Why I enjoy church hopping

[elvisman]

Hey … I liked Bush (even though he was a little too religious for my taste). Bush minus the religious diatribe was great … well particularly if he would have paid more attention to the domestic economy.

How’s that … an atheist who thinks democrats are generally a bunch of drooling idiots!

It certainly is rare!

 

[prodigalson12]

"Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?

Matthew 7:3

You see this is the game you think you are playing along to when it comes down to it, yet you have to fabricate the beam itself.

I probably should mention something to you here along those lines regardless. The Catholic church frowns on rock music, yet you have picked a rock legend as part of your screen name, in a manner I’d say that you revered this particular one to boot. Wouldn’t you call that a sin?

 

[elvisman]

"Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?

Matthew 7:3

You see this is the game you think you are playing along to when it comes down to it, yet you have to fabricate the beam itself.

I probably should mention something to you here along those lines regardless. The Catholic church frowns on rock music, yet you have picked a rock legend as part of your screen name, in a manner I’d say that you revered this particular one to boot. Wouldn’t you call that a sin?

Man - you’re really going hog-wild with the false accusations. I REVERE Elvis??? How in the world do you come to that conclusion?
And you call ME insane . . .

As for pointing out the error of your ways - by not admonishing a brother, I would be committing the sin of omission:

“Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me”** (Matthew 25:45).**

Admonishing a brother or sister is a spiritual work of mercy:
***“Them that sin reprove before all: that the rest also may have fear” ***(1 Timothy 5:20).

“Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine”** (2 Timothy 4:2).**

"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart, but reprove him openly, lest thou incur sin through him”** (Leviticus 19:17). **

“He must know that*** he who causeth a sinner to be converted from the error of his way, shall save his soul from death******, and shall cover a multitude of sins”***** (James 5:20).**

***“Brethren, and if a man be overtaken in any fault, *****you, who are spiritual, instruct such a one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted” (Galatians 6:1).

 

[Love_is_Patient]

I guess most people are happy with an hour or two a week, it’s just not enough for me, not by far. If you are only enjoying fellowship in that limited basis, at least to me, that’s just maintenance, and overall, I enjoy the sermons the most. Not the repetition, not the songs, the sermons. I’m getting a very rich understanding of the gospel during this process, and the cool part, even the old becomes a new each time I hear some take within the sermons themselves. This is not to say I have had some disagreements with some of them, both Catholic and Protestant alike, but overall, it’s been very rewarding.

With all due respect, this post does seem to hint at some spiritual pride (see the bold)–and also a misunderstanding of the Holy Mass. It’s NOT about fellowship with other parishoners. Mass is sooo much more than that. Have you ever read “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn?

Shouldn’t the Eucharist be what you love the most about worship?

Moreover, I’m surprised your parish doesn’t offer daily Mass. Perhaps your desire to worship God every day is His way of telling you to start perpetual Adoration at your parish or campaign for daily Mass or lead a Bible study.

Love is Patient

P.S. Accusing elvisman of being mentally ill is not the epitome of Christian charity.

 

[Among_Strangers]

This thread is so sad. A guy has basically said he is reaching out in his personal spirituality to embrace, fellowship, pray with, and for fellow Christians that come from a non-Catholic background or tradition.

When questioned about his own Catholicity to ensure that he is not erring in thinking attending any Christian worship service substitutes for the Mass, or that he is incorrectly partaking in communion at other Christian services or unworthily partaking in the Eucharist, he states firmly that he understands and is not doing anything that compromises his Catholic stance. In fact he goes the extra mile by ensuring that the Christians he is associating with understand that he is Catholic and will not compromise his beliefs.

And for that he is way laid by various posters that love to go **bold **and **blue **and **red **– whatever all that’s about.

Do you believe that non-Catholic Christians are Christians? If so, what’s your beef here? Why are your feathers ruffled? If not, then you’re outside the teachings of the Catholic Church and need to repent.

 

[Love_is_Patient]

This thread is so sad. A guy has basically said he is reaching out in his personal spirituality to embrace, fellowship, pray with, and for fellow Christians that come from a non-Catholic background or tradition.

