Why I ceased being an organ donor

[rpp]

If you are going to opt out of donating your organs when you die, you should also opt out of receiving an organ should you ever need one to live.

Abuses in this business cannot be ignored. Just a few weeks ago, a doctor in India was kidnapping people and stealing their kidneys. Occasionally he took other organs resulting in the death of those he kidnapped. Until his arrest, such things were considered urban myths.

As for what I would do, I think you are being cruel and self-righteous here. I see many abuses in the medical industry. Here in Oregon, physician assisted “suicide” is legal. So how can one really know if the death was natural or really the result of murder? In Oregon, a person cannot really know and this law makes it next to impossible to prosecute doctors for “helping people along”.

As long as doctors can kill me, I will not allow them to financially benefit from my death.

If you want to self-righteous criticize me for not wanting to be murdered, go ahead.

 

[repo_man]

i’ve always said this to people. i heard george carlin bring it up and he realized my fears that i wasn’t just crazy. and now this. people tell me i’m paranoid but i don’t think so.

 

[rpp]

rpp back to your point so you have decided not to donate your organs, if they were acceptable in the first place, becuase this doctor killed or accelerated the death of someone. what ever happened to give your life for some one else.

There is a critical difference here. I do want anyone to kill me then financially benefit from my death.

You will not guilt-induce me into letting someone desecrate my corpse, either by taking my organs or cremating me. For that matter, I do not even want to be embalmed.

It is shameful that some people are so self-righteous that they insist that people commit suicide just because they think it is somehow noble.

Remember, in my state, it is legal for doctors to “help” someone die.

 

[graceandglory]

Abuses in this business cannot be ignored. Just a few weeks ago, a doctor in India was kidnapping people and stealing their kidneys. Occasionally he took other organs resulting in the death of those he kidnapped. Until his arrest, such things were considered urban myths.

This is where we are headed as a nation if it becomes legal to ***sell ***your organs. Right now, it is illegal, except in the case of blood plasma, which isn’t an organ. It is a slippery slope, and something that keeps being brought up so that the waiting list for good organs won’t be so long.

Hasten people to their death, and make some big bucks selling their organs.

At least we are still donating organs in our country.

 

[rayne89]

As someone who will need a heart transplant to live this saddens me greatly.

 

[rayne89]

An organ transplant results in a person who is obliged to take extremely expensive drugs for the duration of his/her life. This means that the cost is borne either by the family who pays thousands of dollars per month at a cost to the other family members, the insurance company at a greatly increased premium cost for all clients, or the government at a similar cost to the government health care system and the taxpayers. The fact that transplanted organs last an average of some five years means that the expensive surgeries involved are repeated over and over for a single patient.
Let’s keep the experimentation in the laboratory and when we can actually replace an organ with the patient’s own tissue, then start working on people.

Matthew

Thank you for putting a price tag on my life. This is why I should never click on these threads because I always end up in tears.

 

[rpp]

As someone who will need a heart transplant to live this saddens me greatly.

It saddens me as well. I have listed myself as an organ donor my entire adult life. But as I have read about more and more abuses and questionable “end of life” practices, especially for accident victims, I have grown increasingly concerned. Until, with these recent stories, and the law in Oregon permitting physician assisted suicide, I have decided to rescind my organ donation status.

What other have said about selling organs is true. However, doctors still get a major financial windfall via charging for “harvesting” and transporting organs. Doctors often net mid 6 figures for a single donor in fees for the “harvesting”. Families are not compensated.

The only possible way I would assent to donating my organs would be that doctors believe I do not want to donate then, and then are informed otherwise after my death. As a patient, I do not want doctors to think that there is any kind of benefit in my death.

My prayers are with you.

 

[DrPiano]

It saddens me as well. I have listed myself as an organ donor my entire adult life. But as I have read about more and more abuses and questionable “end of life” practices, especially for accident victims, I have grown increasingly concerned. Until, with these recent stories, and the law in Oregon permitting physician assisted suicide, I have decided to rescind my organ donation status.

What other have said about selling organs is true. However, doctors still get a major financial windfall via charging for “harvesting” and transporting organs. Doctors often net mid 6 figures for a single donor in fees for the “harvesting”. Families are not compensated.

