Why I go the extraordinary form of the Mass

[ConstantineTG]

There’s probably a lot of truth there. Not that I’m recommending it, but if you take away people’s communion and the obligation to attend Mass on Sunday, you can get a truer assessment of actual interest in the Mass itself.

But if people don’t care about the faith, they wouldn’t care about the obligation in the first place.

In my case, when I was struggling with my faith I went to Mass out of habit, not out of obligation. And I guess a little pressure from my mom who’s devout. I don’t think I can tell her that I went to Mass when I didn’t. But back then I wasn’t thinking about the obligation to the Church.

 

[Victorious]

In my case, when I was struggling with my faith I went to Mass out of habit, not out of obligation. And I guess a little pressure from my mom who’s devout. I don’t think I can tell her that I went to Mass when I didn’t. But back then I wasn’t thinking about the obligation to the Church.

That, by the way (and not to derail the thread) is an example of the beneficial effects of cultivating good habits. We should not let the content of our prayers become a matter of mere habit and routine, but it is good to be in the habit of praying, and it is good to be in the habit of attending Mass. A habit like this can get us through a rough patch, like a struggle with the faith. For it is certainly better to persevere in attending Mass through such a struggle than to quit going.

 

[ConstantineTG]

That, by the way (and not to derail the thread) is an example of the beneficial effects of cultivating good habits. We should not let the content of our prayers become a matter of mere habit and routine, but it is good to be in the habit of praying, and it is good to be in the habit of attending Mass. A habit like this can get us through a rough patch, like a struggle with the faith. For it is certainly better to persevere in attending Mass through such a struggle than to quit going.

Thanks! I agree, if I didn’t have the basics of the faith instilled in me by my mom, I would probably have ended up agnostic and fallen away from the faith.

I think this is a good enough reason to let the lukewarm Catholics come to Mass even though a lot of us are disappointed or annoyed by them. At least they still come to Mass and who knows, one day they may be more devout than us.

 

[CradleCath]

I’m going to try to answer this without comparing the Traditional Latin Mass to the Novus Ordo. That way, maybe no one will enter this thread to argue.

The primary reason that I attend the TLM. exclusively is the prayers. The Prayers at the foot of the Altar where the priest prays that he will be made worthy to pray the Mass…myself that I made also be made worthy to attend it. These prayers show the absolute humility of the priest & the laity.

A good example is the double Confiteor, one to absolve the sins of the priest & one to absolve my own. These end with the priest praying "Take away from us our iniquities, we beseech Thee, O Lord; that, being made pure in heart we may be worthy to enter into the Holy of Holies. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Then, of course, there is the prayer before the gospel. The priest prays:
"Cleanse my heart and my lips, O almighty God, Who didst cleanse with a burning coal the lips of the prophet Isaias; and vouchsafe in Thy loving kindness so to purify me that I may be enabled worthily to announce Thy holy Gospel. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
Vouchsafe, O Lord, to bless me. The Lord be in my heart and on my lips, that I may worthily and becomingly announce His gospel. Amen.

As I’ve said before, the TLM. is a Mass said for sinners, by sinners &
I love watching & hearing the priest working out his own salvation “in fear & in trembling”, while he & I are doing the same re my own salvation. . It is as if I’ve entered into a very private place & am partaking of the holy relationship between Christ & one of the men he called By being allowed to enter into this, I become one with the priest. That isn’t a really good illustration of what is happening in this Mass, but it’s the best I can do…in translating my thoughts & feelings into words.

Now, for some secondary reasons…the priest facing the altar…makes it quite clear that he is praying FOR me, not AT me or TO me.

The Sacred Silence that many of you have mentioned is also very important to me. I cannot meditate well, without it.

The humility shown once again as we kneel to receive Our Lord, not allowing any part of our body to unnecessarily touch His Body. Many will argue that this is just a pious practice, that one’s tongue is no holier than one’s hands & that is true. However, pious practices such as this one are unique to Catholicism & must not be lost.
I could go on & on, but I won’t. I’ll just add that as the Last Gospel begins: “In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum… (In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…)” & proceeds to what I believe to be the most true & the saddest words " He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not & the Leonine prayers after Mass. In my parish over half of the Mass participants stay & pray their own private prayers of Thanksgiving for the Mass.

