Why I identify as homosexual even while living chastely

[InSearchofGrace]

I sought those out because I cannot scan that paragraph out of my catechism and post it for you guys to see - as I don’t have a scanner.

But if you wanna say my catechism contains wrong information because it is out dated, that’s fine.

I disagree, however, that changing the wording on an updated edition changes the Church teaching itself. I still believe the same message is getting across, and that is that SSA is not chosen, and is not a sin in and of itself. You disagree? So you believe the Church was wrong at one point? And you believe ALL the people who have SSA are lying when they inform us that they did not choose to be that way? Including the OP of this thread? Hmmm.

The new catechism does not use the word choice, but it uses the word inclination. An inclination is not something that is freely chosen. People don’t choose to have inclinations. Again, I think the same message is getting across here.

***Nuance is what needs to be understood. A slight difference can lead to unintended or erroneous interpretation.

---

Anyway, this exchange has gotten me fired up enough to research the slight variation of the CCC 2358 text. The topic has been investigated by someone in Defenders of the Catholic Faith. You can scroll down a bit to where the investigator Edward Pothier discussed that:

*The first edition of the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH had a statement which could have been interpreted to say that some people were born homosexual (or at least did not choose that orientation themselves). But CCC 2358 no longer says of men and women with deep-seated homosexual tendencies: “They do not choose their homosexual condition”. This was what was included in the the English version of 1994 based on the previous French language version. As of September 1997 it has been officially changed. [The changed CCC does not deny the statement about “not choosing”, it just does not state it and replaces it with a completely different theme.]

Some of the changes made in 1997 were almost trivial; in some cases only adding a cross reference. But CCC 2358 was very significantly changed. The second sentence formerly was “They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial.” Now it reads: “This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.”

Original CCC English edition (emphasis added) wrote:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.

In September of 1997 the official Latin text of the Catechism was finally promulgated by Pope John Paul II. There were a number of official “corrections” to the English translation issued by the CDF on September 8, 1997. These were to bring the English translation into harmony with the now-official Latin text.

Current official version of CCC 2358 (emphasis added) wrote:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.

Debora, you will notice the investigator used “corrections” in quotes. IOW, it does not mean that the Church has changed its teaching; rather the Church has clarified its teaching in the 1997 edition.

Btw, I checked the Defenders of the Faith site because I am one of those who learned to appreciate the wisdom of checking out the source first, after getting burned (embarrassed) by citing an inauthentic ‘Catholic’ source myself which actually supported anti-Catholic positions. Yes, it happened to me too and I can admit it! In case you’re interested the Defenders site, it is hosted by Stephen Ray, whose credentials are known to Catholic Answers. You can do a background check of the site and Stephen Ray yourself.
.

 

[Debora123]

You guys are impossible.

My position remains the same:

Having a homosexual orientation is not a sin and is not something that is freely chosen.
Sin arises only when the homosexual tendencies are ACTED upon.

This IS what the Church teaches, no matter how anyone wants to twist it up.

I am checking out.

God bless.

 

[jomoco]

God did not create homosexuals to be homosexuals he created men and woman who made the choice to be homosexual big difference .What denomination? Just curious

How do you come by your intimate knowledge of what God did, and did not create, and His purpose and reasons for doing it His way, which is not our’s?

Do you absolutely know these assertions of your’s are true, or do you merely assume they are?

jomoco

 

[Elizabeth502]

This IS what the Church teaches, no matter how anyone wants to twist it up.

We’re not twisting it, Debora. It’s just that distinctions can be very important in a full understanding of the dynamic between attraction and behavior, between atraction and personhood, between attraction and “identity.” It’s important not to adopt secular definitions and distinctions when speaking of, and understanding, the moral realm as defined not by non-Catholic websites but by the magisterium. I’m sure you weren’t deliberately trying to insert confusion; but you were only being corrected for the sake of important accuracy of terms, that’s all.

Catholic moral theology has a structure within itself. It’s important to understand the essential (and current) language of that structure so as not to slip into secular equivalencies, that’s all. The same words are sometimes applied or understood differently in different thought systems.

 

[Defender1]

How do you come by your intimate knowledge of what God did, and did not create, and His purpose and reasons for doing it His way, which is not our’s?

