Why I am Staying Single

[joshvanrad]

I agree with the hyper sensitivity to the issue.

It is in the Catechism that we should be naturally attracted to the opposite sex. It is natural and Holy when observed in a chaste way. If you are looking to find a man who is not attracted to beautiful human creatures, you’re not going to like what you find.

BUT AGAIN, there is absolutely nothing morally wrong with men who are attracted to other women. Period. The end.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

We agree. I don’t know how women feel, hope I didn’t imply such. I do try to guess. I was trying to comment on how men ARE, not how we feel or think.

I agree it is about how women feel and think about what men do. I think it would be great if you and the op would state just exactly how you feel and think about your man looking in a Victoria’s secret, lingerie ad, or playboy, at an attractive woman passing by, or whatever. That is what this thread is about. And what do you believe the man is thinking?

We don’t really agree. I did not say you don’t know how women feel.

In the book I mentioned in my other post, the author (who is a very respected PHD) tells how from the earliest times women developed instincts necessary to protect the family unit from outside influences that might take the man away, since a woman and her children were dependant upon the man hunting for food. Outside influences being other women. Basically, the theory is the human female has evolved in intellect, but those insticts still remain so that when a female notices a male she has formed an attachment to looking at another woman she feels a threat (and women on paper count because they are a symbol of sexual attaction just as much as the neighboring cavewoman would be). This is why women don’t like men looking at other women. It is a threat.

I am writing this theory from memory. I haven’t read the book in awhile and too tired to go get it from my bookshelf and look up quotes. But it a really good read, so I would recommend anyone with an open mind to pick it up.

If any man (or woman) wants to assert that it is natural for men to look at sexual images of women other than their own, then they also should accept that it is natual for a woman to feel a threat because deep down inside she wants to protect herself just the same as women down through the ages have wanted.

As for what I believe, personally, that a man is thinking. I honestly don’t care myself. Because of my age and experiences, I have heard it all I guess. I have had discussions, fights, read books, talked with other women. What I do care about is what is right for me. That is what the OP should care about. Set your boundries about what you want from a guy and tell him, in the beginning preferrably. If you don’t like something, tell him and don’t worry that it is supposed to be “natural”. If he is a gentleman, he will honor what you like and don’t like. I don’t know how long you were with your guy, but you have to give people a chance to change. If it was only two or three months and you broke it off because of a lingerie ad, perhaps he did not have the time to show you he could change that behavior.

I also have wanted to point out since I read your OP that, at least here in America, there are male models and actors who pose shirtless and who are very well built. I see TV shows were women hoot and howl over them. I think it is ridulous and I would not do that. But a lot of women get excited over that. Is that natural? I don’t know. But, obviously, drolling over the opposite sex even when you have someone is something some people of both sexes do. Would my guy find me doing it? No, cuz that is just not me. You just need someone who is more like you.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

BUT AGAIN, there is absolutely nothing morally wrong with men who are attracted to other women. Period. The end.

The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken. Ha, ha.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

the second I even have a crush on a guy, all that turns off, I can still recognise that a guy is good looking of course but all the attraction immediately shuts off. I always thought decent guys were this way too so I was in for a rude awakening…

I am the same way. Except that I would find myself attacted to actors who would remind me of my boyfriend. I would tell him so too. I think he thought I was idealizing him. I still can’t look at Dennis Quaid without thinking of my ex-boyfriend fondly and imagining how it felt to kiss him. (Which is a good thing because we had a bad break up many years ago.)

Yes, I think there are some guys like this too. I had a friend who was like that. I think we are just romantics at heart, perhaps.

Hang in there. Give people a chance. Each person is an individual.

 

[doglover2]

Sheep, yes I will pray about it. Sometimes I think it’s possible that I’m called to be single. Yes, I know that men forget about it right away afterwards from what I’ve heard. I disagree (no offence) that my boyfriend couldn’t have liked me if he wasn’t attracted to other women while he was with me. I stop being attracted to other men once I have feelings for someone, but that hasn’t prevented me from being in a relationship What someone said to me is “you seem to be like a very exclusive person, which, once with someone can only see him and be with him. As if your “libido” would be exclusively projected toward him and “blocking” every outside/foreign “message” you know.” That’s a fairly accurate message. Sure I can see that others are handsome but the attraction I’d feel if I was single is not there.

