Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam

[Arbitro360]

A “Liberal” is one who is unable to take his own side in an argument.

I fear that Catholics have fallen into this same trap.

They are unwilling (afraid, I say) to speak the truth to Islam.

When I quote the Koran, thus:

Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror. While I was sleeping the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.’”

or

*Qur’an 48:28 “It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth (Islam), that he may make it superior to every other religion, exalting it over them.”
*
or

*Qur’an 47:4 “So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity (free them) or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.” *

I am called “Islamophobe” and “Racist” (Edited).

a) A “Phobia” is an irrational fear. My fear of the Muslim Heathen is quite rational, excuse me.

b) What “Race” is Islam? Islam is a totalitarian-gangster ideology wrapped in religious garb, NOT a race. Although the Arab Imperialist strain runs strongly all through it.

c) The Christian Falange is NOT a HATE group.

Wake UP! If we do not resist the coming wave of barbarism, there will be no “Catholic Answers Forum” only “Ask the Imam.”

Don’t be fooled into believing that Islam is in any way the equal of Religion, or worthy of respect in any way. Where Islam goes, blood flows. Read your history, read your newspaper, think for yourself.

Long Live the Christian Falange !

 

[Glaucon]

Glaucon, what’s up with your signature? Is that Arabic writing?

Yessir, it is. It reads “Lan astaslem”.

 

[Cathdefender]

Yessir, it is. It reads “lan astaslem”.

What does that mean? You profile lists you as Catholic?

 

[Glaucon]

What does that mean? You profile lists you as Catholic?

It means “I will not submit”. Google for a bit of a backgrounder.

And yes, I’m Catholic.

 

[Cathdefender]

It means “I will not submit”. Google for a bit of a backgrounder.

And yes, I’m Catholic.

But Islam is all about “submitting”. I think it’s an insult to my Catholic faith. As a Catholic, I couldn’t even think of a signature like this…

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Excuse my language, however you’re a real Jackass.

Perhapse you find my responses simple minded or elementary, that is your right, however you have not ONE SHRED of evidence to say I am lying, in fact I have provide a plethora of evidence to prove I was raised Catholic and was once QUOTE devout.

I have provided the name of my Baptismal Priest, the name of my former Youth Minister, the name of blah blah blah.

Ah, the young. I’m concerned with only your statement that you find the Holy Trinity an “egregious doctrine”, along with the crucifixion of course.

Originally Posted by wth1257
…Those are the two most egregious doctrines, though naturally there are a plethora of issues, however I have slept little and it is late.

That makes you a non-Christian entirely. No other “credential of Catholicness” means a whit. I do pray that you come to your senses, but you apparently left Christianity long ago.

I also could not care less whether you’re lying to me, or to us, other than your obvious attempts at scandalizing Catholics away from the Church, but you really shouldn’t lie to yourself in that you are a Catholic, or Christian of any stripe.

You have NO RIGHT to judge the state of my soul you hypocrite.

I don’t judge your soul whatsoever. How have I done that?

Of course, if such delf assured, pretentious, arrogance is the mark of a “real” Catholic like yourself I suppose I misjudged my entire religion and should not hold it in fond regard but only contempt, as apparently it’s “true” members are not pious Monks in the Bronks(Whom I have ALSO had the PLEASURE of meeting) or humble nuns, of simply Pious Laymen, like Pope John Paul II’s father, but individuals such as yourself.

I will CERTAINLY grant that I need to work on my “pastoral” skills!

How have you come to be so unbelieving in regards the very bases of Christianity after being so “INFLUENCED” by those very pious and pleasant people of the Church?

Most likely because SOMETHING scandalized you away from the Church, where you allowed yourself to impute the sins of people within the Church to the Church herself, and are now interested in “helping” (scandalizing) people of the Church toward their “intellectually inevitable” journey into islam, just like you.

If your-admittedly pious “friends” within the Church haven’t made an impression on you, perhaps my more “rough” truth-telling, being at least “different in tactic”, might have some effect.

I don’t think it will, of course, as your hightailing-it seems to indicate.

Now, I am fantastically willing to listen to critiques of my views of Christianity, but I am sick of this. Either call my bluff, which I doubt as that would take a smidgen of personal fortitude to remove onself from the comforts of anonymous character assassination, or drop it.

I’ve done nothing BUT call your bluff. Your BLUFF is that you are interested in move back toward Christianity. You have no interest in that, quite obviously.