Do you absolutely know these assertions of your’s are true, or do you merely assume they are?

jomoco

It is called common sense and logic . Also have scripture education

 

[John21652]

***Nuance is what needs to be understood. A slight difference can lead to unintended or erroneous interpretation.

---

Anyway, this exchange has gotten me fired up enough to research the slight variation of the CCC 2358 text. The topic has been investigated by someone in Defenders of the Catholic Faith. You can scroll down a bit to where the investigator Edward Pothier discussed that:

The first edition of the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH had a statement which could have been interpreted to say that some people were born homosexual (or at least did not choose that orientation themselves). But CCC 2358 no longer says of men and women with deep-seated homosexual tendencies: “They do not choose their homosexual condition”. This was what was included in the the English version of 1994 based on the previous French language version. As of September 1997 it has been officially changed. [The changed CCC does not deny the statement about “not choosing”, it just does not state it and replaces it with a completely different theme.]

Some of the changes made in 1997 were almost trivial; in some cases only adding a cross reference. But CCC 2358 was very significantly changed. The second sentence formerly was “They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial.” Now it reads: “This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.”

In September of 1997 the official Latin text of the Catechism was finally promulgated by Pope John Paul II. There were a number of official “corrections” to the English translation issued by the CDF on September 8, 1997. These were to bring the English translation into harmony with the now-official Latin text.

Debora, you will notice the investigator used “corrections” in quotes. IOW, it does not mean that the Church has changed its teaching; rather the Church has clarified its teaching in the 1997 edition.

Btw, I checked the Defenders of the Faith site because I am one of those who learned to appreciate the wisdom of checking out the source first, after getting burned (embarrassed) by citing an inauthentic ‘Catholic’ source myself which actually supported anti-Catholic positions. Yes, it happened to me too and I can admit it! In case you’re interested the Defenders site, it is hosted by Stephen Ray, whose credentials are known to Catholic Answers. You can do a background check of the site and Stephen Ray yourself.
.

The Internet is full of qoutes from the earlier version of the Catechism on this subject. The change describing homosexuality as a “disorder” and an “inclination” has done no more than to espouse more fully the Natural Law argument for homosexuality being a disorder. It is glaringly obvious that the older and mistranslated version is to be found on pro-gay rights web sites across the Internet, as they see it as a glimmer of hope that Catholicism might actually excuse homosexuality. That is impossible, considering the Natural Law foundations of the Church. In terms of homosexuality being an “inclination”, any human can act on any inclination, whether it be homosexuality or wanting to kill your mother in law. Inclinations can be quite whimsical in their fundation. There is always a choice to be made. Benjamin Franklin once wrote about the inclination of old men to talk about themselves, but that doesn’t mean they did! As far as homosexuals are concerned, it doesn’t matter whether they were born with it, or developed it at a later stage, once they undertake homosexual relations they have transgressed the Natural Law, the Catholic Church’s doctrine on the subject and have sinned against God.

 

[Eugenius]

You guys are impossible.

My position remains the same:

Having a homosexual orientation is not a sin and is not something that is freely chosen.
Sin arises only when the homosexual tendencies are ACTED upon.

This IS what the Church teaches, no matter how anyone wants to twist it up.

I am checking out.

God bless.

Don’t worry, I understood where you are coming from. Even when you are on their side somehow these super-educated responders still make you feel like you are being accused of something nefarious.

 

[Eugenius]

They consider them still to have the attraction, or likelihood of (permanent) attraction, but they do not consider that the core of their personhood is homosexuality, any more than the core personhood of the rest of us is heterosexuality. The Church does not define personhood as one centered in sexuality, period. I’m not going to continue to see this erroneously addressed here. We identify our personhood as dignified (equally, all of us) daughters and sons of The Living God, and brothers and sisters of Christ, regardless of any level of disordered attraction, and any category of that disordered attraction (sexual or non-sexual). Lots of us heterosexuals have disordered, non-sexual atractions. We do not define ourselves by a disorder.

Hopefully future updates to the catechism will make this more clear.

 

[speakttruth]

By editing 95 percent of your opinions, and boiling the leavings under a brisk fire, I’ve managed to distill the essence of your message, the first half of which I totally agree with you on. The second part is rather silly, this assumption of yours that God did not create homosexuals with a specific intent/purpose known only to Him.