 

[ProVobis]

But if people don’t care about the faith, they wouldn’t care about the obligation in the first place.

In my case, when I was struggling with my faith I went to Mass out of habit, not out of obligation. And I guess a little pressure from my mom who’s devout. I don’t think I can tell her that I went to Mass when I didn’t. But back then I wasn’t thinking about the obligation to the Church.

Don’t get me wrong. I have seen people come to a weekday Mass and not receive. I would say they very much care about their faith.

 

[OraLabora]

Now, for some secondary reasons…the priest facing the altar…makes it quite clear that he is praying FOR me, not AT me or TO me.

Ad orientem is still permissible in the OF. Moreover the layout of certain churches requires it. A good example is the Benedictine abbey at Monte Cassino, where I have attended Mass twice. It was an OF Mass (in Latin and in Gregorian chant) each time, and the traditional high altar was such that the abbot said Mass facing the altar.

Then there’s the case of St. Peter’s, and Rome, where in the EF the priest faced the people (and the central altar)… this issue seems like a red herring to me.

 

[malphono]

But it sets a standard that proves that reverence is possible in the OF.

Ah yes, but of course the Solesmes Congregation has very high standards.

Many say that the rubrics are tighter in the EF. That may be true but rubrics have never stopped priests in the OF from breaking them. What’s to suggest that if the EF was the only form, the same trends that have distorted the OF wouldn’t distort the EF? If one rubric can be broken, so can two, and so forth.

That’s true but, as I’ve said before, I’d venture that the OF would be less prone to “innovation” if (a) the built-in “options” were removed and (b) what few rubrics there are were tightened a bit.

But then there are also very reverent OF Masses at my abbey, at another Benedictine abbey near Montreal, at Notre-Dame Basilica in Montreal, at Mary Queen of the World cathedral, at St-Joseph’s Oratory, at a Carmelite monastery in the heart of the city, at the Sanctuary of the Blessed Sacrament in Montreal, to name a few, which are, BTW all reachable by public transit. Those churches serve as our de facto “EF” by being places where the very devout congregate.

It’s been a number of years since I’ve been in Montreal, so I have to ask: do any (including, for that matter, St-Benoit-du-Lac) ever now use the ad orientem posture?

 

[malphono]

Then there’s the case of St. Peter’s, and Rome, where in the EF the priest faced the people (and the central altar)

Keep in mind, though, the position of the altar in the great basilicas of Rome is a unique case.

 

[malphono]

Ad orientem is still permissible in the OF. …
this issue seems like a red herring to me.

It’s more than permissible: it’s actually the posture assumed even by the OF missal.

FWLIW, as I see it, the restoration of the ad orientem posture is perhaps the single most important issue.

 

[crazzeto]

It’s more than permissible: it’s actually the posture assumed even by the OF missal.

FWLIW, as I see it, the restoration of the ad orientem posture is perhaps the single most important issue.

It would be nice for ad orientem to be restored with the new missal, unfortunetly it will take a popular lay movement to get it done. Too many priests will be afraid that the lay beleiver won’t accept it, and perhaps for the average beleiver it (even cradle catholic) it would be quite confusing.

It’s funny though, the mass really does make a lot more sense ad orientem than it does otherwise. For instance not long ago my wife and I decided to support the local Byzantine Catholic Church that was desperatly trying to get new vetiments as theirs were (literally) falling apart. They were selling BBQ chicken with all the trimmings at an (extrodenary) price.

I got to talking to one of the parishiners who was baptised Latin, then moved east due to his inability to deal with Vatican II changes. One thing that strunk me, me talked up quite a bit about the sign of the cross. How it makes more sense in the East because the lay believer goes right to left, reflecting the motion of the Priest… I didn’t actually say anything at the time, but I was thinking durring this conversation

“Yes, but the mass is supposed to be ad orientem, thus when the lay believer and clergy make the sign of the cross left right we are doing so in unison as a single body. As it should be”.