Josh, I’m not looking for a man who will stop being attracted to other women once he’s with me because I realised 2 years ago that all men are attracted to others, which is why I’m staying single.

Carole, that’s interesting…who knows, maybe I am subconsciously threatened by this…I just wonder why other women see it as so natural but I honestly never know about this phenomenon until I was 22 years old! I mean sure I heard about it in movies but I thought surely it’s not like this in real life. And if I heard a girl saying she had a celebrity crush, it made me uncomfortable if she had a boyfriend, but I’d just chalk it up to, “I guess she’s a promiscuous type,” not realising how common this really is.

 

[joshvanrad]

Josh, I’m not looking for a man who will stop being attracted to other women once he’s with me because I realised 2 years ago that all men are attracted to others, which is why I’m staying single.

Then there isn’t much more to discuss, is there?

 

[white_sheep]

We don’t really agree. I did not say you don’t know how women feel.

In the book I mentioned in my other post, the author (who is a very respected PHD) tells how from the earliest times women developed instincts necessary to protect the family unit from outside influences that might take the man away, since a woman and her children were dependant upon the man hunting for food. Outside influences being other women. Basically, the theory is the human female has evolved in intellect, but those insticts still remain so that when a female notices a male she has formed an attachment to looking at another woman she feels a threat (and women on paper count because they are a symbol of sexual attaction just as much as the neighboring cavewoman would be). This is why women don’t like men looking at other women. It is a threat.

I am writing this theory from memory. I haven’t read the book in awhile and too tired to go get it from my bookshelf and look up quotes. But it a really good read, so I would recommend anyone with an open mind to pick it up.

If any man (or woman) wants to assert that it is natural for men to look at sexual images of women other than their own, then they also should accept that it is natual for a woman to feel a threat because deep down inside she wants to protect herself just the same as women down through the ages have wanted.

As for what I believe, personally, that a man is thinking. I honestly don’t care myself. Because of my age and experiences, I have heard it all I guess. I have had discussions, fights, read books, talked with other women. What I do care about is what is right for me. That is what the OP should care about. Set your boundries about what you want from a guy and tell him, in the beginning preferrably. If you don’t like something, tell him and don’t worry that it is supposed to be “natural”. If he is a gentleman, he will honor what you like and don’t like. I don’t know how long you were with your guy, but you have to give people a chance to change. If it was only two or three months and you broke it off because of a lingerie ad, perhaps he did not have the time to show you he could change that behavior.

I also have wanted to point out since I read your OP that, at least here in America, there are male models and actors who pose shirtless and who are very well built. I see TV shows were women hoot and howl over them. I think it is ridulous and I would not do that. But a lot of women get excited over that. Is that natural? I don’t know. But, obviously, drolling over the opposite sex even when you have someone is something some people of both sexes do. Would my guy find me doing it? No, cuz that is just not me. You just need someone who is more like you.

Well I agree with everything you just wrote. Maybe I am typing poorly. lol

Dennis Prager has the male/female hour on his radio show Wednesday during the second hour and I think 4 times a year he has a woman on named Allison Armstrong who writes books about relationships. This exact topic came up once and Dennis stopped her to explain that when men look away from such an image it completely leaves their mind and they don’t think about it again. It was news to her and a big relief on her part. She realized that she was feeling threatened by these images for no reason.

 

[white_sheep]

Sheep, yes I will pray about it. Sometimes I think it’s possible that I’m called to be single. Yes, I know that men forget about it right away afterwards from what I’ve heard. I disagree (no offence) that my boyfriend couldn’t have liked me if he wasn’t attracted to other women while he was with me. I stop being attracted to other men once I have feelings for someone, but that hasn’t prevented me from being in a relationship What someone said to me is “you seem to be like a very exclusive person, which, once with someone can only see him and be with him. As if your “libido” would be exclusively projected toward him and “blocking” every outside/foreign “message” you know.” That’s a fairly accurate message. Sure I can see that others are handsome but the attraction I’d feel if I was single is not there.