Who’s been telling you these tales my friend, some old frail fallible men?

According to my KJ Bible, God created everthang!

jomoco

Catholics don’t go by the KINGS JAMES Bible I didn’t say he didn’t create everything, but sin, because their is no sin in God. Ask your priest, if one is following his faith. look at your Catholic Bibles. He didn’t create the homosexuality, he created the person with that problem. He didn’t intend for us to be perverted. What God makes mistakes!

 

[mariafransisca2]

Hello,

I don’t usually hang in this section. I hang in the Spirituality section. But I was caught by this thread called, can a homosexual be a heterosexual?

My answer would be YES!

Here is my story
I am a female, 21 years old, of chinese descendent, living in Indonesia. When I was around 14, I fell in love with this woman, her name was Sandra. She wasn’t that pretty, but I thought, at that time, something caught me more than just her externals. She was my english teacher at that time. Lo and behold, I experience that “falling in love” like, head over heels. I have never experienced that before. Before that I identify myself as a heterosexual. But after experiencing that falling in love, I don’t know anymore.

I started researching on the Internet, and I found this gay forum, which was horrible. And I made some friends. These friends were older than me. And have had more experiences in this matter, and one of them gave me “gay movies” And I started watching them.

I didn’t want to identify myself as a lesbian or bisexual, because I just don’t think I am. I was just in love with this person who happened to be a woman. But my weaknesses got in, and I started watching gay porn. And little by little I was lead to believe that I was gay.

She got married, and had to move to the US, because her husband is American. I was crushed, at that time, very crushed. And as a teenager, full of vigour and dreams, I think I would go to America and “stole” her from her husband so that she could be mine. And we can live happily ever after (haha, that was a MORTAL sin)

I wasn’t happy during that time, during my teenage years, I committed many mortal sins and lived far away from God. I got invoved in pornography almost daily and constantly, and I have to say, that I think it is almost impossible to be a homosexual and living chastely.

I gave up my school to earn this scholarship to America (my thinking at that time), but I failed. But during that time, I emailed her, around once every two weeks, and I let her know my feelings, how I was in love with her. She was happy to know that I was in love with her, and I guess our feelings were reciprocal. The only difference is that she didn’t consider herself to be gay, and she loves me, but not in that way.

When I was older, around 20 years old, I began to make sexual moves on her on our emails, because I was drunk. She never replied again, because she was hurt. She loves me and she had suggested that we should be friends, even friends till old age. She finds me interesting and a person with interesting and witty personality (in her own words), and I was touched.

But when I was around 16, my dad got in an affair, and I was desperate. I thought about committing a suicide ( a mortal sin, and I can go to hell straight away), but thankfully I didn’t have a courage. But I was desperate and have lost hope. I turned to Jesus. I said, putting my head near the closet, because I had been plundering about things in the bathroom, I said, Jesus, have mercy on me a sinner.

Jesus have mercy on me a sinner!

Jesus have mercy on me a sinner!

As many times as I liked. And I went to this place which I thought were a retreat place, but it was not. It was a rehabilitation centre. There were some mentally ill people (people who spoke to themselves), but some of them had the same complaints. They were stressed out with their lives. I stayed there about 3 months. I went to confession, read the bible, prayed the rosary daily. And everytime I fell, I just say, Jesus have mercy on me a sinner.

Truth be told, I was in desperate condition at that time, I did not feel like I was a human. I didn’t know what I was anymore, because of the sins I was involved before, because of being hurt by my father. But Jesus healed me little by little, he healed my soul, my body, but gradually. As I continued to say, Jesus have mercy on me a sinner!

After that I was taken to this monastery, a poor clares monastery, and I met this sister, Sister Elfrida. She was very sweet and gentle, she looked at my condition and felt pity on me. She helped me, and she asked me what was the problem. I said, I fell in love with this woman and I quit school to pursue her, she already had a husband. And this sister told me, you are not a homosexual. You are precious in the sight of God. You are smart, you are beautiful. In short, she made me feel like I am precious. And she gave me love.

