Why I believe many Gays turn away from the Church.

[Faithdancer]

You know what, I do think a lot of Christians and Catholics hate gays. I don’t know how many times I have read that gays pushing for marriage are selfish and are going to be the cause of the downfall of society. If you think someone is causing the downfall of society, isn’t it only logical to hate them?

In some time the church will stop talking about gay marriage just as divorce is not talked about. I wonder how many people would leave the church if priests started preaching about how anyone that is divorced needs to stay abstinent or they are committing adultery. The church might not change their stance on gay marriage but they will certainly keep it hush hush in the future.

There is no “divorce” in the Catholic Church. Every Catholic who knows their faith knows that if one is divorced in a civil procedure, one is bound to celibacy until such time as the marriage is annulled. The Catholic is then free to remarry. Priests don’t need to “preach” about this. The Catholic teaching on annulment is not what is under attack.

It is patently false that Catholics “hate gays.” Perhaps it needs to be stated again: The Catholic Church condemns homosexual activity as a gravely disordered sin. The Catholic Church accepts members who have a homosexual orientation but remain chaste. The Catholic Church will never sanction same sex “marriage,” which is an oxymoron, no matter how many American voters and politicians are deluded or intimated by the militant homosexualists.

 

[SuperLuigi]

]I agree, gay marriage is the hot topic right now, just like divorce was years ago. Women were told by their Priests and fellow Catholics that they had to stay with physically abusive husbands rather than consider the sinful act of divorce.

I’ve heard of that occurring in Protestant circles, not Catholic ones.

Suffice to say that divorce is a sin, but I fail to see how a person would have an obligation to be with someone who abuses them.

Probably more appropriate to ask an apologist on the specific nature of what the moral obligation would be in that case.

Divorce was going to destroy society and the institution of marriage. Priests DID preach about divorced people staying abstinent or they were committing adultery. Divorced people were shunned by the good married Catholics in the parish and community. I had a friend in grammar school whose parents divorced and it was horrible how the family was treated.

Divorce is destroying marriage. If divorce rates were not so high, I doubt that folks such as yourself would be so vocal about so-called “gay marriage”, and yes, people who are divorced need to follow the appropriate Church teaching.

The idea that bad hetero relationships advances your gay rights narrative is a flaw.

GLBTQ folks should take offense to the fact they are the safety net for when hetero relationships don’t work out.

BTW, divorce rates among homosexuals are comparable to or even higher than their hetero counterparts.

 

[SuperLuigi]

[Q=interestedman;9824929]You know what, I do think a lot of Christians and Catholics hate gays.

Disagreeing with so-called “gay marriage” is not hate.

I see much more hate coming from straights who run around trying to look and feel good and tolerant.

This is the same crop of folks who will also rush to the defense of feminism and Islam while beat Christians with a stick.

I don’t know how many times I have read that gays pushing for marriage are selfish

Frankly, it is selfish. Gay relationships fundamentally seek only the pleasures of the partners, and now you want us to subsidize that and teach sex to 5 year olds so that people can feel good.

A priest once told me

To be selfish is to be as close to the devil as you can get, because God is all good and generous.

and are going to be the cause of the downfall of society.

I think that endorsements of gay behavior is more a symptom than a cause, but it doesn’t help, especially when the state is invested in gay relationships.

If you think someone is causing the downfall of society, isn’t it only logical to hate them?

I’d say it’s logical not to invest in what they are doing or what they want and to correct them.

There is no place for hate in the Church, but what you are doing

In some time the church will stop talking about gay marriage just as divorce is not talked about.

Divorced is discussed at marriage prep sessions.

I wonder how many people would leave the church if priests started preaching about how anyone that is divorced needs to stay abstinent or they are committing adultery.

Some priests I’m sure do talk about those things, but scolding people every week at the pulpit or preaching on the street corner uptown yelling REPENT can do more harm than good.

My guess a lot of that occurs in the confessional or at a private meeting with the priest when a couple (or individual) asks for an annulment.

