Why I go the extraordinary form of the Mass

[Victorious]

I have no problem with you believing that my preference (I might even say my need) for the EF is due to my personal inadequacies.

If we didn’t have personal inadequacies, we wouldn’t have the need for the Mass (i.e., Calvary) at all.

 

[OraLabora]

This seems a strange response to a post in which I said:The things that irritate and distract me are not intrinsic parts of the OF. It is theoretically possible for the Mass to be celebrated without these things. In practice, however, I have to drive even farther to get to an OF like that than I do to get to the EF.

Or perhaps you are agreeing with me and I have misunderstood.

I missed that statement in my quick reading of your post, so in essence I agree with it.

I don’t know, not sure about this. The EF has more prayers, is focused on God and the priests tend to be orthodox. With the OF, it is focused on people more than on God (the style of worship) and its theology is quite horisontal. You hear all sorts of questionable things. Reverent OF still doesn’t do it for me.

You could absolutely not say this about the OF Mass I attend, with a straight face, once you’ve experienced it. The priests are absolutely orthodox, as most are in the Solesmes congregation. In particular, since it is in fact a conventual Mass, the “people” outside the cloister are definitely not the focus of the Mass. The tabernacle outside the main church is not uncommon in monasteries where there is a strong devotion to Eucharistic adoration.

This is a monastery that still has first Friday benediction, Sunday adoration after Vespers, Lauds and Vespers in Gregorian Chant on a one-week psalter, and follows the rubrics to the last crossed T and dotted i, and where an irreverent treatment of the Blessed Sacrament will get you in big trouble. Once a person in the pews, after receiving the Host, put it in his pocket and returned to his pew. The priest to administered it followed him to his pew and angrily told him to consume it now. No EMHC there either, everyone receives from a priest.

 

[malphono]

You could absolutely not say this about the OF Mass I attend, with a straight face, once you’ve experienced it. The priests are absolutely orthodox, as most are in the Solesmes congregation. In particular, since it is in fact a conventual Mass, the “people” outside the cloister are definitely not the focus of the Mass. The tabernacle outside the main church is not uncommon in monasteries where there is a strong devotion to Eucharistic adoration.

This is a monastery that still has first Friday benediction, Sunday adoration after Vespers, Lauds and Vespers in Gregorian Chant on a one-week psalter, and follows the rubrics to the last crossed T and dotted i, and where an irreverent treatment of the Blessed Sacrament will get you in big trouble. Once a person in the pews, after receiving the Host, put it in his pocket and returned to his pew. The priest to administered it followed him to his pew and angrily told him to consume it now. No EMHC there either, everyone receives from a priest.

Yes, but it’s not a parish. It’s an abbey church, and more importantly, an abbey church of the Solesmes Congregation. You have to admit that your situation is the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of people will never be able to experience it.

 

[AndrewF1995]

This is a great post. I agree with all of the things that you said, but what really pushed me to start going to the EF was that at my parish mass was treated almost like joke. Like the priest would move around a lot and make weird face expressions (my dad says he is just “passionate” but its really awkward to watch) and the music was like terrible. They would play all these weird songs that didn’t have anything to do with church. The EF is just so peaceful and beautiful, I love it.

 

[Victorious]

You could absolutely not say this about the OF Mass I attend, with a straight face, once you’ve experienced it. The priests are absolutely orthodox, as most are in the Solesmes congregation. In particular, since it is in fact a conventual Mass, the “people” outside the cloister are definitely not the focus of the Mass. The tabernacle outside the main church is not uncommon in monasteries where there is a strong devotion to Eucharistic adoration.

This is a monastery that still has first Friday benediction, Sunday adoration after Vespers, Lauds and Vespers in Gregorian Chant on a one-week psalter, and follows the rubrics to the last crossed T and dotted i, and where an irreverent treatment of the Blessed Sacrament will get you in big trouble. Once a person in the pews, after receiving the Host, put it in his pocket and returned to his pew. The priest to administered it followed him to his pew and angrily told him to consume it now. No EMHC there either, everyone receives from a priest.

I would definitely take this over what I get at home, where oftentimes, it doesn’t even feel like I’m at Mass. But if I had a choice between the EF and your situation, I’ll still take the EF.