When questioned about his own Catholicity to ensure that he is not erring in thinking attending any Christian worship service substitutes for the Mass, or that he is incorrectly partaking in communion at other Christian services or unworthily partaking in the Eucharist, he states firmly that he understands and is not doing anything that compromises his Catholic stance. In fact he goes the extra mile by ensuring that the Christians he is associating with understand that he is Catholic and will not compromise his beliefs.

And for that he is way laid by various posters that love to go **bold **and **blue **and **red **– whatever all that’s about.

Do you believe that non-Catholic Christians are Christians? If so, what’s your beef here? Why are your feathers ruffled? If not, then you’re outside the teachings of the Catholic Church and need to repent.

I may be off here, but I don’t think anyone has a problem with accepting non-Catholics as our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ or praying with them.

What has people concerned is that it seems that the OP is indifferent to the fact that the Mass is not just another fellowship-style gathering of Christians. From what he’s posted, it doesn’t seem like he has high reverence for Mass.

But hey, all we have to go on is what he’s posted, so my understanding could be totally off.

That’s just my :twocents:

Love is Patient

 

[Among_Strangers]

I may be off here, but I don’t think anyone has a problem with accepting non-Catholics as our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ or praying with them.

What has people concerned is that it seems that the OP is indifferent to the fact that the Mass is not just another fellowship-style gathering of Christians. From what he’s posted, it doesn’t seem like he has high reverence for Mass.

But hey, all we have to go on is what he’s posted, so my understanding could be totally off.

That’s just my :twocents:

Love is Patient

We all have our perceptions, I reckon. I don’t see the OP saying or indicating anything irreverential about the Mass. If you go back to the beginning of the thread it starts off quite well. There are concerns voiced about the differences between the various traditions and how to deal or cope with that - good stuff. But it soon falls into people pointing their fingers at him, misstating his position, and of course my very favorite internet dialogue technique of, “**Here’s what your **problem is…”

It’s practically impossible to share anything on CAF without some complete whackadoo running off at the keyboard and ruining everyone’s day. What happened to rejoicing when our brothers and sister rejoice? What happened to building each other up? This place … It’s just not the way it’s supposed to be.

 

[Love_is_Patient]

We all have our perceptions, I reckon. I don’t see the OP saying or indicating anything irreverential about the Mass. If you go back to the beginning of the thread it starts off quite well. There are concerns voiced about the differences between the various traditions and how to deal or cope with that - good stuff. But it soon falls into people pointing their fingers at him, misstating his position, and of course my very favorite internet dialogue technique of, “**Here’s what your **problem is…”

It’s practically impossible to share anything on CAF without some complete whackadoo running off at the keyboard and ruining everyone’s day. What happened to rejoicing when our brothers and sister rejoice? What happened to building each other up? This place … It’s just not the way it’s supposed to be.

I agree, there have been some harsh posts. I see where you’re coming from.

However, I also think there is reason to be concerned when he writes in his first post on this thread:

prodigalson12:

I now consider myself Catholic and Protestant, unpolitically correct as it may be, that is my stance. I refuse to claim a denomination, always keeping my roots within the Catholic faith and keeping that strong, yet not forsaking my protestant bretheren and enjoying their company within fellowship.

I hope to live to see the day when Catholics and Protestants are united. But today isn’t that day.

Love is Patient

 

[Among_Strangers]

Love is Patient:

However, I also think there is reason to be concerned when he writes in his first post on this thread:

prodigalson12:

I now consider myself Catholic and Protestant, unpolitically correct as it may be, that is my stance. I refuse to claim a denomination, always keeping my roots within the Catholic faith and keeping that strong, yet not forsaking my protestant bretheren and enjoying their company within fellowship.

I hope to live to see the day when Catholics and Protestants are united. But today isn’t that day.

Love is Patient

I’m not nit-picking at you or anything like, OK? But I just want to know. Why is this quote from prod of concern? I think it’s a bold and provocative statement. Hopefully that was the intent. It makes one think. I noticed he’s careful to include that he keeps his roots w/in the Catholic Faith.

