of priests and sisters, and many other good things. In most places those people are now retired, soon to retire, or left the priesthood.

At least in my diocese the current leaders and clergy are neither for nor against the EF. The position of the SSPX in the US and locally seems to be, “We will never give up the memory of our past persecution, so the current situation in the diocese is irrelevant”. The local diocesan EF community is not that extreme, but sometimes leans a little that way.

When I see the diocesan EF community at diocesan prolife programs, I am tempted to go to the EF more often. When they invite a speaker who uses the Third Secret of Fatima to evaluate the current pope and bishops, I tend to distance myself from the EF.
 
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The SSPX was “born” via a schismatic act – which they continue in to this day. As time has progressed – hardness of heart has set in. This is what is being passed on to the younger generations being born into the SSPX. People need to open their eyes – that this “hardness of heart” is not contained solely within the SSPX – but has spread/is spreading through out the various Traditional communities within the Church.

Here is an example – from a toxic “Trad” site. A person in the process of converting – that has already been “swayed” in the direction of “toxic traditionalism”
Hello everyone! I’m new here and new to the Catholic faith. I’m converting from a Mormon/LDS. I’m a mom and homemaker and I have several children. I don’t have an SSPX or any other kinds of trad parishes near me, just an NO one, so me and my older children are in RCIA right now.

I’m excited to be here, I find I always have questions.

My first question is what’s with the bowing and crossing as you enter and exit the pew? Does everyone do this? Only baptized? Only confirmed? Only adults? Haaaalp!

Thanks!
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Vadne said:
ne thing is certain. If anyone is concerned about “disparagement” of the OF, they should study the history of how it was developed and implemented. The dishonesty and heavy-handed imposition, complete with real contempt for everything that preceded it, did much to harden battle lines in the 1960s and 1970s.

My favorite quote to illustrate this is from Bugnini’s book, where he says of his Novus Ordo…“Finally, there was worship in spirit and truth.”

What an arrogant, astonishing claim. There apparently wasn’t “worship in spirit and truth” until 1970. Truly an outrageous assertion.
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Archbishop Bugnini died in 1982. Does recalling his past quotations now help anyone in 2017 towards appreciation of the Latin Mass?

One obstacle to spreading the EF is the stereotype that the EF supporters are locked into treasuring past persecution, rather than bringing forward treasures from the past (like Gregorian Chant, etc) for people concerned about 2017.
 
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Read the book “A Bitter Trial” from Ignatius Press. It’s a very quick read, a compilation of letters. I think it provides a little bit of an insight.

http://amzn.to/2zhReDG

God Bless
 
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pianistclare said:
I think it’s a supply and demand thing. In this ARchdiocese, our ArchBishop has a degree in liturgy and is not opposed to it per se, but no one is asking for it. There is ONE Latin parish. Not large numbers but holding its own, with Sunday school, 2 FSSP priests, 2 Masses on Sunday.
People who seek Latin are told to go there, to kee that one place afloat. They’re happy to do so, but he doesn’t have priests or laity asking for it.
They have to think how they are going to support a parish as well as simply giving permissions.
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Which makes sense because there were not a lot of Catholics in Atlanta before Vatican II 🙂
 
pianistclare said:
think it’s a supply and demand thing. In this ARchdiocese, our ArchBishop has a degree in liturgy and is not opposed to it per se, but no one is asking for it. There is ONE Latin parish. Not large numbers but holding its own, with Sunday school, 2 FSSP priests, 2 Masses on Sunday.

People who seek Latin are told to go there, to kee that one place afloat. They’re happy to do so, but he doesn’t have priests or laity asking for it.

They have to think how they are going to support a parish as well as simply giving permissions.
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In my diocese you don’t hear about 2 full time priests in any parish under 2000 families in 2017.

What kinds of ministries do the 2 priests have, if there are “not large numbers”? Do they offer a much more intensive, personal pastoral care to this flock? Or do they have a lot of commitments as chaplains at hospitals, or filling in at other OF parishes, or travel to other TLM communities?

