Why I believe many Gays turn away from the Church.

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Tell me, why are Catholics opposed to gay marriage? After all, nobody will force them to marry members of the same sex, so why the fuss?

Because Catholics are opposed to gay marriage because they think that: (1) gay sex is inherently evil and (2) the state should make all evil acts illegal.

There. When you vote, that what you believe, will affect others who don’t believe in what you believe.
Wrong. The reasons for opposition to a faux (“gay,” homosexual) marriage have been abundantly presented on this discussion forum. Do a search. It gets tiresome to repeat the prinicples, which are also linked as stickies on the Social Justice forum.

So that’s for starters: You’re simply wrong about your assumptions (i.e., reasoning).
Two, lots of non-Catholics and non-believers also do not support faux marriage, and have voted against it and have every intention of voting against it. And you won’t silence them either, because selective suspension of their First Amendment Rights is as illegal as suspending the beliefs and opinions of any other individual, Catholic or not. Three, all kinds of values and morals are not only built into one’s family culture and community culture (religious or not), they neither can be nor should be selectively erased from voting decisions and publicly expressed opinions. We bring our entire perspective into our civic involvement.

Gotta love this, as it confirms what historians have observed: What the extreme Left and the extreme Right have in common is the determination to exercise radical control over others, including in the minutiae and privacy of individual lives. (Freedom, not. ;))
😉
 
as all of us would be then when we don’t live a chaste life
Exactly. The only difference is that homosexuals do not have the option of “chastity within marriage” since same sex “marriage,” as has been said many, many times on these forums, is an oxymoron.

And before the homosexualist fringe goes off on these statements yet again, they should remember that they are statements which reflect Roman Catholic teachings, not the teachings of the Rastafarians or the Moonies or the Reformed Shakers or the First Church of Brother Leroy.
 
Grace & Peace!

Here’s the problem, Faithdancer. DeCourcy said that gay people have a demon. All gay people. Now, you may appeal to the specialist definition of “gay” which often appears on these forums (i.e., a same sex attracted person who actively engages in homosexual sexual activity, defines him- or herself according to their sexuality, and participates in and/or promotes [either implicitly or explicitly] a particular political agenda informed by post-modern relativist identity politics), but to the vast majority of folks out there in the real world, “gay” just means someone who is same sex attracted, regardless of whether or not they engage in homosexual sex. DeCourcy did not care to clarify that he was speaking of same-sex attracted folks who engage in homosexual sex.

So to the average person who may have stumbled onto these forums (and who may be struggling with their religion and their sexuality), DeCourcy’s post says to them: same-sex attracted folks have a demon and they love evil. He continues, though, to equate any sort of homosexual, chaste or no (note that his example references only tendencies and desires, so every same-sex attracted person is pretty much covered), to vampires, the basic point being: same-sex attracted people are soul-less monsters.

By defending DeCourcy, you’ve said to the aforementioned average person stumbling onto these forums that it is entirely appropriate to say that same-sex attracted people are demonic, evil-loving and monstrous. Moreover, your defense implies that making such comparisons can be justified by the moral theology they actually caricature and debase, suggesting thereby that such comparisons and views are totally orthodox and should be seen as uncontroversial because the moral theology that ostensibly supports such views (even though they’re caricatures) should be uncontroversial. But what you don’t seem to realize is that associating such views with orthodox moral theology does not rehabilitate the views, but damages the credibility of the theology and damages your own moral credibility for thinking that the views and the theology are perfectly compatible.

I can understand the desire to defend moral theology against those ignorant of it or vehemently opposed to it, but when the line you draw against detractors and others actually puts on your “side” of the line dehumanizing rhetoric that is just this side of crazy, then I think you need to be more careful about where you’re drawing that line.

Anyway, if any were still wondering “why gays turn away from the Church,” reading DeCourcy’s post and your defense of it should answer the question quite handily.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
Thank you.
 
Wrong. The reasons for opposition to a faux (“gay,” homosexual) marriage have been abundantly presented on this discussion forum. Do a search. It gets tiresome to repeat the prinicples, which are also linked as stickies on the Social Justice forum.
The reasons you are referring to are not the real reasons, they are ex post rationalizations. Even the CA page on marriage includes the following statement:
In fact, recognition of this intrinsically disordered behavior can have only bad effects on society.
There you gave it.