By tearing down distinctions between this type of believer vs. that type of believer (Catholic v. Baptist, or what have you) it allows for an open and safe environment for people to voice their personal spiritual walk and path without fearing an instant rejection based upon a label that is imposed upon them from outside.

By removing the label of Catholic or Protestant it allows for a dialogue based upon personal reflections and not perceived biases based upon the others view of the opposing label.

I have a bias against Jehovah’s Witnesses. If I met guy and we talk and he’s cool all is good, until I find out he’s a JW, then my defense mechanism come up and I don’t see him as a person any more. I see him as “other” and I am on guard. Since I am in protection mode I am now not allowing myself to really hear or see this person as a person and I am not allowing myself to be Christ to this person. I am just waiting to make my own points to defeat his, even if he isn’t trying to make any points.

I think it’s a great way to go about bringing unification into the Christian experience. Of course there are lots of things and stuff that would have to be worked through for whole ecclesial communities to be reunified, but a journey always begins with a first step. Organizations don’t bring about change, people bring about change. One individual takes one step, another person steps along side of him and the next thing you know something positive has happened. The only way for that positive change to take effect is for us to drop our defenses and be Christ to one another. One way to allow for that to happen is to eliminate labels.

Oh look how I’ve rambled on now …

 

[elvisman]

This thread is so sad. A guy has basically said he is reaching out in his personal spirituality to embrace, fellowship, pray with, and for fellow Christians that come from a non-Catholic background or tradition.

When questioned about his own Catholicity to ensure that he is not erring in thinking attending any Christian worship service substitutes for the Mass, or that he is incorrectly partaking in communion at other Christian services or unworthily partaking in the Eucharist, he states firmly that he understands and is not doing anything that compromises his Catholic stance. In fact he goes the extra mile by ensuring that the Christians he is associating with understand that he is Catholic and will not compromise his beliefs.

And for that he is way laid by various posters that love to go **bold **and **blue **and **red **– whatever all that’s about.

Do you believe that non-Catholic Christians are Christians? If so, what’s your beef here? Why are your feathers ruffled? If not, then you’re outside the teachings of the Catholic Church and need to repent.

The saddest part of this thread is the title.
The Church does NOT encourage poorly catechized Catholics" to “church-hop”.

Please show me where the Catechism states that we are to be “Cathoic and Protestant” - as the OP claims he is.

[Moderator note: Removed uncharitable comment.]

 

[elvisman]

I’m not nit-picking at you or anything like, OK? But I just want to know. Why is this quote from prod of concern? I think it’s a bold and provocative statement. Hopefully that was the intent. It makes one think. I noticed he’s careful to include that he keeps his roots w/in the Catholic Faith.

By tearing down distinctions between this type of believer vs. that type of believer (Catholic v. Baptist, or what have you) it allows for an open and safe environment for people to voice their personal spiritual walk and path without fearing an instant rejection based upon a label that is imposed upon them from outside.

By removing the label of Catholic or Protestant it allows for a dialogue based upon personal reflections and not perceived biases based upon the others view of the opposing label.

I have a bias against Jehovah’s Witnesses. If I met guy and we talk and he’s cool all is good, until I find out he’s a JW, then my defense mechanism come up and I don’t see him as a person any more. I see him as “other” and I am on guard. Since I am in protection mode I am now not allowing myself to really hear or see this person as a person and I am not allowing myself to be Christ to this person. I am just waiting to make my own points to defeat his, even if he isn’t trying to make any points.

I think it’s a great way to go about bringing unification into the Christian experience. Of course there are lots of things and stuff that would have to be worked through for whole ecclesial communities to be reunified, but a journey always begins with a first step. Organizations don’t bring about change, people bring about change. One individual takes one step, another person steps along side of him and the next thing you know something positive has happened. The only way for that positive change to take effect is for us to drop our defenses and be Christ to one another. One way to allow for that to happen is to eliminate labels.