The only possible way I would assent to donating my organs would be that doctors believe I do not want to donate then, and then are informed otherwise after my death. As a patient, I do not want doctors to think that there is any kind of benefit in my death.

My prayers are with you.

I can’t comment on the state of medical care in other areas, I can only comment on what is law and policy in my state, where I am currently studying to be a physician.

In Michigan, the doctor (and the team he/she works with) who pronounces death is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from the a) organization/physician (in Michigan this is a representative for Gift of Life who approaches the patient/family and b) the physician(s) who do the organ retrieval surgery. This is REQUIRED BY LAW here. I don’t know what it is in other areas, but its quite likely that laws like this can be easily tracked down. The physician who does the organ retrieval is also usually separate from the physician who cares for (and the physician who will be doing the transplantation for) the recipient. In part, this is to keep a lot of checks and balances on the system. The physician who pronounces brain death has no financial or other incentive for doing so. Their concern is entirely with the patient and that patient’s care.

I sympathize with those who are rightfully worried/scared by this atrocious abuse. I won’t even begin to apologize for the doctor involved. He was wrong. So are those doctors who kidnap people and take their organs. But I really strongly encourage anyone looking into getting on/off the organ donation list to really look into the safeguards in place in your own area/state. The need for organs is incredible. Just think - with the extra time you give someone, you could be giving them a chance to come home to Christ. That is an incredible opportunity. Who knows how God can use it.

A place to start looking for info is Gift of Life Michigan. They have a news bulletin on their front page regarding the case that started this thread. Another place you can look (to find your state Organ Procurement Organization) is here at Organdonor.gov

By the way, if you’re curious, an Organ Procurement Organization is defined in the above link as such: “In the U.S. and Puerto Rico, 58 organ procurement organizations (OPOs) coordinate organ procurement in designated service areas, which may cover all or part of a State; evaluate potential donors, discuss donation with family members, and arrange for the surgical removal of donated organs; and preserve organs and arrange for their distribution according to national organ sharing policies.”

 

[graceandglory]

A sister in Christ,
Elisa

Thinking about applying to join the Tiber Swim Team…

Yay, Elisa! Go, go go!!!
:dancing: :extrahappy: :grouphug: :extrahappy: :dancing:

 

[rayne89]

I can’t comment on the state of medical care in other areas, I can only comment on what is law and policy in my state, where I am currently studying to be a physician.

In Michigan, the doctor (and the team he/she works with) who pronounces death is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from the a) organization/physician (in Michigan this is a representative for Gift of Life who approaches the patient/family and b) the physician(s) who do the organ retrieval surgery. This is REQUIRED BY LAW here. I don’t know what it is in other areas, but its quite likely that laws like this can be easily tracked down. The physician who does the organ retrieval is also usually separate from the physician who cares for (and the physician who will be doing the transplantation for) the recipient. In part, this is to keep a lot of checks and balances on the system. The physician who pronounces brain death has no financial or other incentive for doing so. Their concern is entirely with the patient and that patient’s care.

I sympathize with those who are rightfully worried/scared by this atrocious abuse. I won’t even begin to apologize for the doctor involved. He was wrong. So are those doctors who kidnap people and take their organs. But I really strongly encourage anyone looking into getting on/off the organ donation list to really look into the safeguards in place in your own area/state. The need for organs is incredible. Just think - with the extra time you give someone, you could be giving them a chance to come home to Christ. That is an incredible opportunity. Who knows how God can use it.

A place to start looking for info is Gift of Life Michigan. They have a news bulletin on their front page regarding the case that started this thread. Another place you can look (to find your state Organ Procurement Organization) is here at Organdonor.gov

By the way, if you’re curious, an Organ Procurement Organization is defined in the above link as such: “In the U.S. and Puerto Rico, 58 organ procurement organizations (OPOs) coordinate organ procurement in designated service areas, which may cover all or part of a State; evaluate potential donors, discuss donation with family members, and arrange for the surgical removal of donated organs; and preserve organs and arrange for their distribution according to national organ sharing policies.”