Love and attention that I’ve been looking for from my mother and father yet have not had it.
And she told me, maybe you have heart wounds, you know, someone who have hurt you in the past, let’s take care of that.

And she asked me to tell her stories about my past. And I remembered vividly, that at around the age of 8 I saw my Dad watching porn, and I was horrified because at that time I didn’t know what it was. I just saw a woman naked, that’s all. And I was hurt. Because it was my DAD. He was supposed to be faithful and loving to my mother, not the other way around. And around that time also, I saw my mother and father “having sex”. They watched porn while doing it, and kept condoms in their room.

The keyhole at the door at that time is “peekable” , meaning, you can take a peek. So I did, and I saw my mother butt naked. And I was horrified!

There was this porn music surrounding it. And I was only eight. I know nothing about sex and it was my first time of knowing it in such a terrible and horrifying way.

Turned out, it hurt me. And after that I cannot make friends with any boy whatsoever and I think that boys are evil and dirty. Before that I have had friends who were boys, have had close ones as well. They were Weyta and Weyli.

 

[mariafransisca2]

So, in my teenage years I began having attractions to girls and shunned boys. Boys are evil (in my thought). It was the relationship I had with my father.

So, this sister asked me, if you want to cry you could. And I cried like crazy. I said I have been having this burden, of seeing my dad watched porn and my parents together together, and could not yet figure it out, all my life. And this sister helped me. She said I should forgive my parents, especially my dad. That way, I will be healed.

So, I prayed the rosary countless of times to forgive my dad. Besides, in my teenage years, my dad did some horrible things to me, he taught me self help books which was of no use, because at that time I was still 13. And have no interest in it whatsoever. I think that self help books are lies. Because you don’t depend on God to solve your problems, or to help you, but you depend on your own powers and intellect. And yes, they are lies. We can do nothing without God. We cannot help ourselves. Only God can.

Plus, he almost committed adultery when I was 16, so I was just very very confused about my dad. So, I forgive him. I said, Father, forgive my father for he knew not what he did, and say as many hail marys as I like until I feel deep peace in my heart and Jesus healed my heart.

I still feel same sex attraction now, but I shun it off. I tend not to look at women in the face, I cast my eyes down. But I do experience attraction to men too, so I consider myself to be normal.

This another sister, of Carmel, told me, that homosexuals, transgenders, they are just hurt by their parents (father or mother), and almost all of them had bad relationship or is not loved by their father or mother. Or, when they were in the womb, they were expected another sex than what they are. For example, if a mother had a baby boy, but she expected to have a baby girl. The stronger the expectation, the more rejection the baby boy felt, so when he grew up, especially during his teenage years, he will become effeminate to fulfill the expectations of her mother. To get the love from her mother. To be accepted as he is.

The only way to heal this, is by prayer of healing. That if the boy forgives his mother, who had expected him to be a girl when in the womb, and somebody or the boy himself pray a prayer of healing and forgiveness. He will be healed.

There is no homosexuals or transgenders. There are just heart wounds. Heart wounds because of being hurt by a father or a mother. Or looking for a mother figure or a father figure.

I know because during my childhood I was quite a tomboy. When I was in my teenage years I desired to be a real woman, because I find that many boys were attracted to me, so I think I would like to be a pretty woman. Not a tomboy. But I found it very hard.

This sister of Carmel asked me to ask my mother if she had expected me to be a boy when I was in the womb. And since I was the first child, my mother said, yes, during the first months I had expected you to be a boy and had looked baby boy clothes and toys.

There you go! The source of me being a tomboy. I used to have short hair. But now I grow it, to be have a long hair. Since in the bible it is said that it is a sign of honor for a woman to have a long hair.

So, this sister of Carmel, whose name is Sister Vianney, prayed a prayer of healing when I was in the womb, so that I can be a fully woman, not a tomboy anymore, and it worked!

I pray also, and I forgive my mother for wanting me to be a boy when I was in the womb. Maybe it is the reason why I had been having same sex attraction in the first place.

I am not saying I am fully healed but I think 80%. I had asked Jesus, Jesus, why do I still experience same sex attraction (especially to those woman who is especially pretty and dress immodestly), why don’t you take that away from me? I do not want it anymore?