You would have a point if the Church only limited itself to saying that gay marriage is an oxymoron – which, paradoxically, is something I completely agree with. The institution of marriage we have was originally developed for heterosexual couples raising progeny. I’d even agree with the view that homosexual couples should not be allowed to raise kids.

However, the Church opposes introducing any kind of legal instruments allowing committed homosexuals to register a partnership. In 2007, a law was under discussion in Italy, which would
allow all couples who aren’t married to have rights to inheritance, to receive couples’ medical insurance, to be able to visit their partner in prisons and hospitals, and to be able to make choices for partners who are sick.
And this is what the current Pope had to say about that law:
Projects aimed at granting improper legal recognition to forms of unions other [than traditional marriage] appear dangerous and counterproductive as they inevitably weaken and destabilize the legitimate family based on matrimony
Wha… what? This is a complete non-sequitur. How does giving the gay couples right to use each other’s insurance affect heterosexual couples? The law would not even concern them at all!
 
Christ came for all of us, but so many homosexuals don’t want Christ. The Church developed a way for people with homosxuality to get into Heaven - to live chaste lives. They want no part in that, and want marital rights instead. There’s nothing we can really do to fix that.
Everyone thinks this gay thing is new but as said before, the Greeks and then Romans apparently practiced it a good deal.
This is one of the first times homosexual sex has been considered as anything more than just a fun past time to do with your buddy. The Romans had plenty of gay sex, but it was all just for fun, very different from modern idea which is committed relationships between two people of the same sex.
 
Christ came for all of us, but so many homosexuals don’t want Christ.
So many homosexuals don’t want a Christ whose followers spread hate and persecute them. Who would want to follow a Christ like that?
 
They want people that will love and respect them, like Jesus would.
Loving them does not mean approving of ersatz “marriage.”
Respecting them does not mean approving of ersatz “marriage.”

“Like Jesus would”: Jesus loved and respected those whose lifestyles he disapproved of and conseled to leave those lifestyles behind.

As Crescentinus just said, Love does not equal Enabling. Not in parenting, not in friendships, not in human or divine love.

Loving and respecting them entails treating them no differently, in our personal relations with them, than we treat heterosexuals. Having a position on institutionalizing a lifestyle and pretending that it is parallel, let alone equivalent, to heterosexual marriage, has nothing to do with the terms “love” and “respect.”
Elizabeth502 said:
What is appropriate to “sympathize” with …is not the wish to legalize an unhealthy lifestyle, but merely the existence of the homosexual urgings themselves. Plenty of CAF’ers with such urgings have discussed, over the last 4 years, the unwanted and troubling nature of these attractions, and the destabilizing effect of indulging in those attractions.

The sympathy should be directed toward the struggle and the effort to resist what they themselves have acknowledged has not led to long-lasting contentment (such as is possible in heterosexual marriage) when/if they have acted on those attractions. It should also be directed toward their consciousness of sometimes ‘feeling different’ in ways other than physical attraction, as well as the ‘fear factor’ when it comes to being accepted as equally human, equally sanctifiable, equally needy in affection, equally gifted with potential, etc. That is the equality which should be furthered and cherished.
 
Loving them does not mean approving of ersatz “marriage.”
Respecting them does not mean approving of ersatz “marriage.”

“Like Jesus would”: Jesus loved and respected those whose lifestyles he disapproved of and conseled to leave those lifestyles behind.

As Crescentinus just said, Love does not equal Enabling. Not in parenting, not in friendships, not in human or divine love.

Loving and respecting them entails treating them no differently, in our personal relations with them, than we treat heterosexuals. Having a position on institutionalizing a lifestyle and pretending that it is parallel, let alone equivalent, to heterosexual marriage, has nothing to do with the terms “love” and “respect.”
The difference is that Jesus has the moral authority to choose what lifestyles he approves of and does not…you don’t.
 