What does the attraction of your ex-boyfriend to other women mean to you? Do you think that means he’s thinking about having sex with them or always looking for some other woman to run off with?

 

[MJJean]

Josh, I’m not looking for a man who will stop being attracted to other women once he’s with me because I realised 2 years ago that all men are attracted to others, which is why I’m staying single.

Carole, that’s interesting…who knows, maybe I am subconsciously threatened by this…I just wonder why other women see it as so natural but I honestly never know about this phenomenon until I was 22 years old! I mean sure I heard about it in movies but I thought surely it’s not like this in real life. And if I heard a girl saying she had a celebrity crush, it made me uncomfortable if she had a boyfriend, but I’d just chalk it up to, “I guess she’s a promiscuous type,” not realising how common this really is.

Now that you know if you want marriage and a family you will have to learn to accept. As others have said, physical attraction to the opposite sex is how our species is designed. Merely being in a relationship cannot override our programming. That natural attraction to the opposite sex is how we find mates, but it doesn’t know it’s useless and to go away once we’re in a committed relationship. It’s a completely uncontrollable function of biology. What is in our control is how we respond to our attractions and how we behave when we feel them.

I’ve been married for 11 years and my husband and I have been together for 14 years. I’d be a liar if I said I’ve never felt physical attractions toward other men and he’d be a liar if he said he’d never felt physical attractions toward other women. In fact, I don’t know a single person who is in a long term relationship that hasn’t felt attractions to others. Attractions themselves aren’t a problem. The problem would be if someone in an exclusive relationship acted on that attraction. As long as no one is acting on their attractions it’s no harm, no foul.

Do I love my husband? Absolutely. Does he love me? Absolutely. Are we attracted to each other? Yup. Does feeling an attraction to another person somehow lessen or take away from that attraction to each other? Nope. Does feeling attracted to other people somehow lessen our love for each other? Nope. Not only does being attracted to other people not lessen our love and commitment, it proves it! If we didn’t love each other and weren’t committed to each other we’d act on those attractions. But we do not. So, really, every time my husband or I are attracted to another person and do nothing about it we are showing our love for and commitment to each other.

 

[doglover2]

Josh, I just wanted to be able to talk about my feelings on this issue

Sheep, No I didn’t think Lukasz was actually thinking about having sex with them or hoping to be with another woman. He was devoted to me and completely in love, well, as in love as you can be while still having feelings of attraction to other women >.> To me it’s just like when you’re in a relationship those more-than-platonic feelings of attraction should only be directed towards your partner and everything towards other people should be merely platonic.

Jean, I understand that that’s how men are biologically but I’m not okay with it, which is why I must stay single, although I would have loved with all my heart to have gotten married. I know what you mean about how it doesn’t lessen your guy’s love and attraction for each other, but I simply find it inappropriate that those feelings of attraction should exist towards others when in a committed relationship.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

Carole, that’s interesting…who knows, maybe I am subconsciously threatened by this…I just wonder why other women see it as so natural but I honestly never know about this phenomenon until I was 22 years old! I mean sure I heard about it in movies but I thought surely it’s not like this in real life. And if I heard a girl saying she had a celebrity crush, it made me uncomfortable if she had a boyfriend, but I’d just chalk it up to, “I guess she’s a promiscuous type,” not realising how common this really is.

I don’t think of a man looking at pictues of half naked or naked women for his enjoyment in front of his girlfriend as natural. This is what you seemed to describe in your original post. If it was not as bad as all that, or a more innocent he just happened to be looking at a lingerie ad and you “caught him”, then you are blowing it out of proportion since you projected your own thoughts onto his brain. That is, if you did not talk to him about it.

I don’t see this looking at photos of naked/half naked women for pleasure phenomenon that happens to men. I do see it as a CHOICE and an EXCUSE. And it is something that can lead some people (women too) into exploring pornography and even possible addiction.

There is no way a crush can be promiscuous. Crushes are innocent puppy love stuff.

