Why I disagree with Solo Scriptura but think you're both wrong

[Kelley_Green]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

Who has been ,making up what?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

Hello Kelley. Can you see the irony of your post?

Your mistake is thinking that either Catholics or Protestants believe they “have it in the bag” from their own merit. Both Catholics and Protestants base their faith in a Person, Christ. If I am boastful, I am boastful of Christ. You mistake pride (or a lack of humillity) for truth.

My humility came in recognizing my sin and my need to repent.

God bless you

 

[kylemccloughan]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

I must agree.

 

[brianwalden]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

I can’t speak for Protestants as a whole, their beliefs are too varied, but the Catholic Church has never said that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. The Church has never even claimed that the entirety of God’s revelation to man is contained in the bible. In fact, I’m pretty sure that nothing in your first paragraph contradicts the teachings of the Church.

So i don’t really know where you come to your conclusion that you think that Catholics think they’ve got it all in the bag (again, I don’t know enough to speak one way or the other for Protestants). Could you elaborate?

 

[campeador]

So, you’ve had a run-in with some fundamentalist King James Onlys?

 

[hn160]

We believe that the holy Bible of the Old and New Testaments is the only divinely inspired book and the only source of divinely revealed knowledge. Scripture alone is the formal principle of the faith, the final authority for all matters of faith and morals because of its inspiration, authority, clarity, efficacy, and sufficiency. We also believe that the Old Testament speaks throughout about Christ.

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[kylemccloughan]

We believe that the holy Bible of the Old and New Testaments is the only divinely inspired book and the only source of divinely revealed knowledge. Scripture alone is the formal principle of the faith, the final authority for all matters of faith and morals because of its inspiration, authority, clarity, efficacy, and sufficiency. We also believe that the Old Testament speaks throughout about Christ.

---

I’m pretty much in agreement with this. Very well summed up.

 

[brianwalden]

We believe that the holy Bible of the Old and New Testaments is the only divinely inspired book and the only source of divinely revealed knowledge. Scripture alone is the formal principle of the faith, the final authority for all matters of faith and morals because of its inspiration, authority, clarity, efficacy, and sufficiency. We also believe that the Old Testament speaks throughout about Christ.

---

Is which books make up the canon of Scripture a matter of faith?

 

[hn160]

Is which books make up the canon of Scripture a matter of faith?

Depends on your point of view of the Apocrypha, you hold to it as Scripture and we as useful reading, but for me personally it is not an issue since our publishing house is going to publish it as a companion book to our “The Lutheran Study Bible”.

 

[brianwalden]

Depends on your point of view of the Apocrypha, you hold to it as Scripture and we as useful reading, but for me personally it is not an issue since our publishing house is going to publish it as a companion book to our “The Lutheran Study Bible”.

Let’s not concern the Deuterocanonicals for now, why do you consider the 27 books of the new testament to be canonical? Scripture nowhere indicates that they are part of scripture.

 

[JonNC]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

I believe it would be arrogant, as well, to perceive God as entirely contained in a book, even the Bible. God is much infinitely greater than one book. But I don’t think Catholics, or most communions who fall under the general label of protestant believe that God is simply contained in the Bible.
I’m confused about what stories you are talking about, but it is true that it is the responsibility of the Church to practice hermeunetics, to present teachings and doctrines for the understanding of the faithful. The difference, ISTM, between Catholicism and my communion is we hold those teachings and doctrine accountable to scripture as the final norm, while Catholicism relies on Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium, guided by the Holy Spirit, along with scripture.
There is clearly arrogance and pride on both sides, but I don’t see it as you have described here.

Jon

 

[Christalone]

I must agree.

I too can agree with this.

 

[JRRTFAN]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

I don’t think you understand what sola scriptura is. Its adherents do not think the entirety of God is contained in scripture. They think that the entirety of revelation is contained in scripture.

Catholics believe that revelation, to the extent it has been revealed, resides in Jesus Christ and all that he taught, including scripture.

The fact of the matter is that anyone in a state of sanctifying grace has “got it all in the bag”. I never heard any (sane) person of either persuasion who thought they apprehended the entirety of God.

Where do you get your information from?

 

[Kelley_Green]

Hello Kelley. Can you see the irony of your post?

Your mistake is thinking that either Catholics or Protestants believe they “have it in the bag” from their own merit… You mistake pride (or a lack of humillity) for truth.

You’ve missed my point which was a comment directed squarely at those who do believe they “have it in the bag” evidenced in their arguments and conduct. When Catholics and Protestants are walking their talk, there is no quarrelsome petty nonsense. We are all to be answering that higher calling and for all intents and purposes are mostly just going about it differently. Others behaving contemptuously toward their brothers and sisters are answering what calling? It does have to do in part with your bolded post, but there’s more of themselves in the way than just that concept. IMO that’s why the schism persists.