Thank You!!!

 

[DrPiano]

I was looking for information from the Vatican on the ethics of organ donation and I ran across these two speeches by the late Holy Father John Paul II (*(“http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...ments/hf_jp-ii_spe_19910620_trapianti_en.html”) and II) to the International Society for Organ Sharing. I thought this quote was especially appropriate for this discussion (its in the first speech). Just something to think about.

1. This splendid development is not of course without its dark side. There is still much to be learned through research and clinical experience, and there are many questions of an ethical, legal and social nature which need to be more deeply and widely investigated. There are even shameful abuses which call for determined action on the part of medical associations and donor societies, and especially of competent legislative bodies. Yet in spite of these difficulties we can recall the words of the fourth century Doctor of the Church, Saint Basil the Great: “As regards medicine, it would not be right to reject a gift of God (that is, medical science), just because of the bad use that some people make of it…; we should instead throw light on what they have corrupted” (St. Basil the Great, Regola lunga, 55, 3: cf. Migne, PG 31:1048).

(emphasis mine)

 

[Kolbe300]

I am actually very surprised by the number of posts by those not wanting to be donors. Certainly there are going to be abuses with any practice. I would be curious to know what the chances are of a person being “killed” or allowed to die early in an effort to harvest their organs. I would imagine a person has a much greater chance of being killed in a car accident. (Yet, most of us still drive.)

Another poster brought up the point and it should be repeated. To my understanding, the physician dealing with the care of a patient and the physician(s) harvesting organs and such are NEVER the same. This is done by law (I believe in most states) so that the doctor taking the organs is not the one caring for the patient or pronouncing death.

The donor program can be an amazing gift. I can certainly understand people being nervous about different aspects of donating, it’s only human. It just seems to me as one where the abundant possibility of good so greatly outweighs the risks.

Just my two cents! Peace!

 

[Cara_Serrano]

Why is that? Is it because someone who does not donate is not worthy of receiving? Is it the intent of wanting to donate, or actually donating. Does it matter that some cannot donate? Does blood donation count? Some people cannot do that either.

Should the system be set up to be vengeful to those who do not give. What criteria would you suggest? Does someone have to have already donated or just be willing to donate after they die? Anyone can request to be a donor last minute before they need a transplant.

For what period of time should they have agreed to do this? 2 years before they need an organ? Last minute? 5 years?

I would gladly sign something to say that I can never receive a donated organ if it meant the medical profession would not hound me or my family for an organ when I’m dying… I plan to leave with the organs I came with and do not expect anyone to supply me with spare parts. When my heart or lungs fail, I’ll take that as a sign that it’s time to go home and I’ll start preparing for the journey.

I have seen first hand how the medical profession hovers around comatose patients like vultures around a wounded animal. They refer to the (still) human being as “vegetative” Presumably they see nothing wrong with this since no one would have a problem cutting up a vegetable. Dying people are not just a collection of interchangeable parts for the service of more “viable” individuals.

The happiest moment in my life was when my “vegetative” relative
awoke and was eventually able to flip off the doctor who was pressuring me to “harvest” his organs. That’s the day I stopped being an organ donor. If the hospital knows you’re not going to donate, they may actually try to treat you instead of wishing you would die sooner.

 

[kitkatty]

I can’t comment on the state of medical care in other areas, I can only comment on what is law and policy in my state, where I am currently studying to be a physician.

In Michigan, the doctor (and the team he/she works with) who pronounces death is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from the a) organization/physician (in Michigan this is a representative for Gift of Life who approaches the patient/family and b) the physician(s) who do the organ retrieval surgery. This is REQUIRED BY LAW here. I don’t know what it is in other areas, but its quite likely that laws like this can be easily tracked down. The physician who does the organ retrieval is also usually separate from the physician who cares for (and the physician who will be doing the transplantation for) the recipient. In part, this is to keep a lot of checks and balances on the system. The physician who pronounces brain death has no financial or other incentive for doing so. Their concern is entirely with the patient and that patient’s care.