To call you a non-Catholic is not “character assasination”.
It is a D E S C R I P T I O N of what you say you are.

Now, I will finish any last replies necessary, then I’ll be gone for while(at least) for all the nice people, thank you, I will continue reading and searching before doing anything drastic.

bye

My prayers are with you that your desire to bring people with you away from God in His fullness and into an at-best “natural law” relationship with Him will fall away.

May your worship of “nice-ness”, and “simplemindedness” over truth likewise fall away, and may the pious friends from your past kindle in your soul a desire for a Father, a Brother and a vital Spirit instead of the desires of a self-sold slave.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Hey, for an “Islamish non-Muslim”, you’re getting pretty good at it, OP. Kudos!

I don’t know what the hell your problem is, however I am not a Muslim apologist or any of the various attributed identities assigned to me by various posters. I am a teenager presently disillusioned with his Catholic Faith, drawn to Islam, and seeking honest advise/help. Why you feel the need to continually ridicule me I don’t know, could you provide an explanation?

Wth, why are you disillusioned with the Church? THAT is most likely the single most important “answer” you can give us to help you as we’re obliged to help you.

We are NOT to help you move away from God by giving you any good reasons (which there are none anyway) for becoming islamic.

You need to address why it is you are disillusioned with the Church. Until you share that with us, you are hiding, and lying to us, about your concerns (at best) and giving you the truth about your position (as regards salvation and intellectual honesty) will indeed seem to you to be “personal attack” to you.

You can’t hold back your real problem, and lie about doing so by denying yu are so doing, an expect any description of yourself as dishonest and probably subversive.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

c) The Christian Falange is NOT a HATE group.

Long Live the Christian Falange !

Fascists are leftists, and in essence socialists, regardless of their protestations.

Just another variety of slaver, who would make slaves of themselves to their “master slavers”, and of everyone else as their slaves.

A hideous perversion of the ideas of the Church, and a would-be (wanna-be) replacement for her.

A great way to lose one’s soul, indeed!

 

[abucs]

i have to agree with Cats and Dogs about wth1257 not being a Catholic or in fact a Christian of any stripe.

Wth1257 may or may not think he is, but whatever the case, he is not.

His disparaging OP remarks of :

" … Secondly there is the matter of Jesus’ Crucifixion. I know, “God is just, and infinite sin must be reconciled by and infinitely perfect sacrifice” or whatever formulation you wish, however, Christopher Hitchen’s hyperbole aside, it is a good point. God s omnipotent, yet He must kill himself, excuse me His Son, no excuse me, the human nature of his Son,… "

was given several fair explanations including my own lengthy post of #129 which is standard Christian thinking.

The only answer to that was - ‘to be honest i don’t find that all that convincing’.

There was no wish to expound or investigate or further address these standard orthodox Christian viewpoints on God.

Fair enough, but that is Christianity. It is a relationship with God.
If you don’t accept that, then you are not a Christian.

If you are not interested in even exploring the thoughts of 2000 years of Christianity on this then indeed i repeat my earlier question - why are you posting ?

It is obviously not to listen and engage in Christian thinking.

I wish you good luck with what you are now, or indeed, with what you may choose to change to in the future years after careful reflection.

 

[KimL]

i have to agree with Cats and Dogs about wth1257 not being a Catholic or in fact a Christian of any stripe.
n.

No one here knows this person so we should not “assume” anything and just pray he finds his way to what is right.

This is one nasty thread and many people here should be ashamed of themselves!!!

 

[Glaucon]

But Islam is all about “submitting”. I think it’s an insult to my Catholic faith. As a Catholic, I couldn’t even think of a signature like this…

I beg your pardon. How could a rebuff of Islam be an insult to the Catholic faith…? I don’t see the connection at all, I’m sorry. Could you explain further?

 

[wth1257]

“Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam?” Ah, the big WHY?

Your age and psycho-social development move you and your peers to explore the world.
Questioning ideas and forming friendships are closely linked. You have Muslim friends now.

I also have many Roman Catholic friends, I don’t want to give the impression that I solely hang out with a group Muslims, I spend more time with Christians, Jews and non-religious on average.

Developmentally, you’re on track so that’s not a worry.
Peer pressure is important in its ability to influence actions. Also predicatable.

I do try to keep this in mind, my age and development make me predisposed to liberalism and political activism so I try to balance that out by listening to talk radio, as I don’t wish to get isolated in some one ideology.

