Why Hostility for the Latin Mass?

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I would think one would be more offended at Ordinary vs Extraordinary…especially when seeing that one definition of extraordinary is “exceptional to a very marked extent”…and a definition of exceptional is “superior”.
 
If I had to guess, I would say that is merely a problem with the English language. I bet in other languages it would mean more like Ordinary: what is usually done. While Extraordinary: what is sometimes done.
(Although, after having read the arguments against using the term Novus Ordo, I still don’t get why it is so offensive. It just means the “new order” of the Mass. Oh well…)
 
I am old enough to have grown up with the Latin Mass, and indeed learnt Latin at school, but I can well remember the universal joy and relief when we were allowed Mass in the vernacular. As a teenager, Latin Mass was an hour of tedium at which the celebrant mumbled incomprehensively to himself with his back turned to the congregation, leaving them to amuse themselves as best they could - which very often was by saying endless rosaries to pas the time…If you enjoy it, Latin is still an option, but I think it unlikely that the majority of church goers would welcome its widespread return. And after all, if you are promoting “authenticity”, perhaps we should be campaigning for an Aramaic Mass.
 
Entwhistler said:
If I had to guess, I would say that is merely a problem with the English language. I bet in other languages it would mean more like Ordinary: what is usually done. While Extraordinary: what is sometimes done.

(Although, after having read the arguments against using the term Novus Ordo, I still don’t get why it is so offensive. It just means the “new order” of the Mass. Oh well…)
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It may well be a problem specific to English. In the US terms like “New World Order” have been used by those who warn against a one-world religion, a one-world government, etc. The word “Order” has the meaning of “mandate” or control which Ordo likely doesn’t have in Latin, or other translations. The US dollar bill has the words “novus ordo seculorum”.

It is puzzling that people would use an outdated term, rather than “Ordinary Form”. You use the current term, not the outdated term, for other things, don’t you? The decision to use an outdated or annoying term is not forbidden, it is just stupid. It is like a post with archaic spelling and grammar mistakes. It makes your post less persuasive, it makes you less credible.
 
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I use the abbreviation OF when I actually have to abbreviate. Mainly because when you abbreviate “Novus Ordo” you get NO which can be confusing and (I will admit) can make you sound like a rad-trad. But that is as far as I can comprehend offensive-wise. I will say “Novus Ordo” in a live conversation as I also say Ordinary Form here and there. To be honest though, hardly anyone (except Catholics and Latin scholars) would understand that “Novus Ordo” could be referring to “The New World Order”. And if they are Catholics they probably know you are talking about the Mass. And if they are Latin scholars…well, how many of those are out there who aren’t Catholic? Bottom line is, I understand what you are saying in that it may be an outdated term but offensive?
 
Entwhistler said:
use the abbreviation OF when I actually have to abbreviate. Mainly because when you abbreviate “Novus Ordo” you get NO which can be confusing and (I will admit) can make you sound like a rad-trad. But that is as far as I can comprehend offensive-wise. I will say “Novus Ordo” in a live conversation as I also say Ordinary Form here and there. To be honest though, hardly anyone (except Catholics and Latin scholars) would understand that “Novus Ordo” could be referring to “The New World Order”. And if they are Catholics they probably know you are talking about the Mass. And if they are Latin scholars…well, how many of those are out there who aren’t Catholic? Bottom line is, I understand what you are saying in that it may be an outdated term but offensive?
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If people find a certain term to be annoying, I avoid using it, if there is a correct or more current alternative. Why they find it offensive? Who cares!

I am not so much offended by the term “novus ordo” as I am annoyed that half of the Latin Mass supporters I find are so incredibly unpersuasive. I occasionally go to it myself and I would like to see opportunities for it expanded.

In my paranoid moments, I almost wonder if there is a conspiracy to crush the Latin Mass (and Fatima, and other good things) by planting people on the internet who are intentionally unpersuasive.
😀

Unfortunately one person who promotes a good cause, but is extremely annoying, can cancel out the (name removed by moderator)ut of 10 others who affectionately demonstrate and explain the positive aspects, the treasure of Gregorian Chant, how the Latin Mass touched their heart in a difficult time, etc.
 