The church might not change their stance on gay marriage but they will certainly keep it hush hush in the future.

Given the current global demographic situation and the sharp, stark rise of Islam, I would say that the gay rights movement is going to be a passing fad, one way or another.

I think you’re getting the wrong idea about the vocal nature of the Church. It isn’t as, shall we say, belligerent as political campaigns are.

 

[Publisher]

In my experience with those gay and lesbiam people I am acquainted with, they are not ignorant of the disdain they get from “Christians”. Just a cursory read of this thread gives a very “telling” message as to why gay people walk away from the church. Quite simply, the ARE NOT loved…they ARE NOT afforded the dignity and compassion from “Christians”.

Their motives are slandered. They are called “selfish”…“disordered”…“abominations”…they are told they are going to hell. They are ostracized, called “child molestors”…“depraved destroyers of marriage and family”…“destructors of society”…none of which could stand up in the scrutiny of even being remotely examples of “love”. Who said something to the effect “truth without compassion is brutality”? Gay people ARE brutalized by those who claim to follow Jesus of Nazareth…why on God’s green earth would anyone wish to subject themselves to such abuse?

Most gay men and lesbian women deal with rejection and abuse from family, friends and society EVERY DAY as it is. Why would they wish to enter a place of supposed sanctuary where the love and mercy of God’s grace is not exibited towards them…yet it is claimed that it is?

To the point of the previous few posts…they also are very aware of the hypocricy within the church that for the most part embraces those straight people “living in sin” without the same vitrol being heaped upon them…why? Because a great number of your straight people would walk too…no doubt the church has it’s stance on divorce and remarriage as well as same sex marriage…BUT gay people are very much a small minority who are seeking marriage as compared to those straight people in your midst who officially are outside the doctrinal confines of human sexuality as gay people are…but with little or no consequence…oh there may be a cursury mention behind closed doors…annulment processes may be in place to help recitify some of the illicit relationships among straight people…but for the most part a blind eye is turned and very little is done in comparison toward straight people to make the straight feel just as unwelcome as gay people are made to feel…even though gay people are the very smallest percentage of those on the “outs” when it comes to sexual conduct.

I have attended MCC with some gay friends several times…as one sits in the congregation and observes, you can always tell who the new-commers are. When the invitation is given to receive the eucharist, many are in tears if not open sobbing as they walk to the alter rail to receive communion…oh…and yes I know according to Catholics it’s not the “real eucharist”…but I doubt if those going forward to recieve the body and blood of Christ has that thought crossing their minds…what they hear is “This is the Table of the Lord…He welcomes all at his Table, no one will be turned away, come and receive healing for your wounded heart, your broken lives” It is a very moving scene to watch men and women of “former faith” for the first time in years to hear that they are loved by God.

No, gay people don’t walk away because they “refuse to give up their lifestyle”…“are selfish”…they walk away because their hearts yearn to be loved and healed…and they’re not going to get it in church from their all to painful experience.

 

[SuperLuigi]

There is no “divorce” in the Catholic Church. Every Catholic who knows their faith knows that if one is divorced in a civil procedure, one is bound to celibacy until such time as the marriage is annulled. The Catholic is then free to remarry. Priests don’t need to “preach” about this. The Catholic teaching on annulment is not what is under attack.

It is patently false that Catholics “hate gays.” Perhaps it needs to be stated again: The Catholic Church condemns homosexual activity as a gravely disordered sin. The Catholic Church accepts members who have a homosexual orientation but remain chaste. The Catholic Church will never sanction same sex “marriage,” which is an oxymoron, no matter how many American voters and politicians are deluded or intimated by the militant homosexualists.

Hm, well, that says it better than I did.

Interestedman, I hope that you can understand that disagreeing with homosexual behavior (whether done by gay or straights) is not hate.

Catholic teaching also is against premarital sex and has a dim view on co-habitation, but that doesn’t mean we hate fornicators or people who live together and aren’t married.