Oh look how I’ve rambled on now …

"Catholic" is not a “label” - it’s who we are. I am more Catholic than I am American. I’m sorry if you’re not. We are more radically joined as the Body of Christ than we are by blood.

Removing who and what you are is not the answer - the TRUTH is the answer.

 

[Love_is_Patient]

I’m not nit-picking at you or anything like, OK? But I just want to know. Why is this quote from prod of concern? I think it’s a bold and provocative statement. Hopefully that was the intent. It makes one think. I noticed he’s careful to include that he keeps his roots w/in the Catholic Faith.

No, I understand you’re not nit-picking. I’m not offended at all. Nor am I nit-picking on you. I find it cause for concern because there are real and important differences between Catholics and Protestants. And I worry that his statement that he now “refuses to claim a denomination” means he thinks the Catholic Church is a denomination.
Among Strangers;5140175:

By tearing down distinctions between this type of believer vs. that type of believer (Catholic v. Baptist, or what have you) it allows for an open and safe environment for people to voice their personal spiritual walk and path without fearing an instant rejection based upon a label that is imposed upon them from outside.

But we’re not tearing down distinctions. The distinctions still exist. And they’re more than a mere label. What a Catholic believes about ecclesiology, the Eucharist, etc. etc. can be drastically different from what a non-Catholic Christian believes.

By removing the label of Catholic or Protestant it allows for a dialogue based upon personal reflections and not perceived biases based upon the others view of the opposing label.

The problem is, it’s not just a label.

I have a bias against Jehovah’s Witnesses. If I met guy and we talk and he’s cool all is good, until I find out he’s a JW, then my defense mechanism come up and I don’t see him as a person any more. I see him as “other” and I am on guard. Since I am in protection mode I am now not allowing myself to really hear or see this person as a person and I am not allowing myself to be Christ to this person. I am just waiting to make my own points to defeat his, even if he isn’t trying to make any points.

I get what you’re saying here. I’ve seen people go into defense mode when I mention where I go to church. But the answer to this problem is prayer and grace.

I think it’s a great way to go about bringing unification into the Christian experience. Of course there are lots of things and stuff that would have to be worked through for whole ecclesial communities to be reunified, but a journey always begins with a first step. Organizations don’t bring about change, people bring about change. One individual takes one step, another person steps along side of him and the next thing you know something positive has happened. The only way for that positive change to take effect is for us to drop our defenses and be Christ to one another. One way to allow for that to happen is to eliminate labels.

Oh look how I’ve rambled on now …

Again, being Catholic or Protestant is about more than the name or “label.” Unity won’t come by dropping those names. Unity will come from humility, charity, a willingness to dialogue and an understanding that Jesus does not want a divided body.

We can’t deny who we are.

And now I guess I’m rambling too…

 

[prodigalson12]

The saddest part of this thread is the title.
The Church doe NOT encourage poorly catechized Catholics" to “church-hop”.

Please show me where the Catechism states that we are to be "Cathoic and Protestant" - as the OP claims he is.

PS - if you also have a problem with colors, maybe you should seek therapy.

There is much that has been said that has gone completely over your head, you try maeke sense of it, but you are clearly wrong and attack anybody that shows an understanding.

I already explained to you the purpose behind it, the two are of different context all together. If I were to say, I am Catholic and Baptist, that would be another story, I have not and you just don’t get it, I can’t make it more clear without it coming off wrong which would potentially destroy what I’ve built up.

I used your logic against you with that last post, and again, it went way over your head.

These are clear indications of something is in desperate need of help in your world, that you need to reflect upon what you are trying to do and most of all, where your faith is based upon;.

Back to a few of the other comments, the Eucharist is special, so much more, that I seperate it from the rest of mass all together. The rest changes on a regular basis, the former does not. I have heard some really good sermons from both Catholic and Protestant alike, I have heard some less then stellar ones as well, and the ones pitted with personal agenda’s and biases which are not of the Holy Spirit, I write off as empty words and leave it at that. The length and intensity of the sermons are what I enjoy when they are upon a solid foundation.