 

[Robert_Burns]

This morning, as I often do, I went to the extraordinary form of the Mass. As I was driving the extra half hour it takes me to get there I was asking myself why. I went past my local parish church where I like and admire the pastor and and many parishioners. If I had gone there I could have been with my spouse and children. Alone in the car I was wondering if it was really worth it.

And I decided it was. It is not that I have concerns about the OF being valid. And, even though I think the prayers lack the doctrinal clarity of the EF, that would not be enough of a reason for me by itself. The reason I do the extra drive is for the sense of quiet and reverence. And for the relief from all the little irritations that distract me during the OF.

AT the EF I am not distracted by hymns of questionable theology. I can receive Communion the way I prefer. There is no chattering in the Church before, after or during Mass. I don’t have to deal with the distraction of immodest clothing. I feel as if the dripping of a leaky faucet were finally stopped. The things that irritate and distract me are not intrinsic parts of the OF. It is theoretically possible for the Mass to be celebrated without these things. In practice, however, I have to drive even farther to get to an OF like that than I do to get to the EF.

Should I be able to overcome these distractions? Probably. I am not going to argue with anyone who says that this is due to some sort of character flaw on my part. But, even if is caused by my own weakness, I want to go to the Mass that I leave with a sense of peace, rather than one that I come away from feeling annoyed.

Does saying these things mean that I am denigrating the OF? Perhaps some people think so. However, that is not my intention. I am describing my experience

Well Stated. My drive is an hour and ten as opposed to walking distance - but its time well spent both there and back for all the reasons you mentioned. But my wife and kids come with me.

Pax

 

[Robert_Burns]

I can get all of this at an OF Mass in a Benedictine abbey nearby (which is in Gregorian chant BTW). Moreover in the surrounding parishes (all OF), there are some that are noisy and irreverent, some where it is very quiet in the half-hour before Mass.

These are all issues of discipline, not the form of the Mass. At the local abbey, the “serious” Catholics turn out, not caring that the extra reverence adds a half hour to the Mass. I’m willing to bet that the reason that the EF Mass in your area has fewer distractions, it’s that this is where the “serious” Catholics turn out. If they had a reverent OF Mass in Gregorian chant instead of an EF Mass, you’d probably see the same thing.

Does this mean I am denigrating the EF? Far from it, it fulfills a real need. But to put all the blame for irreverence on the form of the Mass, rather than the discipline in executing the form, is not seeing the forest for the trees. A disciplined pastor, not shy to set standards, is all it would take to make a local OF more reverent.

There does seem to be a correlation between the OF and lack of Discipline however. I have travelled extensively and have gone to Mass in this and in other Countries. It would be disingenuous to say that the Discipline is the same in each form.

 

[floresco]

Well Stated. My drive is an hour and ten as opposed to walking distance - but its time well spent both there and back for all the reasons you mentioned. But my wife and kids come with me.
Pax

I want to clarify that I don’t always attend Mass without my family. Sometimes I go to the OF with them and, once a month or so, they come to the EF with me. I think my spouse is even more uncomfortable at the EF than I am at the OF. But we both want to worship together as a family so we do what it takes.

 

[ConstantineTG]

This morning, as I often do, I went to the extraordinary form of the Mass. As I was driving the extra half hour it takes me to get there I was asking myself why. I went past my local parish church where I like and admire the pastor and and many parishioners. If I had gone there I could have been with my spouse and children. Alone in the car I was wondering if it was really worth it.

And I decided it was. It is not that I have concerns about the OF being valid. And, even though I think the prayers lack the doctrinal clarity of the EF, that would not be enough of a reason for me by itself. The reason I do the extra drive is for the sense of quiet and reverence. And for the relief from all the little irritations that distract me during the OF.

AT the EF I am not distracted by hymns of questionable theology. I can receive Communion the way I prefer. There is no chattering in the Church before, after or during Mass. I don’t have to deal with the distraction of immodest clothing. I feel as if the dripping of a leaky faucet were finally stopped. The things that irritate and distract me are not intrinsic parts of the OF. It is theoretically possible for the Mass to be celebrated without these things. In practice, however, I have to drive even farther to get to an OF like that than I do to get to the EF.