Now, if a girl is saying she is having sex dreams over a celeb, whether or not she has a boyfriend, that is just indulging a bit too much in a fantasy live, in my opinion. (Ssme thing for guys.) I am probably a pragmatist because it seems weird, very strange, to me have sexual fantasties over someone you can never even touch at all.

What I was talking about was seeing someone on screen and projecting my boyfriend onto him because he looks and sounds like my boyfriend. Seeing the actor kiss an actresses and thinking, “That is how Dave kissed me and this reminds me of how I felt in Dave’s arms.” Actually, the scene that comes to mind is the last scene of Parent Trap (newer version). Really racy stuff.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

Well I agree with everything you just wrote. Maybe I am typing poorly. lol

Dennis Prager has the male/female hour on his radio show Wednesday during the second hour and I think 4 times a year he has a woman on named Allison Armstrong who writes books about relationships. This exact topic came up once and Dennis stopped her to explain that when men look away from such an image it completely leaves their mind and they don’t think about it again. It was news to her and a big relief on her part. She realized that she was feeling threatened by these images for no reason.

I don’t care for Dennis Prager and have stopped listening to him. I like to have an open mind, and I find after listening to some personalities that they seem to be creating narrow minds by what they say or who they present on their show, so it makes me uncomfortable. I feel I can’t gain any factual information from him as well as other conservatives who seem biased. I do listen to NPR because I get all sides of issues since they present roundtable discussions with both sides of the same issue, book discussions, music discussions, interviews with actors, actresses, musicans, authors, and historians.

I have an undergraduate degree in both social sciences (including women studies) and social service with an emphasis on counseling.

But I digress.

It is not true that looking at images does not stay with a man. In fact, it is the opposite for most people, both men and women. Images can replay in the brain. This is one reason why addiction to pornography may happen and why it is happenning at younger ages now, due to exposure to sexualized images at an early age.

Suggest you read some of the threads on these forums regarding pornography addiction. I learned quite a bit just from reading posts here.

It is amazing that anyone would say men forget images after looking at them. So men never remember movies they say, or directors of movies don’t remember the dailies after seeing them? Maybe only brainless men forget images they have seen.

 

[MJJean]

Josh, I just wanted to be able to talk about my feelings on this issue

Sheep, No I didn’t think Lukasz was actually thinking about having sex with them or hoping to be with another woman. **He was devoted to me and completely in love, well, as in love as you can be while still having feelings of attraction to other women >.> ** To me it’s just like when you’re in a relationship those more-than-platonic feelings of attraction should only be directed towards your partner and everything towards other people should be merely platonic.

Jean, I understand that that’s how men are biologically but I’m not okay with it, which is why I must stay single, although I would have loved with all my heart to have gotten married. I know what you mean about how it doesn’t lessen your guy’s love and attraction for each other, but I simply find it inappropriate that those feelings of attraction should exist towards others when in a committed relationship.

So, you believe that love should override biological programming? Isn’t that a bit unrealistic? Feelings of attraction are completely outside of our control. Love and attraction are not mutually exclusive or mutually inclusive. Again, proof of love is not in the absence of these natural feelings but in how we behave. Love is both a natural feeling and a conscious choice. Attraction is a natural feeling, but in no way a choice.

Have you considered that maybe you do not want a husband and family at all? Perhaps you continue to view love and attraction the way you do as a buffer between you and a long term relationship because you either aren’t ready yet or really don’t desire marriage deep down. Perhaps you just think you want marriage and family with all your heart because that is what you learned you were supposed to want. Someone who truly wants something with all their heart will make it happen. If you aren’t willing or able to adjust your thinking to allow yourself to accept this aspect of human nature maybe it is because marriage and family aren’t your desire or calling. Just something to think about.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

Doglover,

I am going to take a completely different angle than anyone else on this thread. Because I noticed a lot in your original post that has not been addressed by myself or others yet.

If you go to your original post and read it over, you may see that you went after Lukas, made the first move. The relationship began and developed through your actions.