Along saying it’s not enough to simply attend service/mass once a week, take note, I said for me personally, I would feel lacking if I settled for that alone, this is just me, this is about my spiritual thirst and not about comparing myself to others saying look at me, I’m attending more services then you…

Something else I want to share. With the Catholic churches I go to as of late, it seems like they never have the same priest, that there is not one that’s permenently assigned to the parish, these guys are themselves in a way, church hopping. I don’t see that with the protestant denominations. The reason I point this out, I grew up with a church that had the same priest, when the church decided to relocate him, we were given a constant stream of new ones, that basically destroyed the community, for we no longer had that stability. It changed forever and even more so once it relocated to a new building. There was something lost that can never be regained until we get our dedicated priest again.

I have also on more then one occassion had to correct people within the protestant denominations that there is nothing to recover from when it comes to being a catholic, the term “recovering Catholic” is not being said, at least not in the ones I attend any more. It wasn’t that way prior to me being there, yet those times are few and far between luckily.

 

[elvisman]

There is much that has been said that has gone completely over your head, you try maeke sense of it, but you are clearly wrong and attack anybody that shows an understanding.

I already explained to you the purpose behind it, the two are of different context all together. If I were to say, I am Catholic and Baptist, that would be another story, I have not and you just don’t get it, I can’t make it more clear without it coming off wrong which would potentially destroy what I’ve built up.

I used your logic against you with that last post, and again, it went way over your head.
These are clear indications of something is in desperate need of help in your world, that you need to reflect upon what you are trying to do and most of all, where your faith is based upon;

Wrong. you have claimed to be BOTH Catholic and Protestant - which is an oxymoron (look it up). This is NOT possible.

Back to a few of the other comments, the Eucharist is special, so much more, that I seperate it from the rest of mass all together. The rest changes on a regular basis, the former does not. I have heard some really good sermons from both Catholic and Protestant alike, I have heard some less then stellar ones as well, and the ones pitted with personal agenda’s and biases which are not of the Holy Spirit, I write off as empty words and leave it at that. The length and intensity of the sermons are what I enjoy when they are upon a solid foundation.

**This is PRECISELY what I mean about your being poorly catechised. You can’t separate the mass from the Eucharist. The Mass is a holy sacrifice of which the Eucharist IS the center. **It is the source and summit of our faith. The problem is that you don’t know enough about your faith to even visit a Protestant church.

Along saying it’s not enough to simply attend service/mass once a week, take note, I said for me personally, I would feel lacking if I settled for that alone, this is just me, this is about my spiritual thirst and not about comparing myself to others saying look at me, I’m attending more services then you…

Something else I want to share. With the Catholic churches I go to as of late, it seems like they never have the same priest, that there is not one that’s permenently assigned to the parish, these guys are themselves in a way, church hopping. I don’t see that with the protestant denominations. The reason I point this out, I grew up with a church that had the same priest, when the church decided to relocate him, we were given a constant stream of new ones, that basically destroyed the community, for we no longer had that stability. It changed forever and even more so once it relocated to a new building. There was something lost that can never be regained until we get our dedicated priest again.

And you need to understand that the Mass is not about WHO is celebrating it.
If a priest goes from one parish to another - that isn’t “church-hopping” - it’s Parish-hopping and theyre might be a valid reason for it. There may be a priest-shortage in your area.

I have also on more then one occassion had to correct people within the protestant denominations that there is nothing to recover from when it comes to being a catholic, the term “recovering Catholic” is not being said, at least not in the ones I attend any more. It wasn’t that way prior to me being there, yet those times are few and far between luckily.

And I commend you for this. Whoever makes this comment was poorly catechized and left for a variety of reasons - spiritual laziness being the most likely.

 

[prodigalson12]

Wrong. you have claimed to be BOTH Catholic and Protestant - which is an oxymoron (look it up). This is NOT possible.