=)

 

[CradleCath]

Frankly I find the whole EF vs OF thing divisive and it is hurting the Church rather than uniting her in Christ. I think there should be one form of the Mass that takes the best elements from each form, and with better discipline to avoid messing around with the rubrics.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought that this thread asked a SPECIFIC question: “Why I go the EF form of the Mass”. We have had a bezillion threads trying to compare the Traditional Latin Mass & the Novus Ordo. This is pretty close to impossible because the very theology of the two Masses is different.
This thread, I hope, is for those of us who have attended the Traditional Latin Mass enough to understand it & give the reasons why we attend it. Hopefully, it will encourage others to give it a try. However, that is not the purpose of the thread. Please, let those of us who prefer to worship traditionally, express WHY we do.

 

[CradleCath]

Ad orientem is still permissible in the OF. Moreover the layout of certain churches requires it. A good example is the Benedictine abbey at Monte Cassino, where I have attended Mass twice. It was an OF Mass (in Latin and in Gregorian chant) each time, and the traditional high altar was such that the abbot said Mass facing the altar.

Then there’s the case of St. Peter’s, and Rome, where in the EF the priest faced the people (and the central altar)… this issue seems like a red herring to me.

Once again, this thread is NOT about a comparison of the two Masses. This thread is supposed to be a thread where those of us who attend the TLM. can share the reasons why we do so.

We are a minority & it would be very nice if we who attend the EF (or want to attend an EF) could support one another & build each other up.

 

[crazzeto]

I agree with CradleCath, this thread is meant to be a positive thread for posters to share their reasonings why they prefer the EF mass personally. It’s not meant to be a debate or comparison between the two which is why I’ve enjoyed reading this thread so much. Typically I (as OraLabradora) am quite avregated with all the arguing and bickering over mass one upmanship. This thread isn’t that though, it’s something else. Honestly I could equally participate in a thread discussing the reasons why I appreciate the OF mass and why I’m going to appreciate it even more with the new missal.

 

[OraLabora]

Ah yes, but of course the Solesmes Congregation has very high standards.

Which should serve as an example to all.

That’s true but, as I’ve said before, I’d venture that the OF would be less prone to “innovation” if (a) the built-in “options” were removed and (b) what few rubrics there are were tightened a bit.

Problem is, I have seen fiddling with the rubrics in the OF, even where there aren’t any built-in options, and where the only permissible action is black-and-white (or rather red-and-white ). The problem isn’t the options; options merely allow for bad taste to intrude. The problem is often not following the missal at all!!! I know one priest who follows the missal faithfully and he catches a lot of grief from other priests in the diocese because of it, that is the priests that “innovate”. It is therefore a matter of discipline and being obliged to actually follow the rubrics that are there.

I am sorry if I come across as a skeptic but I doubt that returning to the EF as the only form, will suddenly make all those disobedient priests suddenly obedient…

It’s been a number of years since I’ve been in Montreal, so I have to ask: do any (including, for that matter, St-Benoit-du-Lac) ever now use the ad orientem posture?

St-Benoît-du-Lac is versus populum. The abbey church faces east, but the tabernacle is in a separate adoration chapel (where there is also a 6 am Mass for the monks who’s work will prevent them from attending the conventual Mass at 11 am). I believe St-Joseph’s is also versus populum. Mary Queen of the World cathedral was modeled on St. Peters, except that the altar, a copy of St. Peter’s, is at the east and not west end of the church. I can’t say for Notre-Dame, had a new altar installed in 1998 to celebrate versus populum unfortunately.