The difference is that Jesus has the moral authority to choose what lifestyles he approves of and does not…you don’t.
Interested,

and you may want to check and see that on a CAF site you are dealing with Catholics that believe that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, through which the manifold wisodom of God is known…the Church is the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ and Christ is the head and all teachings come by Christ through the Church and the moral authority of Jesus/God comes through the Church…so while you may say that we do not have the authority to approve of a lifestyle, you are correct…

We are obligated to follow Christ and the teachings of His Church and we believe on this CAF site that He does not approve. Your problem is with the messenger not understanding the message and from whence it came…
 
Once again (with deja vu): The Catholic Church accepts those with a homosexual orientation who practice chastity. Those who continue to engage in homosexual acts are in a state of mortal sin. We Catholics believe that the devil tempts us to commit mortal sins, including sexual sins, and it is our Christian duty to confess our sins, to do penance, and to amend our lives. You can disagree all you want, but these are the teachings of the Catholic Church. You can try to convince others that homosexual activity is not evil, but you won’t have much luck with well-formed Roman Catholics.

As far as gays turning away from the Church, if they refuse to stop engaging in homosexual activity and refuse to adopt a life of total chastity, then by definition via their sinful actions they are turning away from the Church, and from God. That is de fide.
All have sinned, and do need the glory of God.

We don’t need the devil to tempt us, concupiscence works just fine.

I suggest you read the Catholic encyclopedia article on concupiscence.
 
The difference is that Jesus has the moral authority to choose what lifestyles he approves of and does not…you don’t.
Nor do YOU. You are not an autonomous authority. Nor is any secular group (The Gay Lobby, MSNBC, etc.).

The Roman Church, the continuation of the followers of Jesus of the First Century in Palestine, has the moral authority to continue the same Truth Jesus both affirmed and Is, present tense.

I proclaim the same truth which the Church proclaims, not which secular society proclaims.
 
Nor do YOU. You are not an autonomous authority. Nor is any secular group (The Gay Lobby, MSNBC, etc.).

The Roman Church, the continuation of the followers of Jesus of the First Century in Palestine, has the moral authority to continue the same Truth Jesus both affirmed and Is, present tense.

I proclaim the same truth which the Church proclaims, not which secular society proclaims.
The church is wrong unfortunately.
 
The church is wrong unfortunately.
Interested,

You need to reconcile your cognitave dissonance…you suggest that Jesus has moral authority to choose approval for a lifestyle and then you say the Church is wrong.
The difference is that Jesus has the moral authority to choose what lifestyles he approves of and does not…you don’t.
You have a problem with the message and the messenger…you will need to sort this out for yourself.
 
I wouldn’t want to be in a place were I’m judged and looked down upon as a horrible sinner by the people around me.I’m not gay but I experience the judgmental attitudes of Protestants who tell me I’m going to hell because I’m Catholic and I don’t want to be around them or near their church.

( not all - I’m talking about the sect Protestant who tell me if I’m not in their church I’m going to hell - mostly Baptist - you know just like some of us do to them )
 
Interested,

You need to reconcile your cognitave dissonance…you suggest that Jesus has moral authority to choose approval for a lifestyle and then you say the Church is wrong.

You have a problem with the message and the messenger…you will need to sort this out for yourself.
Here, let me quote what Jesus had to say about gay marriage:

“…” - Jesus on gay marriage
 
Jesus was a Jew though, and the Old Testament, which includes that one verse on homosexuality being sexually immoral.

Jesus fulfilled many things in the Old Testament and release people from many things, such as eye for and eye and the cleanliness laws. If Jesus had wanted homosexuality to be moral, He would’ve said so.

He said nothing on gay marriage because it wasn’t exactly an issue at the time. The concept of two people of the same sex being in a relationship is a relatively new concept, and wasn’t even considered during Jesus’ time.
 
Here, let me quote what Jesus had to say about gay marriage:

“…” - Jesus on gay marriage
Interested,

You may find this logic appealing to a Protestant that appeals to the Bible alone…

here is what Jesus said about

Cyberpornography
Pedophelia
Suicide bombers
Mohammed

“…”

Take your argument to a Protestant…it does not work here…
 
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