• But it is when taken into proper context, it’s like saying I’m a Dodge fan, but own a Corvette. This concept eludes you.
  This is PRECISELY what I mean about your being poorly catechised. You can’t separate the mass from the Eucharist. The Mass is a holy sacrifice of which the Eucharist IS the center. It is the source and summit of our faith. The problem is that you don’t know enough about your faith to even visit a Protestant church.
• I know more about the fundamentals then you ever will, your aggrivating posts are clearly showing it.
  And you need to understand that the Mass is not about WHO is celebrating it.
  If a priest goes from one parish to another - that isn’t "church-hopping" - it’s Parish-hopping and theyre might be a valid reason for it. There may be a priest-shortage in your area.
• If there was a shortage, then there would be mass without a priest in the first place.
  And I commend you for this. Whoever makes this comment was poorly catechized and left for a variety of reasons - spiritual laziness being the most likely.

We at least agree along one thing here.

 

[elvisman]

We at least agree along one thing here.

We probably agree on a LOT of things regarding Christianity. There are just a few thing I’ve had difficulty with.

You seem sincere - I have never questioned that. I just think that you’ve been misled or poorly-catechized and I urge you to learn more about the Catholic Faith before frequenting other denominations for spiritual food.

There have been a lot of good suggestions on this thread such as campaigning for more masses, going to another parish, urging your parish to start a bible study - and studying the scriptures in line with the Catechism. You can also get into some devotions such as the Rosary, the Divine Mercy Chaplet, eucharistic Adoration and a host of others.

Although the Mass is the ultimate Christian prayer - there are many ways for you to feed upon the word within the Catholic Church.

Anyway - at least try some of these other avenues. You might find your hunger for other denoninational worship diminish.

 

[prodigalson12]

I haven’t dismissed the other suggestions, already attend bible study and am starting a new one at my home as well for example. I never stop learning about the Church, it’s rather endless, also very much enjoy what the saints have to teach as well.

 

[Among_Strangers]

The saddest part of this thread is the title.
The Church does NOT encourage poorly catechized Catholics" to “church-hop”.

Please show me where the Catechism states that we are to be "Cathoic and Protestant" - as the OP claims he is.

PS - if you also have a problem with colors, maybe you should seek therapy.

I would prefer it if you did not address me any more. Thank you. I would rather not ignore you but if I must I will.

No mention of this request by you is required.

 

[Steven_John]

Our entire conversation has been a very confusing one because with your broken English and fractures sentence structure, you can’t get your point accross. I don’t say this as an insult - it is a simple fact.

Yes we have discussed this.

You accuse me of making things up about what you believe in, but I am only stating what you SEEM to be telling me.

Now we are getting some where, it SEEMED to me you would not let it go no matter how many times i said that is not what i offered.
Praise be to God it seems we have opened a door for dialogue.

You speak of your Parish Priest and your local Bishop, yet you say you’re not Catholic.

No here we go again I have not said I am not Catholic. We have been though my use of “my”, “our” many posts ago. I realise you are having two discussions here and that can be trying.

You STILL have not given your religious affilitation - which, on a religious discussion board is cowardly.

We will do it again, you have an issue with me not saying i am Catholic, I don’t neither do others. In previous posts we have done this over and over.
It is a statement of truth from my heart.
I am not going to just say “i am Catholic” when i do not know all that it implies. I don’t fully understand all of Her teachings and practices.
For any other Catholics that are in the same position as myself but call your self Catholic please do not think i am against you. I respect it is different for each of us. This is directed at Brother Elvis man to re-explain myself.

Your saying it is cowardly is really unfair, it may SEEM so to you but SEEMING gets in the way of our dialogue.

Here in this forum my life would much easier on me to say I am as Catholics here are least likely to bash each other based on that claim.

If it helps you I am catholic my PP says I am Catholic and many members of our parish see me as devoutly Catholic.

 

[Steven_John]

Elvisman,
bless you, it is good you are willing to be patient and share with me.

Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ

I assume this means knowledge of scripture is knowledge of Christ.

If my assumption is correct at the time you chose your tag did u consider knowledge in the context of

Colossians 1:9 or say Colossians 2:3

May God bless you for your help and honesty.

PS i agree with you the name of this thread does not describe what Prodicalson12 is actually doing, but words can be difficult between men.