 

[peace2u2]

I don’t think you can really choose to be an atheist. I think you come to the conclusion that God likely does not exist. I don’t think you can say “I don’t agree with the Bible so I’m going to stop believing in God.” It doesn’t really work like that.

I agree that atheist come to the conclusion that God does not exist; they are not born that way. Children are not born atheist. They grow into being an atheist. They are either taught that God does not exist and this thinking is past on to them from the people who raised them or they sustain such suffering on their souls that they come to this conclusion which is quite sad to think there is no hope but what is offered here on earth.

We all have the natural ability to reason and come to conclusions. Yet, we are very limited. We need God Himself to reveal who He is and tell us who He is and what He is like.

What is so awesome about God is that He loves us so much that He does reveal Himself to us in more ways than one. God did not leave us alone.

God reveals Himself through His creation. And, our human minds can find God in what God has made. For example, if you base your ideas about who and what is God based on the idea of a machine, like the watch on my wrist or the computer I am typing on, we find that it did not just make itself all by itself. A watch and a computer among other things have a maker, someone created it. Certainly, God’s greatest creation, US, and the Universe are far more intrinsic and fabulous than a machine like a watch or a computer.

God created everything out of nothing to share His love and goodness. How lucky we are those who come to discover the beauty of God. Keep praying for the conversion of those who do not believe in our Heavenly Father. And, may the Almighty, all-powerful, loving God reveal Himself to those who do not believe so that you may have the fullness of His joy and peace here on earth that will lead you home to Heaven for eternity. Peace

 

[Publisher]

Perhaps another reason gay and lesbian people walk away from church is as they seek to share their pain and rejection, they are told over and over…while being overtly rejected and disdained…“We don’t reject you…we love you.” I sure as hell could do without “love” like that…don’t know why they would accept it any better. And I dare say if any on this board experienced that type of “love”…a different “tune” would be sung.

 

[interestedman]

I agree, gay marriage is the hot topic right now, just like divorce was years ago. Women were told by their Priests and fellow Catholics that they had to stay with physically abusive husbands rather than consider the sinful act of divorce. Divorce was going to destroy society and the institution of marriage. Priests DID preach about divorced people staying abstinent or they were committing adultery. Divorced people were shunned by the good married Catholics in the parish and community. I had a friend in grammar school whose parents divorced and it was horrible how the family was treated.

This is exactly my point. In 25 years this is exactly how gay marriage will be. It will still be considered a sin, but priests aren’t going to preach about it.

 

[Seeker1961]

In my experience with those gay and lesbiam people I am acquainted with, they are not ignorant of the disdain they get from “Christians”. Just a cursory read of this thread gives a very “telling” message as to why gay people walk away from the church. Quite simply, the ARE NOT loved…they ARE NOT afforded the dignity and compassion from “Christians”.

Their motives are slandered. They are called “selfish”…“disordered”…“abominations”…they are told they are going to hell. They are ostracized, called “child molestors”…“depraved destroyers of marriage and family”…“destructors of society”…none of which could stand up in the scrutiny of even being remotely examples of “love”. Who said something to the effect “truth without compassion is brutality”? Gay people ARE brutalized by those who claim to follow Jesus of Nazareth…why on God’s green earth would anyone wish to subject themselves to such abuse?

Most gay men and lesbian women deal with rejection and abuse from family, friends and society EVERY DAY as it is. Why would they wish to enter a place of supposed sanctuary where the love and mercy of God’s grace is not exibited towards them…yet it is claimed that it is?

To the point of the previous few posts…they also are very aware of the hypocricy within the church that for the most part embraces those straight people “living in sin” without the same vitrol being heaped upon them…why? Because a great number of your straight people would walk too…no doubt the church has it’s stance on divorce and remarriage as well as same sex marriage…BUT gay people are very much a small minority who are seeking marriage as compared to those straight people in your midst who officially are outside the doctrinal confines of human sexuality as gay people are…but with little or no consequence…oh there may be a cursury mention behind closed doors…annulment processes may be in place to help recitify some of the illicit relationships among straight people…but for the most part a blind eye is turned and very little is done in comparison toward straight people to make the straight feel just as unwelcome as gay people are made to feel…even though gay people are the very smallest percentage of those on the “outs” when it comes to sexual conduct.

