Why I believe many Gays turn away from the Church.

[Richca]

I totally agree with mymamamary’s post. According to the Bible and the Catholic Church, homosexuality is gravely sinful. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God plain and simple. They need to come to grips with the truth that their behavior is wrong and sinful and then pray to God for help to change their behavior. The church wouldn’t be doing any good to homosexuals if it said to homosexuals, “sure come on in, be a part of the church and continue with your lifestyle”. Then when these people die they go off to eternal punishment. Is that charity or love of your neighbor? No, that is hating your neighbor and something the devil would do. The church welcomes individuals who may have a homosexual inclination but who are not actively practicing it. It is sinful to be actively practicing the lifestyle. A lot of people don’t come to the church because they are engaging in prostitution, adultery, pornography, fornication, drug trafficing, etc. Should the church tell these people too that their lifestyle is okay? We all have temptations, not just homosexuals. But to follow Jesus Christ means to fight against our evil inclinations and desires and hopefully attain the kingdom of God. Yes, Jesus died for all mankind. But as Jesus said, it is not those who say to him Lord, Lord who will enter the kingdom of God. But those who do the will of my Father in heaven.

 

[Faithdancer]

I totally agree with mymamamary’s post. According to the Bible and the Catholic Church, homosexuality is gravely sinful. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God plain and simple. They need to come to grips with the truth that their behavior is wrong and sinful and then pray to God for help to change their behavior. The church wouldn’t be doing any good to homosexuals if it said to homosexuals, “sure come on in, be a part of the church and continue with your lifestyle”. Then when these people die they go off to eternal punishment. Is that charity or love of your neighbor? No, that is hating your neighbor and something the devil would do. The church welcomes individuals who may have a homosexual inclination but who are not actively practicing it. It is sinful to be actively practicing the lifestyle. A lot of people don’t come to the church because they are engaging in prostitution, adultery, pornography, fornication, drug trafficing, etc. Should the church tell these people too that their lifestyle is okay? We all have temptations, not just homosexuals. But to follow Jesus Christ means to fight against our evil inclinations and desires and hopefully attain the kingdom of God. Yes, Jesus died for all mankind. But as Jesus said, it is not those who say to him Lord, Lord who will enter the kingdom of God. But those who do the will of my Father in heaven.

Well said. And whether one is homosexual first and then rejects God, or rejects God first and then becomes homosexual, the result is the same-
rejection of God.

 

[cubalibre]

Let me speak as an atheist: As a former Christian turned atheist, I can see it really wasn’t a choice. To a large extent (maybe entirely) I don’t think you can choose to believe anything. For some reason that baffles me, people think you can choose what you believe. They will say, “Well, you can choose to believe that if you want to blah-blah,” but you really can’t. To use a really simple example, say that you wanted to believe that 2 + 2 = 5, could you? I doubt it. Other things like belief in God aren’t so clear-cut. There are arguments on both sides. Sometimes your belief may even switch sides – and switch back. But I really doubt that you can CHOOSE to believe something. Certain things have to be in place: You have to have logic or evidence that it’s possible, for one thing.
My disbelief in God may serve as an example: I won’t go through all my reasons I gave up my belief other than to say I reached a point where I felt to retain my intellectual integrity, I had to incline toward what was most likely, which was there was no God. So many more things made sense then. The heathen, extraterrestrials, an afterlife, scores of religions, and why all the prayers said so diligently by so many people for so long remained unanswered.
I don’t know how the universe was created, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t by some supernatural entity snapping his supernatural fingers and boldly declaring: “LET THERE BE LIGHT!”

Is it really more comprehensible to believe otherwise? Scientifically we know that the universe began 14 billion years ago from a singularity. How and why this existed or why it expanded to our current universe is unknown. Before the 1920’s most scientists believed the universe had no beginning. They believed like the pagans and the Mormons that matter always existed. Modern cosmology actually fits Judeo-Christian belief quite nicely.

 

[interestedman]

Gays can be assured that the Catholic Church will never bend its teachings to accommodate homosexual activity. It is up to homosexuals to change, to adopt total chastity if they want to be part of the Catholic Church. If they are obstinately unwilling to do so, then they separate themselves from God, not the converse.:byzsoc::harp:

Well they separate themselves from the God that you believe in. There are plenty of Christians that believe that a homosexual lifestyle is completely compatible with God’s teachings.

 

[interestedman]

Well said. And whether one is homosexual first and then rejects God, or rejects God first and then becomes homosexual, the result is the same-
rejection of God.

Atheism is not a rejection of God. It is a rejection of the idea that God even exists. Totally different. You make it seem like atheists deep down know that God exists, they just pretend he doesn’t to fit their world views. This is not true.

