Why I disagree with Solo Scriptura but think you're both wrong

[kylemccloughan]

Where does the Christ & Apostles and early church teach the Bible is the ONLY SOURCE of divinely revealed knowledge? So much for Christ founding His church-eh?

Second,where does the Bible explicitly teach it is the FINAL authority for ALL matters faith and morals? And please spare me the taken out-of-context verses 2 Tim 3:15-16.

While I don’t subscribe to the idea that Scripture is the only authority acceptable in the Christian world, I also believe that it is the most authentic and unchanged and the most trusted. I believe it was Dedrick Bonhoffer who once said that anytime we add things to the Bible to attempt to increase its authenticity to authority, we fail miserably and dangerously.

 

[Kelley_Green]

But I don’t think Catholics, or most communions who fall under the general label of protestant believe that God is simply contained in the Bible.
I’m confused about what stories you are talking about

Easy enough to confuse people when I’ve got too much on my mind and a heavy heart going on. For the sake of brevity- I’m talking about the problem children of the world, the most troubling ones being the overgrown children in adult bodies misleading children as poor examples for them, compounding the crime by blaming young adults for what grown adults failed to teach. They grossly misrepresent faith and ultimately corrode or displace the true definition.

As per usual people presumed this thread was a complaint against official teachings of any side, but it’s the great divide of American flocks between a noun and a verb. It’s the Fred Phelps, Mark David Chapmans, and the Jim Jones of the world who convince themselves they’re Christian taking grievous license and twisting something beautiful into something gnarled and vicious. Extreme examples, but there are others more commonplace. The tea party protester taking a bill out of his pocket, crumpling it up, and throwing it in the face of a disabled man really believes he’s Christian but his actions betray his real beliefs.

There is clearly arrogance and pride on both sides, but I don’t see it as you have described here.

Have you never met anyone convinced they should break 9 commandments to defend 1? They talk themselves into jail every time.

Where do you get your information from?

The pews and the conduct on main street USA monday through saturday ‘when God isn’t looking’.

 

[JonNC]

Easy enough to confuse people when I’ve got too much on my mind and a heavy heart going on. For the sake of brevity- I’m talking about the problem children of the world, the most troubling ones being the overgrown children in adult bodies misleading children as poor examples for them, compounding the crime by blaming young adults for what grown adults failed to teach. They grossly misrepresent faith and ultimately corrode or displace the true definition.

As per usual people presumed this thread was a complaint against official teachings of any side, but it’s the great divide of American flocks between a noun and a verb. It’s the Fred Phelps, Mark David Chapmans, and the Jim Jones of the world who convince themselves they’re Christian taking grievous license and twisting something beautiful into something gnarled and vicious. Extreme examples, but there are others more commonplace. The tea party protester taking a bill out of his pocket, crumpling it up, and throwing it in the face of a disabled man really believes he’s Christian but his actions betray his real beliefs.

Have you never met anyone convinced they should break 9 commandments to defend 1? They talk themselves into jail every time.

The pews and the conduct on main street USA monday through saturday ‘when God isn’t looking’.

So, you are talking about the hypocrisy that is prevalent in the world today, and within the Church. You’re talking about a failure of people to live out the faith they profess. You’re talking about the liberal who believes he is doing Christ’s work by lobbying for government power to confiscate the property of some who *he’s *decided are too rich, in order to give to the poor. Gottcha.

I don’t see anything new here. Is the Church at the front in trying to change the hearts of people? Sometimes, but not always. Could we do more? Oh, yes. Does our division hurt the message of Christ in the world? Absolutely.

Does this answer your OP?

Jon

PS I’m still not sure what this has to do with sola scriptura.

 

[schaick]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

LOL! ?What GOD contained in a book?

What is contained in the Holy Bible - is how man failed in his relationshi9p with GOD and what man needs to do to get right with GOD.

 

[Nicea325]

While I don’t subscribe to the idea that Scripture is the only authority acceptable in the Christian world, I also believe that it is the most authentic and unchanged and the most trusted. I believe it was Dedrick Bonhoffer who once said that anytime we add things to the Bible to attempt to increase its authenticity to authority, we fail miserably and dangerously.

Yes but it is the cause (Church) which gave us the effect (Bible), thus the church is the authentic keeper.

 

[JonNC]

LOL! ?What GOD contained in a book?

What is contained in the Holy Bible - is how man failed in his relationshi9p with GOD and what man needs to do to get right with GOD.

Excuse the Lutheranism in me, schaick. I would change the bolded to: …what God has done to make it possible for man to get right with Him.

Jon

 

[kylemccloughan]

Yes but it is the cause (Church) which gave us the effect (Bible), thus the church is the authentic keeper.