I have attended MCC with some gay friends several times…as one sits in the congregation and observes, you can always tell who the new-commers are. When the invitation is given to receive the eucharist, many are in tears if not open sobbing as they walk to the alter rail to receive communion…oh…and yes I know according to Catholics it’s not the “real eucharist”…but I doubt if those going forward to recieve the body and blood of Christ has that thought crossing their minds…what they hear is “This is the Table of the Lord…He welcomes all at his Table, no one will be turned away, come and receive healing for your wounded heart, your broken lives” It is a very moving scene to watch men and women of “former faith” for the first time in years to hear that they are loved by God.

No, gay people don’t walk away because they “refuse to give up their lifestyle”…“are selfish”…they walk away because their hearts yearn to be loved and healed…and they’re not going to get it in church from their all to painful experience.

Perhaps another reason gay and lesbian people walk away from church is as they seek to share their pain and rejection, they are told over and over…while being overtly rejected and disdained…“We don’t reject you…we love you.” I sure as hell could do without “love” like that…don’t know why they would accept it any better. And I dare say if any on this board experienced that type of “love”…a different “tune” would be sung.

I can’t possibly say it better than you have, thank you.

 

[interestedman]

There is no “divorce” in the Catholic Church. Every Catholic who knows their faith knows that if one is divorced in a civil procedure, one is bound to celibacy until such time as the marriage is annulled. The Catholic is then free to remarry. **Priests don’t need to “preach” about this. **The Catholic teaching on annulment is not what is under attack.

It is patently false that Catholics “hate gays.” Perhaps it needs to be stated again: The Catholic Church condemns homosexual activity as a gravely disordered sin. The Catholic Church accepts members who have a homosexual orientation but remain chaste. The Catholic Church will never sanction same sex “marriage,” which is an oxymoron, no matter how many American voters and politicians are deluded or intimated by the militant homosexualists.

Priests don’t need to preach about it? Civil divorce and remarriage without annulment is FAR more common than gay marriage. So why don’t priests need to preach about it like gay marriage? Oh, because it would alienate far too many people within the church? Gay marriage will still be a sin in the future, but the priests will be tight lipped about it.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Perhaps another reason gay and lesbian people walk away from church is as they seek to share their pain and rejection, they are told over and over…while being overtly rejected and disdained…“We don’t reject you…we love you.” I sure as @#!*% could do without “love” like that…don’t know why they would accept it any better. And I dare say if any on this board experienced that type of “love”…a different “tune” would be sung.

this makes no sense, this would mean i would hate my kids, or love them less if they were gay, used contraception, got divorced, lived in sin, mastrubated,fantasied about other women, had an abortion etc.
i won’t ever love them less, that means, i will also not lie to them and tell them I believe God is okay with what they are doing. to do that and not to pray for them in the hope they change would be not loving them.
the above list also means i find it hard to live up to the church’s teachings on sex but i try, if i try and fail occasionly does that make me a hypocrite? if so, then I am, i beleive in the teachings but find it hard to live up to them.

 

[LaMusicaSenior]

Priests don’t need to preach about it? Civil divorce and remarriage without annulment is FAR more common than gay marriage. So why don’t priests need to preach about it like gay marriage? Oh, because it would alienate far too many people within the church? Gay marriage will still be a sin in the future, but the priests will be tight lipped about it.

This is why I pray daily for a strenghtening of our priests who care more about the state of the person’s soul than the state of them taking offense at the truth. It does take courage to say a Sunday homily simply becasue no one like being told they are sinning.

 

[interestedman]

Hm, well, that says it better than I did.

Interestedman, I hope that you can understand that disagreeing with homosexual behavior (whether done by gay or straights) is not hate.