Many of our churches have unfortunately been ruined by replacing the high altar. I was happy to see in Chicoutimi’s cathedral a couple of weeks ago, that they restored the high altar which had been dismantled and relegated to storage in the basement. But there is unfortunately a new altar between the nave and the high altar from which Mass is celebrated; at least it’s in the sanctuary though unlike some misguided innovations. It’s actually one of the nicer cathedrals I’ve seen:

Cathédrale de Chicoutimi

 

[Momofmyangels]

Once again, this thread is NOT about a comparison of the two Masses. This thread is supposed to be a thread where those of us who attend the TLM. can share the reasons why we do so.

We are a minority & it would be very nice if we who attend the EF (or want to attend an EF) could support one another & build each other up.

Yes, I agree. It has been a pleasure to read this thread and actually find that others have the same love and desire to attend the TLM. It is disheartening that this always ends up in a debate.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

I suggest we all simply go to the rite we prefer, those who choose one of the other rites will simply be considered to be ill-informed. These food fights serve only to polarize the forum, I know they have suckered me into making a few unkind remarks.

 

[Momofmyangels]

I suggest we all simply go to the rite we prefer, those who choose one of the other rites will simply be considered to be ill-informed. These food fights serve only to polarize the forum, I know they have suckered me into making a few unkind remarks.

You know, at first I agreed with this, because all the arguments and debates back and forth are tiring and gets old quite fast. But then, I thought how sad that one could not even discuss a topic as benign as “Why I go to the Extraordinary Form of the Mass.” After all, it says, “Why I go…” No one can argue with another person when they are discussing their reasons why they are attending the TLM. No one can argue with someone else’s desires, or someone else’s needs, or what someone else feels fulfills them.

If you no longer can express your opinion about your own needs and stick up for yourself, then what is to keep us from being silent on other important topics, like abortion, same-sex marriage etc. After all, you’ll get the same arguments when trying to discuss those issues…“that’s just your opinion.”

I do apologize as this is way off topic. But one day, I am going to have to answer for how I raised my children and if I was a good example to them. If I do not speak up for what I think is right, how will my children ever learn to do the same?

 

[OraLabora]

Well, a forum is to debate and discuss. Nobody ever pretended that it was a mutual self-congratulation society.

In the “why I prefer the EF” issue, there is a lot of misinformation and denigrating of another valid rite of the Mass in the Church, and I think it is essential to break the misconceptions. Many of the reasons for preferring the EF are valid in the sense that there’s no OF Mass locally that addresses the needs, but that’s not a flaw in the OF as much as in the application of it and that’s what in my opinion, some very vocal people fail to grasp.

I fully recognize that the OF is all too often poorly executed. What I would like to see is the OF done with all the reverence and orthodoxy that our Lord deserves, and the EF remain in effect as a valid alternative based on personal choice and historical continuity. There is no need for those who prefer one or the other to put down those who do not share their preference. It is especially odious that those preferring the OF should somehow be portrayed as less pious or Catholic. That is neither charitable nor Catholic.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Well, a forum is to debate and discuss. Nobody ever pretended that it was a mutual self-congratulation society.

In the “why I prefer the EF” issue, there is a lot of misinformation and denigrating of another valid rite of the Mass in the Church, and I think it is essential to break the misconceptions. Many of the reasons for preferring the EF are valid in the sense that there’s no OF Mass locally that addresses the needs, but that’s not a flaw in the OF as much as in the application of it and that’s what in my opinion, some very vocal people fail to grasp.

I fully recognize that the OF is all too often poorly executed. What I would like to see is the OF done with all the reverence and orthodoxy that our Lord deserves, and the EF remain in effect as a valid alternative based on personal choice and historical continuity. There is no need for those who prefer one or the other to put down those who do not share their preference. It is especially odious that those preferring the OF should somehow be portrayed as less pious or Catholic. That is neither charitable nor Catholic.

quod erat demonstrandum!

 

[The_Old_Medic]

Going to Mass, in whatever format, while having your spouse and children attending a different Mass, shows a significant problem.

You REALLY need to look into your heart and discern why you are splitting your family like that. You are developing some very questionable reasons for not attending Mass with your family. You are setting a horrible example for your children and you are not showing respect for your spouse.

You need to figure out why you are doing this (and it has little to do with the liturgy, etc.).