You initiated a relationship with someone who seemed reluctant, or not on the same page as you, or maybe to naive to know what a girl wants. You were the first to touch him and want him to touch you. Touching his leg, giving him a hint in order to get him to hold your hand (which he ignored), trying to put your head on his shoulder (which he ignored), and hinting more about about having cold hands.

You did not want to set times to meet him because you were afraid he would not take that seriously and be there. Sad to say, you sensed that what you felt was not mutual and you would need to be careful about how you proceeded. (Hey, I have been there myself and know the feeling.) So you went to where you thought he would be and met up with him, running into him. I am not quite sure when this became an actual dating relationship or if it did. By dating I mean he says, “I would like to take you out to dinner, what night are you free?” And he picks you up, drives you, has the restaurant or activity planned. You need do very little because he wants to be with you and arranges to. I am unclear if that happened.

After being in a relationship, you were the first to say I love you and you asked him if he loved you. He said he did. Later, you saw him looking at a photo of a woman in lingerie.

I have been thinking of this course of events and what it means since I read your OP.

I hope this does not offend or hurt you. Could it be that seeing him look at that picture made you feel insecure because along the way of getting to know him you sensed that you had more feelings for him, that you wanted closeness when he initially showed no interest in being physically close to you? Could it be that you are focused on the photo and the “phemonon” of what it means because it hurts that you had to wait for him to show interest in you, and this is the reason you want to remain single, presumably for the rest of your life.

Of course, being “single” - never marrying, never have sex, never having a boyfriend - is safe. That way you don’t put yourself out there again to get hurt by someone you liked, loved, who didn’t have the same feelings as you had. Someone who ignored you when you said that your hands were cold, who pulled your sleeves over your hands when what you wanted was his had in yours, someone who did hold you hand finally, after more hints, and someone who willingly gives his eyes and attention to a woman who seems sexier.

Well, if you want to give up future chances for a true two way relationship, mature love, marriage becausd this child did this thing you don’t understand, I feel sorry for you and wish you would take another look at what you are thinking and what this relationship lacked that you can have in the future. I really seriously care or I would not be up until 4 a.m. California time writing this.

Take a break from guys, from thinking these serious thoughts, decide not to date for awhile, but don’t give up totally. Actually, I remember in my twenties whenever any of my friends would take a break, the right guy would come along out of the blue.

Just have fun and forget what guys want, what other women you know think is natural, etc. Girls just want to have fun, right? Don’t make any pledges to yourself. Leave your heart open.

I leave this thread with those thoughts and wish you the best.:hug1::

 

[doglover2]

Hi Carol Wow that’s impressive that you know about sociology and counseling!!!

Yes Lukasz and I were at Carphone Warehouse and I was asking the guy about my phone stuff and Lukasz was looking at one of those model phones with internet on them. There was a picture of a woman in lingerie on the Daily Mail and he was clicking on it trying to enlarge it. Then when I came and asked what he was doing he could not help but keep clicking on it to try to enlarge it even as I was talking to him.

Yes it was inappropriate of Lukasz to do that in front of me, but what bothered me was his ability to feel physical attraction towards other females so even if he was only attracted in passing as he walked past a good looking woman, even that would have been too much, but it happens that I found out this way.

Oh okay well it’s just that in the past I thought it was so unusual and crazy for someone to be attracted to 2 people at once that I thought those people might be the type that thinks it’s cool to date 2 people at a time. As I may have mentioned, in the past I thought that only really bad men like cheaters would harbour attraction towards other women. Now I know all men do it but it still seems crazy

 

[MJJean]

Oh okay well it’s just that in the past I thought it was so unusual and crazy for someone to be attracted to 2 people at once that I thought those people might be the type that thinks it’s cool to date 2 people at a time. As I may have mentioned, in the past I thought that only really bad men like cheaters would harbour attraction towards other women. Now I know all men do it but it still seems crazy

Have you considered counseling? If you examine your mind, heart, and soul and come to the conclusion that marriage and family are what you want and are your calling then a counselor might be able to help you work through these feelings that only a bad person or cheater would feel attraction to more than one person.