Should I be able to overcome these distractions? Probably. I am not going to argue with anyone who says that this is due to some sort of character flaw on my part. But, even if is caused by my own weakness, I want to go to the Mass that I leave with a sense of peace, rather than one that I come away from feeling annoyed.

Does saying these things mean that I am denigrating the OF? Perhaps some people think so. However, that is not my intention. I am describing my experience

I wish I can convince my wife to let me go to Divine Liturgy. And its not like we sit together in Mass anyway, she’s with the choir. Now, there’s just that case of having to take care of the baby

 

[Victorious]

There does seem to be a correlation between the OF and lack of Discipline however.

Yep. In fact, I will go so far as to say I believe part of the point of the Novus Ordo was precisely to provide a platform for innovations. Now wait for the flamers…:stretcher:

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yep. In fact, I will go so far as to say I believe part of the point of the Novus Ordo was precisely to provide a platform for innovations. Now wait for the flamers…:stretcher:

I think you people are looking at it from the wrong perspective

There were many lukewarm Catholics in the TLM when the TLM was the only Mass. Now that the OF is the norm and is celebrated in most parishes, those lukewarm to the faith would go to the OF Mass. Only the devout will seek the EF Mass. I think its a wrong conclusion to say that the EF Mass goers become more reverent because of the EF. The fact is that it is the devout Catholics who seek the EF, thus those who are in the EF Masses today are reverent to begin with.

 

[Victorious]

I think you people are looking at it from the wrong perspective

There were many lukewarm Catholics in the TLM when the TLM was the only Mass.

I’m actually on record with my personal belief that because the beauty and sacredness of the TLM masked the increasing secularism and modernism within the Church, God allowed the TLM to be shelved in order to blow the lid off the corruption. You can’t begin to heal an infection you don’t know is there.

Also, I wouldn’t paint all those who attend the Novus Ordo with the brush of lukewarmness. I don’t think this is true.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m actually on record with my personal belief that because the beauty and sacredness of the TLM masked the increasing secularism and modernism within the Church, God allowed the TLM to be shelved in order to blow the lid off the corruption. You can’t begin to heal an infection you don’t know is there.

Also, I wouldn’t paint all those who attend the Novus Ordo with the brush of lukewarmness. I don’t think this is true.

I don’t think its true too. I wouldn’t consider myself lukewarm. Or maybe I am, I am just being biased. But I know I’m in a better state than where I was a few years ago.

I’m just saying, because the OF is more readily available, those so-called Sunday-only Catholics, or Christmas and Easter Catholics, would naturally go to OF Masses rather than seek out TLMs which are harder to find and more inconvenient to go to because of time and distance. Also the language barrier, if a lukewarm Catholic has the option to attend something he at least can understand, why would he choose to go to something that is in a foreign tongue. He’s not that interested in Mass to begin with, why bore himself more?

 

[Charlotte1776]

So perhaps for me EF Masses will continue to be the rare treat. I just can’t go to one mass while my wife (and eventually childern) go to another.

The latin mass downtown at Sacred Heart Cathedral on the first sunday of the month is the only one available around here now, right? If there are ones more often and you want to go, feel free to speak up.

 

[Magnus467]

I honestly don’t think that reverent OF’s are the exception. I have never been to an irreverent OF. It is always quiet beforehand, the priests say Mass by the books, are orthodox, and follow the canons of the Church. Hearing the EP’s is also very beautiful. I have been to OF’s in many different areas and several countries. I’m sure the EF is beautiful as well.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I honestly don’t think that reverent OF’s are the exception. I have never been to an irreverent OF. It is always quiet beforehand, the priests say Mass by the books, are orthodox, and follow the canons of the Church. Hearing the EP’s is also very beautiful. I have been to OF’s in many different areas and several countries. I’m sure the EF is beautiful as well.

I find smaller parishes to be more reverent and bigger parishes, because maybe of the sheer volume of people, tend to be less reverent

 

[Biedrik]

I think you people are looking at it from the wrong perspective

There were many lukewarm Catholics in the TLM when the TLM was the only Mass. Now that the OF is the norm and is celebrated in most parishes, those lukewarm to the faith would go to the OF Mass. Only the devout will seek the EF Mass. I think its a wrong conclusion to say that the EF Mass goers become more reverent because of the EF. The fact is that it is the devout Catholics who seek the EF, thus those who are in the EF Masses today are reverent to begin with.