I do not yet have the answer, but it is just a cross I have to bear daily and patiently.
I have made a decision to live chastely and keep my virginity for Jesus for all time. And have decided to live a single life for him. For now and forever. That means, forgoing marriage.

I find that the love of Jesus suffices for me. He is my life, my love, my happiness. I love him more than anything. More than anyone. He is my everything. I am his spouse. He is my bridegroom and I am his bride.

If you want to learn more about being the bride of Christ, and the love he has for you as his spouse, you should read Spiritual Canticle of the Soul - by St. John of the Cross. It is written in a loving tone of a spouse. Christ is your bridegroom, and you are his bride. St. John of the Cross were completely in love with the Lord, and it is written in the same tone of Song of Songs.

Actually the book of Song of Songs, is directed to us. Christ is speaking to us as his wife, as his spouse, which he considers pretty and beautiful.

You should also read Interior Castle - By St. Teresa of Avila. In it, Jesus revealed to St. Teresa of Avila that a soul in a state of Grace is compared to a castle made of Crystal. The beauty is incomparable, because God dwells in the deepest recesses of the castle, that is the 7th mansion, the deepest recesses of our hearts.

The beauty of the soul.

That is what Jesus said in the Song of Songs. The beauty of a soul in a state of Grace. Jesus is in love with me and I with him.

It is only I and him. He looks at me and I look at him.

 

[mariafransisca2]

About Sandra, I emailed her awhile back, to say that I am sorry. And I want to be her friend, her best friend. And I experienced that sort of “in love” feelings all over again. So I asked Jesus, Jesus, what is this love that I have for Sandra. Why do I feel this way toward her, like to none others. I have never felt this to anyone, not even a boy. So I ask him, is it possible for a soul who is a woman to be in love with another soul who is a woman?

And Jesus let me know through interior inspiration, that this in fact is possible. In love, with a chaste love. I had been listening to Jason Evert about chastity, so I feel drawn to this beautiful virtue called chastity. I want to live a chaste life for Jesus. I remembered that St. John of the Cross, in his Spiritual Canticle, St. John is a man, and he considered himself to be a bride of Christ, and Christ is his bridegroom. And he is in love with Christ, with a chaste love.

And I thought to myself, isn’t he a male?

But I tried not to dwell on it, because God is a mystery. God is love. So love is a mystery.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen had a talk, titled, Sex is a mystery.

I agree with him.

So I said, Jesus, I am happy that Sandra have a wonderful and loving husband. I am happy for her. As a sister, as a mother, as a daughter. She doesn’t have any children, so I said to her, I can be your daughter. To put things in perspective. I love her, as a mother, as a daughter, and as a sister.

And as a best friend. And yes, I am still in love with her. She is my best friend.

This morning, I experience the same feeling of in love, with the Mother of God. Mother Mary. I said, Mother, you are so beautiful, I am in love with you.

And she answered, I am in love with you too.

See, we can love one another with a chaste love, as Jesus had loved us. And how has he loved us, read the Song of Songs, and you will understand. It is written in a tone of a loving spouse. Christ is your bridegroom, and you are his bride.

I do believe we can fall in love with another soul, who is the same sex as ours, we love her as a sister, as a daughter, as a mother. If you are a male, then as a brother, as a father, as a son.

If you want to know why I said this, it is because we are created in the image and likeness of God. God is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The Father loves the Son, in the Holy Spirit. And if you listen to Christopher West, Man and Woman is created in the image and likeness of God, the Love that God share between the three persons, The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, is intended that a Man and a Woman share that too. In sexual relationship, that is faithful, total, fruitful. The Fruit is children.

Just like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, who is love. Actually, Family is made in the image and likeness of God. It reflects the relationship God has in the trinity. The relationship of Love. Eternal love that The Father give to the Son, totally in the holy spirit. And the happiness they share. That is why we are called to love one another as Jesus loved us, and to be one with him.

It is a mystery, it says in the bible, of the unity of Man and Woman, in marriage. It reflects the marriage of the Lamb. The eternal love we will share, in the divine life of the Father, and of the Son, the love that they share, in the holy spirit. In the words of Christopher West, the eternal explosion of Love.

We are Created in the Image and likeness of God who is Love. God is love and mercy itself. So, we have to love one another as Jesus have loved us.