 

[michelleds]

Right, well, we are not really exploring whether same sex attraction is right or wrong but mainly the point about why “some” Gays turn away from the Church if they do and if it might spur on an atheistic sentiment. Obviously, it does not always but I do find a number of Gays seem to question their being a divine being.

In my own experience (you can find my personal history in several posts across this sub-forum), I rejected God because I erroneously believed that just having feelings of same-sex attraction was sending me straight to hell. Because I couldn’t, or didn’t believe, that I could change my feelings, and I couldn’t live with that very raw wound of abandonment by God, I chose to stop believing in God.

I was never an athiest. I couldn’t get that far in my denial. But I did claim to be agnostic. When that didn’t work, I tried to reformulate God by embracing New Age/Paganism.

I know/knew many LGBT people who claimed to be athiest, not because it was a well thought out proposition, but because they had a childlike belief that “if I cover my eyes, you can’t see me” in regards to God.

 

[Faithdancer]

Well they separate themselves from the God that you believe in. There are plenty of Christians that believe that a homosexual lifestyle is completely compatible with God’s teachings.

Those Christians are in error, and if you are referring to Christians of a denomination other than Catholicism, they are in error about other things as well, regardless of the truth that there is only one God, whose mercy and love you do reject, whatever kind of spin you want to put on it.

 

[Faithdancer]

In my own experience (you can find my personal history in several posts across this sub-forum), I rejected God because I erroneously believed that just having feelings of same-sex attraction was sending me straight to hell. Because I couldn’t, or didn’t believe, that I could change my feelings, and I couldn’t live with that very raw wound of abandonment by God, I chose to stop believing in God.

I was never an athiest. I couldn’t get that far in my denial. But I did claim to be agnostic. When that didn’t work, I tried to reformulate God by embracing New Age/Paganism.

I know/knew many LGBT people who claimed to be athiest, not because it was a well thought out proposition, but because they had a childlike belief that “if I cover my eyes, you can’t see me” in regards to God.

Michelle, God bless you and your last sentence, which is beautiful, reminds me of this passage from John 3:19: “And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.”:angel1:

 

[Faithdancer]

At the age of 15, I chose not to believe. At the age of 42, I chose to believe.

Deo gratias!

 

[Faithdancer]

Actually it happened like this: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.” (John 1: 1-3). This is deeply theological and if you prefer your simplistic misunderstanding of Christian teaching, erroneous though it is, suit yourself. Regarding the mocking sarcasm however, you should remember where you are posting.

 

[Nate13]

In my opinion the biggest factor keeping homosexual people out of the Church is that most people have no ability to feel empathy for what they have to deal with. In many cases just the thought of homosexual acts is naturally repulsive to people. Then on the other side you have homosexual people being preached the doctrine of victim-hood and being told that every conservative hates gay people. This results in an instinctual mistrust of all traditional Christians by homosexual people, which is amplified by the fact that neither side can seem to understand each other very well to begin with.

 

[andrewstx]

I think so many gays turn from the church(es) becuase they have the mistaken idea from fundamentalism and a handfull of misinformed Catholics that God hates them and they decide to hate God back. A lot of homosexauls are convinced by their fundamentalist/evangelical churches that God hates them just for their attactions and just go ahead and become promiscous.

But that is not true for all. I have a gay cousin in Dallas who was raised in the ultra-conservative"church of Christ" he switched to a less conservative denomination, and strives to live chastely.

 

[interestedman]

In my opinion the biggest factor keeping homosexual people out of the Church is that most people have no ability to feel empathy for what they have to deal with. In many cases just the thought of homosexual acts is naturally repulsive to people. Then on the other side you have homosexual people being preached the doctrine of victim-hood and being told that every conservative hates gay people. This results in an instinctual mistrust of all traditional Christians by homosexual people, which is amplified by the fact that neither side can seem to understand each other very well to begin with.

You can say that Catholics hate the sin, not the sinner, but its pretty much the same thing. “I don’t hate you, I just hate how you show love for your partner and think it will send you to hell.” If someone told me that about the way I show love for my wife I would tell them in not so kind words that I wouldn’t want anything to do with them.

 

[Elizabeth502]

You can say that Catholics hate the sin, not the sinner, but its pretty much the same thing. “I don’t hate you, I just hate how you show love for your partner and think it will send you to hell.” If someone told me that about the way I show love for my wife I would tell them in not so kind words that I wouldn’t want anything to do with them.

Do you actually imagine that people are so cold and callous as to directly insult particular people who are behaving immorally? So if someone meets an alcoholic and “hates” how the alcoholic is destroying himself, the non-alcoholic declares, without prompting, that he or she “hates” the alcoholic’s dependency behavior?

What other stereotypes and exaggerations would you like to introduce?