 

[doglover2]

Jean, no, I don’t feel that love should override programming; I realise it doesn’t and I think I am being fairly realistic when I acknowledge the fact that this is how men are. I know it’s hard for you to conceptualise my discomfort about a guy being physically attracted to others. Maybe for you you’d feel uncomfortable if your husband was romantically attracted to others. So it’s a similar type of feeling. You feel uncomfortable whether or not the person is going to act on it. Whether or not the person chooses to feel that way, to me it still bothers me whether or not the person made that choice.

I definitely did want a husband but not a child. I wanted to marry Lukasz and it really bothers me and makes me feel empty and at a loss that I’m staying single, but alas, this issue really does bother me. It really is a dealbreaker for me. Some people can’t marry someone who has a dealbreaker like they’re not Catholic, but it doesn’t mean they don’t truly want marriage with all their heart. Well for me the dealbreaker happens to be there with all men.

Carol - I just now saw your other post - thank you so much for taking the time to write to me and to think about the situation, I’m touched <3 I want to clarify a few points because it seems like I wasn’t clear. I interpreted Lukasz’s actions as him being extremely respectful and not wanting to take action until he was 100% sure that I was interested, so no, I did not feel insecure about that. Lukasz very enthusiastically touched me back after he finally realised what I wanted and as we continued dating he would reach for my hand and put his arm around me. I did not want to set times to meet Lukasz because my ex boyfriend, Jasiek, didn’t tend to show up and I thought that Lukasz and Jasiek were similar: both criminals, both drank, etc (although Lukasz stopped drinking after we started dating).

The first time Lukasz asked me when I wanted to meet, I was reluctant and he actually did not show up because he was in jail. However after that he always came and met me at the places that he knew I ate lunch and dinner at and eventually I realised he could be trusted. I knew that if I were to ask him to meet me somewhere, he would show up and what I noticed throughout our relationship was how selfless and kind he was; he always showed up if I asked him to go to church with me or something like that, he would come with me to the hospital if I was sick and once he walked with me from west to central London which was a 4 hour walk. Actually what happened was that I wrote on a shoebox, Lukasz, do you love me? It’s fine if you don’t, I’m just curious and he wrote me Yes, so much, I missed you, really! I didn’t fall in love with him until after he was already in love with me.

I’m not offended at all but instead I am touched that you took the time to stay up late writing this and thinking about my situation and I’m sorry that I was unclear and made it seem like I was unsure of Lukasz’s feelings towards me. I believed that Lukasz was devoted to me and continued to believe this even after we had broken up. He wrote me a letter when we broke up. It’s something like this “Maja doesn’t love me any more. I don’t know when we’ll see each other or where I’ll be. But I will wait until I see her in heaven. I hope she never forgets me, I will never forget her. I will always love her.” 1.5 years later I was talking to a friend about this, and she said, you’re stupid and naive if you think that Lukasz is still in love with you. He just wrote it at the time but I’m sure he doesn’t love you any more. But I said, No, I’m sure Lukasz still loves him, I know him very well that that was not an idle comment. And I talked to him shortly afterwards and sure enough he was still in love with me. That’s just how he felt towards me. I wasn’t uncertain about it at all. But I couldn’t and cannot get past his attraction to others.

How old are you by the way?

Jean, no I don’t think only bad people or cheaters would be attracted to other person; what I mean is that years ago, I thought that being attracted to others while in a relationship was such a crazy and uncommon idea, that it probably only occurs in the minds of people who are a bit immoral. Now I know everyone is like that, even my father, male friends, etc, and even some females I know yikes haha

 

[joshvanrad]

Are you just looking for us to agree with you?

Also, if you are looking to get married you have to be open to life if you plan on following Catholic teaching. If you are not willing to try and have a child then it is probably best that you do not seek marriage.

I hope this doesn’t sound too harsh, but what you seem to want and what you need appear to be two different things.

 

[doglover2]

Hi Josh, No of course most people do not agree with me on this topic, I made this thread to be able to talk about something that was on my mind. I personally don’t want to have children; I suppose not everyone does…

 

[white_sheep]

Why not?