Agreed on all points. TLM parish that I attend used to be super judgmental and a few people leaned slightly to the SSPX. Which is why we didn’t go there then. Thankfully, now most of those folks have left. More normal people have begun to attend. Which is why we came. 🙂
To be honest, having only gone to the Latin Mass for about 6 years, I have never run into people who thought the term Novus Ordo was offensive. Until I came here. Oh well. C’est la vie
 
It’s a good argument to have the Mass in Aramaic because it captures the nuances of the language Christ spoke in. To me, I would like to extend that argument to have all readings of the OT done in Hebrew, not only because they were written in that language but Hebrew was the language Christ worshipped in.

That said, the Church chose Latin to preserve its documents, scripture, and liturgy. That plus the fact that it was one of the three languages used as Christ’s inscription on the cross makes it a sacred language. Many prayers were written in Latin, including the Roman Canon in the early days. Though it doesn’t have the nuances of Hebrew, it preserves the nuances of the Catholic Church. The same can’t be said of most vernaculars.
 
AdamPeter said:
of
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Actually the stricter Latin rules place the adjective AFTER the noun. It is Forma Ordinaria not Ordinaria Forma. Thus it would make more sense to use FO.

This may not work the same way with NOM (Novus Ordo Missae), as Missae connects with Ordo not Novus. So you can’t use ON for short here.
 
Why? Because in English NO mass looks like no mass. At least that is what I find offensive.
 
Mi_Rose said:
Why? Because in English NO mass looks like no mass. At least that is what I find offensive.
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There is a fairly obvious difference between “no Mass” (can’t say “the no Mass”) and "the NO Mass (have to use the definite article). I know what the latter means, and I have suspicions about the motives of those who claim otherwise.

That said, back when I was writing reports for the guvvermint, we had an unwritten rule that abbreviations that could not be mistaken for English words were written without periods, while abbreviations that could be mistaken for English words were written with periods. So we would write “the UK”, “the USSR”, “the DPRK”, etc., but “the U.S.”. By this rule, we back in the agency and back in the day would have written “the N.O. Mass”. Can we at least agree that there is no ambiguity in that phrase?

D
 
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commenter said:
It may well be a problem specific to English. In the US terms like “New World Order” have been used by those who warn against a one-world religion, a one-world government, etc. The word “Order” has the meaning of “mandate” or control which Ordo likely doesn’t have in Latin, or other translations. The US dollar bill has the words “novus ordo seculorum”.

It is puzzling that people would use an outdated term, rather than “Ordinary Form”. You use the current term, not the outdated term, for other things, don’t you? The decision to use an outdated or annoying term is not forbidden, it is just stupid. It is like a post with archaic spelling and grammar mistakes. It makes your post less persuasive, it makes you less credible.
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C’mon, let’s be honest. Anyone “into” the Mass deep enough to even use the moniker “novus ordo” knows the term is deeply offensive to many. THAT’S THE VERY REASON THEY USE IT! To denigrate the form of the Mass they have been conditioned to hate and to gig those that appreciate the OF Mass. The OF and EF Mass monikers are easy to use, they’re well-known and it’s what Pope Benedict XVI asked us to use. It’s all about being offensive.
 
Some people regard Latin as a “foreign language”.

But then some people think that math is a foreign language or worse.

Do you think math is whiteness?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/268238/mathematics-…whiteness-jack-kerwick


www.dailymail.co.uk

Professor says math 'perpetuates white privilege'

Rochelle Gutierrez, a math education instructor at the University of Illinois, released a detailed anthology which suggests the problem solving subject is racist.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

www.news-gazette.com

UI defends professor after book chapter draws attention

Education Professor Rochelle Gutierrez wrote 'who gets credit for doing and developing mathematics, who is capable in mathematics and who is seen as part of the mathematical community is generally
www.news-gazette.com www.news-gazette.com
 
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