Apparently it’s not within the realm of possibility that the vast majority of caring people of any religious beliefs don’t even address the issue? Why would you assume anyone is interested in confronting the immoral behavior of others, whatever the behavior, unless such behavior is also illegal or extremely dangerous (to self or others) in an imminent way?

OTOH, what you prefer to do is to assume what faithful Catholics are or not thinking (“hate”) when they merely interact with people living a homosexual lifestyle, and your judgment (not theirs) is that such suppositions on your part give you the right to

tell them in not so kind words that I wouldn’t want anything to do with them

 

[Nate13]

You can say that Catholics hate the sin, not the sinner, but its pretty much the same thing. “I don’t hate you, I just hate how you show love for your partner and think it will send you to hell.” If someone told me that about the way I show love for my wife I would tell them in not so kind words that I wouldn’t want anything to do with them.

And that is your prerogative yet if you stopped for a second and thought about it you would realize that if I hated you I wouldn’t have bothered wasting my time telling you that you were doing something wrong that could put you in Hell. Think of it like this. Lets say I’m about to cross a rope bridge over a ravine that to all appearances looks like its in good shape. However you 100% believe the bridge is on the verge of breaking. What would the loving thing be for you to do in that case? Let me walk over the bridge to what you are convinced is almost certain death without saying anything, or warn me you believe the bridge is about to break? If you speak up and tell me not to walk over the bridge does that make you a hater of people that cross bridges?

 

[aragonjohn1]

i cannot see why they would since there are so many papal encyclicals preaching(?) the dignity and vocation of homosexuals ( Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection (CCC 2359).)

• newadvent.org/utility/search.htm?safe=active&cx=000299817191393086628%3Aifmbhlr-8x0&q=homosexuality&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A9

though in my opinion it is possible that the yellow press has forgotten to include a couple things when talking about Catholic social justice and Catholic moral teaching

Shalom
God Bless

 

[Faithdancer]

i cannot see why they would since there are so many papal encyclicals preaching(?) the dignity and vocation of homosexuals ( Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection (CCC 2359).)

• newadvent.org/utility/search.htm?safe=active&cx=000299817191393086628%3Aifmbhlr-8x0&q=homosexuality&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A9

though in my opinion it is possible that the yellow press has forgotten to include a couple things when talking about Catholic social justice and Catholic moral teaching

Shalom
God Bless

Amen. And what the homosexualists keep ignoring, although they’ve been told many times on these forums, is that all Catholic Christians are called to chastity. The chastity requirement for homosexuals is exactly the same as it is for single heterosexuals in the Catholic Church- no sexual activity, period. The Catholic faith demands constant striving for purity, and is not for the weak-willed or the lukewarm.

 

[dchezik]

Actually it happened like this: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.” (John 1: 1-3). This is deeply theological and if you prefer your simplistic misunderstanding of Christian teaching, erroneous though it is, suit yourself. Regarding the mocking sarcasm however, you should remember where you are posting.

Do you understand this??? The Word? What Word? The Word was God? What does that mean? Does this make the study of cosmology irrelevant? Have we now understood the origin of the universe? Should we inform scientists like Hawking and the others that there is no need to expatiate further. We now know how the universe began. I’m sorry about the sarcasm! I got carried away!

Can you help me understand Christian teaching on this? Can you tell me what Christian teaching has to say about other universes?

If you will enlighten on Christian teaching, I will try to teach you something about modern cosmology. Fair enough?

 

[aragonjohn1]

Amen. And what the homosexualists keep ignoring, although they’ve been told many times on these forums, is that all Catholic Christians are called to chastity. The chastity requirement for homosexuals is exactly the same as it is for single heterosexuals in the Catholic Church- no sexual activity, period. The Catholic faith demands constant striving for purity, and is not for the weak-willed or the lukewarm.

A M E N to your’e Amen : )

 

[aragonjohn1]

Do you understand this??? The Word? What Word? The Word was God? What does that mean? Does this make the study of cosmology irrelevant? Have we now understood the origin of the universe? Should we inform scientists like Hawking and the others that there is no need to expatiate further. We now know how the universe began. I’m sorry about the sarcasm! I got carried away!

Can you help me understand Christian teaching on this? Can you tell me what Christian teaching has to say about other universes?

If you will enlighten on Christian teaching, I will try to teach you something about modern cosmology. Fair enough?

if you are inerested in those aspects of the Catholic faith i recommend Fr Spitzer and those at the magis institute

• ignatius.com/Products/NPEG-P/new-proofs-for-the-existence-of-god.aspx
• en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Spitzer_(priest)#Writing_and_publications
• magisreasonfaith.org/encyclopedias.html

there are quite a few others besides these people but in my opinion they do the best job of explaining those aspects of authorative chrch teaching and discipline and how they relate to modern cosmology.

Shalom
God Bless you on your journey