So the church wrote the Bible??

 

[Kelley_Green]

You’re talking about the liberal who believes he is doing Christ’s work by lobbying for government power to confiscate the property of some who *he’s *decided are too rich, in order to give to the poor. Gottcha.

Too bad you’re part of the problem. Every prejudice you’ve embraced becomes the nose ring you’ll be led around by and insist all others enslaved you.

I’m still not sure what this has to do with sola scriptura.

If it’s not one bone it’s another. Y’all would find a way to argue over the correct side of the street to drive on because you personally didn’t decide it ought to be right and how dare a traffic light infringe upon your 3 minutes of liberty inconvenienced. Irrelevant who and what gets trampled in the process. When you’re too far from principles you very well may be beyond redemption. And I do mean all of you. Not one side or the other.

 

[schaick]

Excuse the Lutheranism in me, schaick. I would change the bolded to: …what God has done to make it possible for man to get right with Him.

Jon

Absolutely!! I stand corrected.

 

[JonNC]

=Kelley Green;8125815]Too bad you’re part of the problem. Every prejudice you’ve embraced becomes the nose ring you’ll be led around by and insist all others enslaved you.

Guess, then, I still haven’t figured out what the problem is that I’m a part of. And what prejudices have you peceived that I’ve embraced?

If it’s not one bone it’s another. Y’all would find a way to argue over the correct side of the street to drive on because you personally didn’t decide it ought to be right and how dare a traffic light infringe upon your 3 minutes of liberty inconvenienced. Irrelevant who and what gets trampled in the process. When you’re too far from principles you very well may be beyond redemption. And I do mean all of you. Not one side or the other.

Boy, now I’m really confused. What principals do you perceive I’m (and all of us are) far away from?

Jon

 

[zz912]

Why was the example of a tea partier brought into this thread?

 

[Jim_Dandy]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

So one should make up his own religion that he thinks is right. And Jesus is a liar. He wasn’t with the leaders of His Church always, to the end of the world, as He promised (Mt 28:20 KJV). And when he promised that the Spirit of Truth would be with His Church always) Jn 14:16-18, 14:26, 15: 26, 16:7-15), and that the powers of death would not prevail against [His Church] (Mt 16:18-19 RSV), He was just joking, huh?

Well, gooooolly. Pardon me for believing what Jesus said.

You listed your religion as Solitary practitioner Catholic. What does that mean, please?

Jim Dandy

 

[Stephen168]

I’m glad you’ve got it all in the bag. Of course I’m intrigued by such marvelous humility that can tell all Christians they’re wrong and you’re right.

Excellent summary of the OP

 

[Nicea325]

So the church wrote the Bible??

Are you separating the church from the Bible? Are they two competing entities? The church gave us the Bible. Many have a false premise the Bible gave us the church.Christ founded His Church first and the Bible is a result of His Church. Men who belonged to the church inspired by God wrote it-right? Are not the authors part of the church?

 

[wisdomseeker]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

Do you ever find yourself having to defend the Truth? Which Truth?

 

[Kelley_Green]

LOL! ?What GOD contained in a book?

Don’t you know I ‘OWN’ God? I’ve got the pedigree papers right here. Not only that, but I’ve got God’s real estate all mapped out and will defend the man made cages I’ve constructed to contain God no matter the body count. You’re standing too near it with a covetous look in your eye. God told me I should shoot. Well, not exactly TOLD me, but seeing how I OWN an omnipotent all powerful deity I think it only common sense that I protect my investment. After all, it might lose value at Sotheby’s and my neighbors might not envy me to my satisfaction if I don’t. Just think of the possibilities. The Church pews would never need cleaning/ wear and tear if only we roped it off prohibiting people from sitting in them. Perhaps getting rid of nuisance humanity would guarantee my coveted God’s security and cherry on top the synergy of savings in maintenance costs.

I would hope this all sounds nuts to anyone spending a minute to contemplate. Strawman it is, and the complaints leveled at strawmen in flavor of the month reactionary paradigms shouldn’t be yet another intellectualized license to ignore the lesson. Taken to irrational extremes demanding absolutes of everything you’d indulge yourselves with an eraser ridding the Bible of every parable to satisfy a man made desire for absolutes.

How many more left brain worshiping mathematicians out there are going to render themselves drooling unintelligibly in an asylum over what boils down to bones to be their own hubris? One extreme hears me speak this and decides it’s all the evidence they need to declare math must be abolished, another extreme decides I’m a grievous threat to the security of mathematics, and both disqualified from legitimate consideration because they’re not in service to the higher calling that is the truth.