I’m wearing my Martha hat with a dash of Joan of Arc purposely, so don’t complain that I’m not being Mary. Through a mothers eyes and ears it’s heartbreaking disappointment to watch Cain and Abel engaged in insanity needlessly. What more words could Catherine of Sienna use to express thorns in her heart? This infernal language of western culture forcing everyone into cartesian logic to such an extreme it renders them foolish serving contrary objectives believing themselves righteous- mind numbingly frustrating to say the least. Hatfield trying to establish an identity based on diminishing McCoy and vice versa pandering to the populist appearance of supremacy- it diminishes them both equally. Another metaphor-- plumbers competing with electricians, carpenters with architects, and architects with plumbers all claiming to serve my fathers house, and yet, in the ridiculous frame of mind they approach via zero sum game competition, none of them are serving what they profess.

This isn’t a discussion I can have anywhere else and for today I won’t grin and bear it. Hopefully things I’ve said will contribute to the peacekeepers who are far too quiet for too long to my taste. In God’s time- OK, BUT let’s not use that as an excuse to dawdle about it.

My humility came in recognizing my sin and my need to repent.

Heaping portion of anxious anticipation for the new roman missal on my part. I hope stragglers in the flock with any last bit of confusion will find clarity. “Having it in the bag” is answered by the admission that in this mortal coil, the mystery will remain likely beyond our grasp. Anyone out there having the irrational expectation that their parish priest is omnipotent is someone whose eyes are not directed upward.

 

[Nicea325]

We believe that the holy Bible of the Old and New Testaments is the only divinely inspired book and the only source of divinely revealed knowledge. Scripture alone is the formal principle of the faith, the final authority for all matters of faith and morals because of its inspiration, authority, clarity, efficacy, and sufficiency. We also believe that the Old Testament speaks throughout about Christ.

---

Where does the Christ & Apostles and early church teach the Bible is the ONLY SOURCE of divinely revealed knowledge? So much for Christ founding His church-eh?

Second,where does the Bible explicitly teach it is the FINAL authority for ALL matters faith and morals? And please spare me the taken out-of-context verses 2 Tim 3:15-16.

 

[zz912]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

I’m glad you’ve got it all in the bag. Of course I’m intrigued by such marvelous humility that can tell all Christians they’re wrong and you’re right.

 

[JonNC]

=Nicea325;8120102]Where does the Christ & Apostles and early church teach the Bible is the ONLY SOURCE of divinely revealed knowledge? So much for Christ founding His church-eh?

Actually, no, my friend, not from a Lutheran perspective. The scripture is explicit as to the importance of the Church, as a teaching authority. Christ did, as He says, found a Church.
What Lutherans say is that scripture is the final norm by which the Church’s doctrines and teachers/teachings are held accountable

Second,where does the Bible explicitly teach it is the FINAL authority for ALL matters faith and morals? And please spare me the taken out-of-context verses 2 Tim 3:15-16.

When writing about rule and norm, the Lutheran reformers reference Psalm 119:105, “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” One thing they did not do, is exclude Tradition, but in fact attempt to safeguard it by holding it accountable to scripture.
I know, however, this is not the framework used by the Catholic Church.

Jon

 

[Kelley_Green]

the Catholic Church has never said that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. The Church has never even claimed that the entirety of God’s revelation to man is contained in the bible.

100% true! And yet, superstitions in the flock persist (all denominations BTW).
If every American took a civics exam how many ‘real’ Americans are out there? Same for Christians who at times master 3rd grade and do a bit of intellectual forgery believing it a PhD completed.

So, you’ve had a run-in with some fundamentalist King James Onlys?

Hahahaha! Now now!! Don’t believe there’s a shortage of our very own fundies singeing ears in the flock. And some of them are ordained!

Reminds me of my nephew years back getting in mischief and retorting back
“But Aunt Kelley, I AM being ‘Hayve’!” (sniffle sniffle)
With the biggest grin imaginable on my face I took him by his chinny chin chin and said "Dearest Michael, how can you be ‘Hayve’ if there’s no such thing as ‘Hayve’? I then took the time to clarify the concept of ‘behaving himself’ that had wildly eluded him.

He’s graduated and we sit on the porch contemplating why so many adults aren’t behaving when it only makes them miserable. <—They’ve got that face on. Coincidence? And for the rest of his life, every moment he takes himself too seriously or finds himself stuck in the guano he made up, I’ll offer him the inside joke of an angry little boy face :sniffle sniffle: replete with all it’s drama “But Aunt Kelley, I AM being ‘Hayve’!” and hopefully he’ll recall his sense of humor, and humility, about himself again. Too bad it won’t work on the rest of the world.

 

[Nicea325]

Actually, no, my friend, not from a Lutheran perspective. The scripture is explicit as to the importance of the Church, as a teaching authority. Christ did, as He says, found a Church.
What Lutherans say is that scripture is the final norm by which the Church’s doctrines and teachers/teachings are held accountable

When writing about rule and norm, the Lutheran reformers reference Psalm 119:105, “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” One thing they did not do, is exclude Tradition, but in fact attempt to safeguard it by holding it accountable to scripture.
I know, however, this is not the framework used by the Catholic Church.

Jon

Thanks my friend for providing the Lutheran perspective. God Bless