Catholic teaching also is against premarital sex and has a dim view on co-habitation, but that doesn’t mean we hate fornicators or people who live together and aren’t married.

Disagreeing with homosexual behavior isn’t hate…but many Catholics and Christians hate gays…I would say that a whole lot of people on this board hate gays whether they believe it or not. I guarantee that a LOT of people on these boards, if they saw two men holding hands and maybe giving each other an innocent kiss on the lips, would get upset and show serious resentment towards them. That is hate in my opinion.

 

[SuperLuigi]

In my experience with those gay and lesbiam people I am acquainted with, they are not ignorant of the disdain they get from “Christians”.

Fraternal correction and telling the Truth is not “disdain”, nor is defending the appropriate Church teaching, which is Truth or that several aspects of the gay rights movement violate my Constitutional rights.

Just a cursory read of this thread gives a very “telling” message as to why gay people walk away from the church. Quite simply, the ARE NOT loved…they ARE NOT afforded the dignity and compassion from “Christians”.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Disagreeing with homosexual behavior isn’t hate…but many Catholics and Christians hate gays…I would say that a whole lot of people on this board hate gays whether they believe it or not. I guarantee that a LOT of people on these boards, if they saw two men holding hands and maybe giving each other an innocent kiss on the lips, would get upset and show serious resentment towards them. That is hate in my opinion.

strange, have you supernatural ability that you know the hearts of people you have never met. so what porpotion of people is this? is it all people who post regularly? rarely? often? on which section or is it?right across the board?these people you know of

 

[interestedman]

I agree that atheist come to the conclusion that God does not exist; they are not born that way. Children are not born atheist. They grow into being an atheist. They are either taught that God does not exist and this thinking is past on to them from the people who raised them or they sustain such suffering on their souls that they come to this conclusion which is quite sad to think there is no hope but what is offered here on earth.

Sorry, this is actually the opposite. Everyone is born an atheist and then is taught religion. The fact that you think it is the other way around is absolutely laughable.

You really think that if a child never heard of God and you asked them “do you believe there is an all powerful being that is watching over everyone and judges you when you die” that they would say “of course…how could I not come to that conclusion.”

Everyone is born an atheist. And if religion wasn’t taught then there wouldn’t be such a correlation between the religion of parents and their children.

 

[interestedman]

We all have the natural ability to reason and come to conclusions. Yet, we are very limited. We need God Himself to reveal who He is and tell us who He is and what He is like.

If this was true, why are there different religions? And why does God seem to pretty much always reveal himself in the form of the religion of a child’s parents? Hmmm, maybe because religion is taught.

 

[CopticChristian]

Dan Savage is actually a very proud Catholic…

Blue,

You just lost all credibility. If you listen to Savage in debate, he was raised Catholic, however when speaking of religion, he speaks as if he is acquainted with Protestant thought and not Catholic thought. He appears to have been poorly Catechized. He says things like…concerning slavery “The bible got it wrong”…well that is a Protestant point of view and not a Catholic point of view providing insight into Savage’s warped mind.

 

[interestedman]

strange, have you supernatural ability that you know the hearts of people you have never met. so what porpotion of people is this? is it all people who post regularly? rarely? often? on which section or is it?right across the board?these people you know of

Do I know the hearts of people I don’t know? I guess not. Can I read through thinly veiled hate on an internet forum…yes, and it doesn’t even take supernatural ability.

 

[interestedman]

Blue,

You just lost all credibility. If you listen to Savage in debate, he was raised Catholic, however when speaking of religion, he speaks as if he is acquainted with Protestant thought and not Catholic thought. He appears to have been poorly Catechized. He says things like…concerning slavery “The bible got it wrong”…well that is a Protestant point of view and not a Catholic point of view providing insight into Savage’s warped mind.

It is a protestant point of view that slavery is wrong? Paul had a whole letter to condemn slavery and didn’t. Actually I don’t think slavery was condemned in the Bible at all. How can you not say that the Bible got it wrong?