Truth is parables constitute the largest % of the Bible for a reason and those desirous of absolutes to it’s illogical extreme would do well to consider long and hard why. It’s part of the brilliance of the book in plain sight but too many enamored by a single value notoriously overlook it.

Wisdomseeker;

Side note- hope you all appreciated your respective services today. Happy Sunday.

---

Jon,
There’s no point in responding to anyone willfully talking past problems to exacerbate dereliction of duty, which carried on so consistently declares it’s true objective. Good faith patience abused is done now. You’ll know them by their fruits, or pernicious lack thereof, indeed.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Don’t you know I ‘OWN’ God? I’ve got the pedigree papers right here. Not only that, but I’ve got God’s real estate all mapped out and will defend the man made cages I’ve constructed to contain God no matter the body count. You’re standing too near it with a covetous look in your eye. God told me I should shoot. Well, not exactly TOLD me, but seeing how I OWN an omnipotent all powerful deity I think it only common sense that I protect my investment. After all, it might lose value at Sotheby’s and my neighbors might not envy me to my satisfaction if I don’t. Just think of the possibilities. The Church pews would never need cleaning/ wear and tear if only we roped it off prohibiting people from sitting in them. Perhaps getting rid of nuisance humanity would guarantee my coveted God’s security and cherry on top the synergy of savings in maintenance costs.

I would hope this all sounds nuts to anyone spending a minute to contemplate. Strawman it is, and the complaints leveled at strawmen in flavor of the month reactionary paradigms shouldn’t be yet another intellectualized license to ignore the lesson. Taken to irrational extremes demanding absolutes of everything you’d indulge yourselves with an eraser ridding the Bible of every parable to satisfy a man made desire for absolutes.

How many more left brain worshiping mathematicians out there are going to render themselves drooling unintelligibly in an asylum over what boils down to bones to be their own hubris? One extreme hears me speak this and decides it’s all the evidence they need to declare math must be abolished, another extreme decides I’m a grievous threat to the security of mathematics, and both disqualified from legitimate consideration because they’re not in service to the higher calling that is the truth.

Truth is parables constitute the largest % of the Bible for a reason and those desirous of absolutes to it’s illogical extreme would do well to consider long and hard why. It’s part of the brilliance of the book in plain sight but too many enamored by a single value notoriously overlook it.

Wisdomseeker;

Side note- hope you all appreciated your respective services today. Happy Sunday.

---

Jon,
There’s no point in responding to anyone willfully talking past problems to exacerbate dereliction of duty, which carried on so consistently declares it’s true objective. Good faith patience abused is done now. You’ll know them by their fruits, or pernicious lack thereof, indeed.

Not until you answer my question. You talk and talk but accomplish nothing until you are able to answer questions that you have created.

 

[schaick]

Don’t you know I ‘OWN’ God? I’ve got the pedigree papers right here. Not only that, but I’ve got God’s real estate all mapped out and will defend the man made cages I’ve constructed to contain God no matter the body count. You’re standing too near it with a covetous look in your eye. God told me I should shoot. Well, not exactly TOLD me, but seeing how I OWN an omnipotent all powerful deity I think it only common sense that I protect my investment. After all, it might lose value at Sotheby’s and my neighbors might not envy me to my satisfaction if I don’t. Just think of the possibilities. The Church pews would never need cleaning/ wear and tear if only we roped it off prohibiting people from sitting in them. Perhaps getting rid of nuisance humanity would guarantee my coveted God’s security and cherry on top the synergy of savings in maintenance costs.

Did I miss your response to my whole statement?:

What is contained in the Holy Bible - is how man failed in his relationship with GOD and what GOD needs to do to get right with GOD.

Corrected to :
…what God has done to make it possible for man to get right with Him.

 

[wisdomseeker]

In a nutshell it’s arrogant to believe, as magnificent as the Bible is, that God is contained entirely by a book of words in a limited human language. At best we have a piece of God gifted to us but would do well not to make up stories beyond the ones given. That’s when dinosaur bones turn up and small minds claim end times or the Bible is fake. The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat either, but when you insert your own prejudice in there’s a whole world of contradictions bound to dog you until you let it go.

Where I stand both Catholics and Protestants get it wrong thinking they’ve got it all in the bag. Humility, folks. That’s in the book.

Finally, we have someone who have a solution to these problem. Go ahead show us the way.

 

[JonNC]

Jon,
There’s no point in responding to anyone willfully talking past problems to exacerbate dereliction of duty, which carried on so consistently declares it’s true objective. Good faith patience abused is done now. You’ll know them by their fruits, or pernicious lack thereof, indeed.

Kelley,
You have me completely confused. Of whom are you speaking? Of what are you speaking? Who has been derelict in their duties?

Jon