I do somewhat agree with this. There is a certain level of post hoc ergo proctor hoc logic involved here. Since there is more reverence at the TLM, this must be because of the mass itself. Not necessarily. As Constantine points out, how many lukewarm Catholics would you find at a TLM? Most would avoid such a Mass like it was the plague, and on fire. I do think that the TLM is the superior liturgy, with better prayers and all that, but to attribute all the reverence simply to the fact that it is a TLM is erroneous.

 

[OraLabora]

Yes, but it’s not a parish. It’s an abbey church, and more importantly, an abbey church of the Solesmes Congregation. You have to admit that your situation is the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of people will never be able to experience it.

But it sets a standard that proves that reverence is possible in the OF.

Many say that the rubrics are tighter in the EF. That may be true but rubrics have never stopped priests in the OF from breaking them. What’s to suggest that if the EF was the only form, the same trends that have distorted the OF wouldn’t distort the EF? If one rubric can be broken, so can two, and so forth.

Naturally the EF will be the lightning rod that attracts devout Catholics and clergy alike. It can’t but be more reverent than the average OF parish as a result of concentrating the devout into one place; in my area there are hundreds of OF parishes for every EF parish.

But then there are also very reverent OF Masses at my abbey, at another Benedictine abbey near Montreal, at Notre-Dame Basilica in Montreal, at Mary Queen of the World cathedral, at St-Joseph’s Oratory, at a Carmelite monastery in the heart of the city, at the Sanctuary of the Blessed Sacrament in Montreal, to name a few, which are, BTW all reachable by public transit. Those churches serve as our de facto “EF” by being places where the very devout congregate.

Frankly I find the whole EF vs OF thing divisive and it is hurting the Church rather than uniting her in Christ. I think there should be one form of the Mass that takes the best elements from each form, and with better discipline to avoid messing around with the rubrics.

 

[ProVobis]

He’s not that interested in Mass to begin with, why bore himself more?

There’s probably a lot of truth there. Not that I’m recommending it, but if you take away people’s communion and the obligation to attend Mass on Sunday, you can get a truer assessment of actual interest in the Mass itself.

 

[adstrinity]

…von Hildebrand said in the early '40s that the liturgy (i.e., the Extraordinary Form, which was all there was in the Latin Rite in those days) is faith accomplished and lived. Now that I have experienced the TLM, I understand what he’s talking about.

I feel the same way about that quote attributed to Mother Teresa where God answers, “Attend one Mass”. I never knew what that was about until I started going to the EF.

That being said, I’m thinking of going to the OF this weekend. The vigil. It’s quiet, not a lot of people are there, the church is smallish but beautiful, there’s statues, there’s an altar depicting the suffering souls in Purgatory with the tabernacle built into it and the wall, it’s traditional (or at least not funky) architecture, communion rail, BUT, there’s an altar in front of the other altar depicting the Last Supper, meaning the priest does face ad gentium, the communion rail isn’t used, sometimes girl altar servers, what kills me are the female readers and/or the readers that are in polo shirts and slopy khaki shorts or jeans or something.

The OF priest is reverent, AND encourages frequent confessions AND has posted in the bulletin what is NOT appropriate attire for Mass, AND the Church teaches the faith well in RCIA (friend of mine went through it last year), BUT, argh! For pennance, he assigned me a book, it was a Christian book, or a Diest book, but, not a Catholic book. Sometimes his homilies are a little simple…I guess…maybe it’s just me who wants more theology from them (but, regardless, he does, I believe, really love God in the Eucharist).

It’s not altogether BAD, I just wish it was BEST.

Oh, and, yes, it is the people at the OF; don’t discipline their children, don’t show due reverance to God…no wonder our priests need so many prayers. Even when they are decent, they don’t get help from the parish.

…Though, I’m one to talk. This priest knows I prefer the EF and I drive out of my way to go to that Mass, and I’m not really involved in the community…but, I do want to give homage to God in the best way possible.

After experiencing the EF, there’s just something grating about the OF, and I am anxiously expecting the changes, though, I sincerely doubt they will be implemented uniformly everywhere.