I sympathize with those who are rightfully worried/scared by this atrocious abuse. I won’t even begin to apologize for the doctor involved. He was wrong. So are those doctors who kidnap people and take their organs. But I really strongly encourage anyone looking into getting on/off the organ donation list to really look into the safeguards in place in your own area/state. The need for organs is incredible. Just think - with the extra time you give someone, you could be giving them a chance to come home to Christ. That is an incredible opportunity. Who knows how God can use it.

A place to start looking for info is Gift of Life Michigan. They have a news bulletin on their front page regarding the case that started this thread. Another place you can look (to find your state Organ Procurement Organization) is here at Organdonor.gov

By the way, if you’re curious, an Organ Procurement Organization is defined in the above link as such: “In the U.S. and Puerto Rico, 58 organ procurement organizations (OPOs) coordinate organ procurement in designated service areas, which may cover all or part of a State; evaluate potential donors, discuss donation with family members, and arrange for the surgical removal of donated organs; and preserve organs and arrange for their distribution according to national organ sharing policies.”

Yup Elisa, that is exactly how it goes in Michigan, I worked many years on a med-surg unit and that is the procedure in our state.

 

[kitkatty]

Hi Cara, unfortunatly I can say I have seen too many of the professionals involved in giving the direct care to these patients acting in just the way you have described.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

This is exactly why I have decided to rescind my organ donor status.

The only real difference here is that the doctor got caught. How many have not?

Full story from CNN: cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/03/transplant.trial/index.html

It is not just to kill a person to save another. One cannot do evil even with a good intent. It this a result of a culture that accepts euthanasia? A person has dignity only if they can “contribute”? So if the only thing a person can contribute is their organs, then they deserve death?

When we live in an age where doctors perform abortions to make a buck. We should not be surprise, a doctor will kill a person to get their origans. Personally, I wonder if one would get better medical treatment if they were opposed to donating their orgians. Basically, if a doctor had a choice of killing one to make money vs perserving life. Our culture is mixed up.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thought I’d throw this out there from the Catechism:

CCC 2296 Organ transplants are in conformity with the moral law if the physical and psychological dangers and risks to the donor are proportionate to the good sought for the recipient. Organ donation after death is a noble and meritorious act and is to be encouraged as a expression of generous solidarity. It is not morally acceptable if the donor or his proxy has not given explicit consent. Moreover, it is not morally admissible to bring about the disabling mutilation or death of a human being, even in order to delay the death of other persons.

In short, it’s a noble thing to do, but it’s not obligatory. And death should not be hastened just to retrieve organs.

So, really it’s a decision we each have to make for ourselves, and one that should be respected. I don’t think the OP is advocating that organ donation be completely eliminated, only that he is not comfortable with choosing that for himself.

As with all good things, there are abuses, and we should certainly work towards rectifying them, but it doesn’t take away from the good.

 

[rpp]

Another story revealing some scary things about organ donation.

This is an interview with a man who was declared dead and was about to have his organ removed for donation.

Zach Dunlap says he feels “pretty good,” four months after he was declared brain dead and doctors were about to remove his organs for transplant.

Dunlap was pronounced dead November 19 at United Regional Healthcare System in Wichita Falls, Texas, after he was injured in an all-terrain vehicle accident. His family approved having his organs harvested
.
As family members were paying their last respects, he moved his foot and hand. He reacted to a pocketknife scraped across his foot and to pressure applied under a fingernail. After 48 days in the hospital, he was allowed to return home, where he continues to work on his recovery.

Full story.

 

[Cara_Serrano]

To rpp: Thanks for the link to the full story. It’s nice to know that other people have survived the over-eager doctors of organ donation.

 

[JimG]

The news story mentioned in post #38 was covered by one of the TV newsmagazines recently, perhaps 20/20. He had already been declared brain dead, and reported to the State as deceased.

Only hours before he was due to have his organs removed for donation, he began to show responses. Now he has gone through rehab and is home.

The family called it a miracle. I don’t think it is a miracle. It is a case of a man being declared dead who was not dead.

Sorry, but I simply do not trust the criteria for “brain death.” It seems to mean, “to the best of our knowledge, we don’t think he can recover or have a meaningful life.” But dead? I would say, not quite dead yet.