(Forgive my tangent, just curious. I am sure they work much harder than I ever did as a layman, I am just seeking to learn more. I know my 2 priest cousins in other religious orders worked very long hours, much of it most laity would be unaware of).
 
Archbishop Bugnini’s legacy is alive and well in the liturgical establishment.
 
Maybe, but the only thing that counts is Liturgical Law, the Roman Missal, and official Church documents. All else are opinions, which can effect how things are done, but are not official.
 
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Hardly the only thing that counts in the real world, in which the Church operates.
 
Archbishop Bugnini’s “legacy” is “alive and well” – because it “benefits” toxic “traditionalism” to keep it alive — to use against the authority of the Church and the OF.
 
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If anyone is to blame for the toxicity in the Church re: liturgy, it is the man who put in print that only with his liturgy was the Church “worshipping in spirit and in truth.”
 
Strange, too, that it is somehow forbidden to criticize the OF, and yet the EF is regularly criticized by those in the Church exactly entrusted with the duty of studying and promoting the liturgy.

In any case, there is no Church law that prevents criticizing liturgies.
 
Deflecting away from the true enemies/toxic trads of the EF-- does not change – that they are the true enemies of the EF.
 
We have 5 latin Masses in Alabama listed as active. In a state with a population of 4,849,377 the percentage of the residents that are Catholic is 6%. By our math there is one latin Mass for every 58,193 Catholics in the state.

There used to be 9 but they have closed. The 5 that are open are not even in the Arch-Diocese jurisdiction. Alabama has 2 diocese. Arch-Diocese is in the South.

It just is not an important commodity.
 
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Do you happen to know where the five EF / TLM masses are? I’m in Cullman County, and I’m not aware of any, except perhaps at Christ the King.

D
 
Birmingham

St. Pius V Chapel - CLOSED

Blessed Sacrament Church - Diocese

Cullman

Christ the King Abbey - CLOSED

Christ the King Monastery - Diocese

Huntsville

St. Mary of the Visitation - CLOSED

Our Lady, Help of Christians - Diocese

Laceys Spring

St. Benedict Church - CMRI

Montgomery

Our Lady of Lourdes Chapel - CLOSED

Whistler

St. Bridget Church - Diocese
 
Altar girls/EMHC’s/Communion in the hand – are allowed by the authority of the Church. And since when did you become God – to even say that many who attend the OF – don’t believe in the the Real Presence.
 
commenter said:
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pianistclare:
think it’s a supply and demand thing. In this ARchdiocese, our ArchBishop has a degree in liturgy and is not opposed to it per se, but no one is asking for it. There is ONE Latin parish. Not large numbers but holding its own, with Sunday school, 2 FSSP priests, 2 Masses on Sunday.

People who seek Latin are told to go there, to kee that one place afloat. They’re happy to do so, but he doesn’t have priests or laity asking for it.

They have to think how they are going to support a parish as well as simply giving permissions.
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In my diocese you don’t hear about 2 full time priests in any parish under 2000 families in 2017.

What kinds of ministries do the 2 priests have, if there are “not large numbers”? Do they offer a much more intensive, personal pastoral care to this flock? Or do they have a lot of commitments as chaplains at hospitals, or filling in at other OF parishes, or travel to other TLM communities?

(Forgive my tangent, just curious. I am sure they work much harder than I ever did as a layman, I am just seeking to learn more. I know my 2 priest cousins in other religious orders worked very long hours, much of it most laity would be unaware of).
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Priests are often assigned due to their charism. The dioceses may allow two FSSP priests to be at a singular parish for their own spiritual health. Our dioceses allows priests to be at a parish for 8 years, renewable once, before they must move on. However, there are quite a few priests–those who minister to college students, those who minister to holiday resort travelers, who are exempt because they are integral to their local community as well as their parish. It is not uncommon for them, even with a small congregation, to have a 2nd priest for the summer or for a while so that they may be trained.
 
I believe one can have reverence at any place of worship. One of the most “reverent” I attended was at a Lutheran memorial service for my niece. And FWIW, I was surprised by the similarity in form between that and of the Catholic Mass.
 
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