My point is I don’t loose sight of my psychological development in such matters.

However if you find that you are drifting from your Faith - then think about this:
Do you treat your faith as the pearl of great price?

I did

Why aren’t you developing friendships with Catholics at uni?

University studies was not the start of my disillusionment with Catholicism. I was not raised religious and had a very strong disposition to science so I’ve never been fully comfortable with religion. As I said I do have Catholic Friends

How great is your personal need to rebel?

I certainly know I am very susceptible to youthful idealism, however I am no Lord Byron running off the Greece

I wouldn’t say I really have much of one.

Have you ever made a lifelong commitment to Catholicism?

yes

Have you checked out the Neuman Club at your school?
If not, why not?

Yes, and I met with the Bishop when he visited, I’ve met him a few times. The Priest there is also a very good man. Like I said, I’ve never had a bad experience with a Priest.

Have you joined a local parish?

Newman center has a Priest, Fr. Bill

If you are drifting away from your faith then perhaps you do not value it enough.
Many people can argue against the Church. Why do you choose them as your new friends?

 

[wth1257]

I beg your pardon. How could a rebuff of Islam be an insult to the Catholic faith…? I don’t see the connection at all, I’m sorry. Could you explain further?

Read Paradise Lost. Satan and he legions rebelled from God with the terrifying cry, “We Shall not Serve”

A universally, unqualified claim of, “I will not submit” is very anti-Christian

 

[katy_kt]

Hi wth1257

What are you doing about your doubts about the Catholic faith? Are you speaking to a priest about it? If you aren’t, I encourage you to personally talk to a priest.

Also try to read all the four Gospels…

God Bless!

 

[wth1257]

It seems he made up his mind already!

No I haven’t

 

[abucs]

No one here knows this person so we should not “assume” anything and just pray he finds his way to what is right.

This is one nasty thread and many people here should be ashamed of themselves!!!

KimL, with all due respect, how can you be a Catholic and think that the whole ‘idea’ of the trinity is simply silly ? And not even want to enter into further discussion.

How can you be a Catholic and think that the death and ressurrection of Jesus makes no sense at all ? And not even want to enter into further discussion.

i have taken care in this thread to be respectful to the poster.
I continue to wish him well in whatever he chooses to do or not do.

I am simply being honest on how i see things. If we can’t be honest in what we write, why bother writing ?

 

[wth1257]

Hi wth1257

What are you doing about your doubts about the Catholic faith? Are you speaking to a priest about it? If you aren’t, I encourage you to personally talk to a priest.

Also try to read all the four Gospels…

God Bless!

I’ve read some Aquinas, however I suppose I will read “The Summa of the Summa” and some more Augustine, some official statements of faith by the Church, and “Introduction to Christianity” by Ratzinger, and pray.

I suppose I could talk with the Newman center priest next fall, if the Bishop comes by again I could talk to him.

Like I said I don’t like to speak to people about my difficulties, so I prefer reading to talking.

 

[wth1257]

KimL, with all due respect, how can you be a Catholic and think that the whole ‘idea’ of the trinity is simply silly ? And not even want to enter into further discussion.

How can you be a Catholic and think that the death and ressurrection of Jesus makes no sense at all ? And not even want to enter into further discussion.

i have taken care in this thread to be respectful to the poster.
I continue to wish him well in whatever he chooses to do or not do.

I am simply being honest on how i see things. If we can’t be honest in what we write, why bother writing ?

There is no requirement in the Church that we think the commandments make sense, just that we supplement our intellectual difficulties with pious faith.

Despite Cat’s and Dog’s insistence I have not formally rejected the Church, if a Cathartic outburst expressing difficulties with religious doctrines results in an automatic excommunication this is news to me.

As to you, as I said in my reply, I genuinely appreciated your thoughts and read them, why the simple fact that I did not find it convincing offends you I do not know.

 

[abucs]

wth1257,

the Pope calls for faith and reason. You cannot have one while ignoring the other.

We are not called to ‘blindly accept’ things but think through them.
Your response does not insult me, i simply make the point that to my (and others) posts, you do not engage. you simply reject.

As i said previously - fair enough. But if you reject the tenets of christianity without even wanting to engage in the apologetics of them, then i can’t see how you are Christian.

In all honesty, i wish you well in who you are, and who you become. You should follow your faith and reason.

 

[wth1257]

No answers to this one, wth1257?

zerinus

Not yet, I have been thinking of the proper way to answer for a few days.