How had he loved us? By dying on the cross for us. To redeem us. Forgiving us of all our sins and adopting us as the sons and daughters of God. We are also his spouse. So… Love is a mystery. The love that spouses share, man and woman, is a mystery.

And this love can only be realized, if we live in full communion with Christ, and abide in his love. So that we can share the love that we feel from God, to one another. And love one another as Jesus had loved us.

May the merciful Jesus bless you, and grant you understanding about the beauty of human sexuality. That the sexuality that he has given us as a gift, and it is a beautiful gift. And he has a plan for our sexuality. And that plan is chastity.

I think Sandra has an inexplicably beautiful Soul and I love her. As a friend, as a mother, as a daughter, and as a sister. God has permitted me to love her, even encouraged me.
When I opened my heart to love her, there is a whole lot of horizons opened for me. My relationship with God grew more personal, with Mother Mary and with my brothers and sisters saints. She is my best friend, and God has decided it before he founded the world. I just had a bad time of realizing it, and fitting it in God’s plan for me in my life. I misunderstood my own feelings, while he gave me Sandra, for my best friend. To heal me. To love me. And to love. So that we can be the image and likeness of God who is love. We can be like God. God who is love and mercy itself.

Now I go to confession weekly, have 4 regular confessors, and I love Jesus more than anything in the world!

My homepage:
chastityislove.blogspot.com/
saintsarefamily.blogspot.com/

Links:

Christopher West - Theology of the Body
Christopher West Free Audio - Naked Without Shame
Free Saints Books
saintsbooks.net/BooksList.html
basilica.org/pages/ebooks.php
everycatholicblog.blogspot.com/

 

[mariafransisca2]

Please pray for her! Isnt’ she lovely?

May the merciful Jesus bless you

 

[Elizabeth502]

Don’t worry, I understood where you are coming from. Even when you are on their side somehow these super-educated responders still make you feel like you are being accused of something nefarious.

Those who care about the quality and efficiency of debate are not in the persecution business, Eugenius. We’re in the accuracy business. Re-read my last post to her; nothing accusatory about it. There’s been a huge failure in catechesis in the Catholic Church for decades, and we’re seeing the fruits of it now, as does our Pope, who has written about it. That crisis in understanding and too-often sloppy or inadequate teaching has resulted in essential compromise to understanding and interpreting moral theology.

Lots of misunderstandings on this discussion forum alone, let alone out there in the parishes, RCIA programs, etc.

 

[speakttruth]

Alleluia, I am so happy for you. I have a son with SSA and wants to say he is Gay and accept that life and just won’t listen to reason and has bought into the lies. I wish more people could read your posts. I coudn’t have said some of those things better myself.
God bless you

 

[speakttruth]

David,
Amen, I am so happy for you. I have a son who wants to identify with himself as Gay and has bought into the lies. I wish more people would read your post, I couldn’t have explain things better myself. I am involved with the Encourage part of courage. Their is a conference in Chicago August 4th. Too bad you couldn’t go, what a great Testimony.
God bless you

 

[speakttruth]

David,
Amen, I am so happy for you. I have a son who wants to identify with himself as Gay and has bought into the lies. I wish more people would read your post, I couldn’t have explain things better myself. I am involved with the Encourage part of courage. Their is a conference in Chicago August 4th. Too bad you couldn’t go, what a great Testimony.
God bless you

Ooops didn’t realize this was not a person on here, but a story about David. Still a great story.

 

[raaucoin]

God bless you

god bless you too.

 

[Eugenius]

Those who care about the quality and efficiency of debate are not in the persecution business, Eugenius. We’re in the accuracy business. Re-read my last post to her; nothing accusatory about it. There’s been a huge failure in catechesis in the Catholic Church for decades, and we’re seeing the fruits of it now, as does our Pope, who has written about it. That crisis in understanding and too-often sloppy or inadequate teaching has resulted in essential compromise to understanding and interpreting moral theology.

Lots of misunderstandings on this discussion forum alone, let alone out there in the parishes, RCIA programs, etc.

Unfortunately your tone often undermines your intention.

 

[John21652]

Unfortunately your tone often undermines your intention.

You are the one whose post reeked of sarcasm when you referenced super-educated responders in post #205.