Why I identify as homosexual even while living chastely

[gethumble]

To the detractors of the original poster,

There are two aspects of your argument that seem to be in tension, but I am probably just misunderstanding something. As a catechumen, i beg your forgiveness for my lack of knowledge or understanding.

The first argument is that homosexuality is a violation of nature, of God’s intentions for us, i.e., it takes a man and a woman to procreate, therefore…

The second part of the argument against homosexuality is that it is a choice.

My question is this: if heterosexual procreation is natural, then why has a massive cultural apparatus been erected to quash the “choice” of homosexuality? Why is such policing necessary? If all the detractors of homosexuality the world over suddenly fell silent, would homosexuality spread until we all became homosexual? Are you saying it is that good? Or is there a threshold, a distribution of homosexuality in the population that is more or less constant? There are some scientists who suggest that it is, that homosexuality is a “natural” way of making sure that a small percentage of the population does something other than procreate. From this, one might imagine that God has a division of labor for us all. We are “called” to do different things in life, such as become chaste priests for example, and this improves the health of the group as a whole. Now, I am not going to “imagine” what God wants for us any more than I am going to cherry-pick a few passages from the Holy Book to draw the opposite conclusion.

I will say this. The Bible is a guide to our understanding of God. God, Christ, and the universe are infinitely complex and ultimately unknowable. The Church is made up of men, wise men, devout and pure men, but men nonetheless. We as humans are not outside of nature, to my understanding. Therefore, while we should take the teachings of the Bible and the Church is invaluable guides to our faith and behavior, I worry that there is too much certainty in the voices of the detractors, too much faith that they know for certain what the Lord wants for us, too much certainty that they know what the mysteries of life are “for.”

May God bless my full fellowship with the lesbians, gays, transgender, the straight, and their detractors in their struggles to find fullness in the light of the Lord God and his son Jesus Christ.

If I have offended any of you, or if I am wrong, please pray for me and tell me where I have erred so that I may step closer to the light.

Love,

gethumble

 

[michelleds]

[snip]As a catechumen, [snip]

From this, one might imagine that God has a division of labor for us all. We are “called” to do different things in life, such as become chaste priests for example, and this improves the health of the group as a whole. Now, I am not going to “imagine” what God wants for us any more than I am going to cherry-pick a few passages from the Holy Book to draw the opposite conclusion.

I will say this. The Bible is a guide to our understanding of God. God, Christ, and the universe are infinitely complex and ultimately unknowable. The Church is made up of men, wise men, devout and pure men, but men nonetheless. We as humans are not outside of nature, to my understanding. Therefore, while we should take the teachings of the Bible and the Church is invaluable guides to our faith and behavior, I worry that there is too much certainty in the voices of the detractors, too much faith that they know for certain what the Lord wants for us, too much certainty that they know what the mysteries of life are “for.”

May God bless my full fellowship with the lesbians, gays, transgender, the straight, and their detractors in their struggles to find fullness in the light of the Lord God and his son Jesus Christ.

If I have offended any of you, or if I am wrong, please pray for me and tell me where I have erred so that I may step closer to the light.

Love,

gethumble

As a catechumen, you might not have read these verses from the Bible:

Lev 18:22 you shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination

Lev 20:13 if a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination

Rom 1:18-32 but especially 24-32

24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

1 Tim 1:9-10 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Also, you might not yet have read the Catechism regarding this issue:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

 

[jomoco]

All of us benefit greatly by following Jesus’ example of leading a good Christian life of kindness and sacrifice, yet so very few do.

Those most bellicose in their denunciation of others, while completely ignoring their own glaring flaws and myriad sins, have of their own freewill, consigned themselves to rule by flawed men, whose ways are not the ways of God, or even a poor facsimile of Jesus as portrayed in today’s bible!

If your authority is genuine, then why is your ship foundering and your flock diminishing?

Truth is an objective Christian’s rudder towards his or her’s God and promised heavenly rewards here on earth, which are not insubstantial I’m told.

Let objective truth, kindness and sacrifice guide each of us through to heaven on earth.

jomoco

 

[gethumble]

Dear Michelleds,

Thank you for your response. I am aware of those passages, and the position of the Church as articulated in the catechism. I wonder about the translations into English from the OT and Romans. I wonder about the exact meaning of “abomination” as it was translated from Greek or Aramaic. I wonder also why we don’t also follow the admonitions in Deuteronomy or Leviticus regarding the transfer of slaves, the wearing of wool and linen simultaneously, and numerous other contraventions of tradition.

I guess my question is, why is this “abomination” so important relative to the others? Why don’t we also care about linen and wool?

The Catechism is something I will have to study more fully and accept. I am not trying to wiggle out of these rules. I am not gay myself, though I do have gay friends, and it pains me to have to think of them as “gravely disordered.” Can I not think of them so and still become a Catholic?

Thank you for your patience.

In faith,

gh

 

[michelleds]

Dear Michelleds,

Thank you for your response. I am aware of those passages, and the position of the Church as articulated in the catechism. I wonder about the translations into English from the OT and Romans. I wonder about the exact meaning of “abomination” as it was translated from Greek or Aramaic. I wonder also why we don’t also follow the admonitions in Deuteronomy or Leviticus regarding the transfer of slaves, the wearing of wool and linen simultaneously, and numerous other contraventions of tradition.

I guess my question is, why is this “abomination” so important relative to the others? Why don’t we also care about linen and wool?

The Catechism is something I will have to study more fully and accept. I am not trying to wiggle out of these rules. I am not gay myself, though I do have gay friends, and it pains me to have to think of them as “gravely disordered.” Can I not think of them so and still become a Catholic?

Thank you for your patience.

In faith,

gh

These are good questions, gh, for you to be pondering as you prepare to enter the Church. This particular line of questioning deals with Mosaic Law and Natural Law. as you’ve stated that you are a catechumen, I have no idea what your background is, whether you are well-read in theology, or have no background. I apologize ahead of time for any lack in my attempt to answer.

In drafting my response to you, I came across the following and so liked how the author worded this, that I’m just going to quote it. from catholicbasictraining.com/apologetics/coursetexts/6j.htm

Why, then, do Christians condemn certain practices which are in the Mosaic Law if the Mosaic Law no longer applies? There are two reasons – firstly, because the reasons for condemning some practices (such as homosexuality) are not removed by the fulfillment of the Mosaic Law. These behaviors are morally unacceptable in all respects, and damage individuals, society and their relationships with God. Additionally, however, the Scriptures condemn these actions themselves – for example I Corinthians chapter 5 makes it clear that sexual immorality is unacceptable. Galatians 5:19-21 provides a clear list of sins and immoralities which lead to damnation.

In short, Catholics (and all Christians, who took their moral precepts from the Catholic Church in the main) do not follow the Mosaic Law at all. What we do is follow a moral code which is similar and which was given to us by Jesus Christ during the Incarnation. Just as the people living in the modern United States used to follow British Law, and now follow American Law – there are similarities between the two legal systems which are based on the natural law and fundamental moral truths of the universe, but they are not the same legal systems.

 

[Elizabeth502]

To the detractors of the original poster,

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2477
He becomes guilty:

• of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them

Who here has committed detraction? This is a very serious charge and should be reported to the moderators if you can make such a charge.

Thank you.

 

[Eugenius]

You are the one whose post reeked of sarcasm when you referenced super-educated responders in post #205.

Uh, yeah, and that was my intention.

 

[Obby]

Now, when I admit to being a lesbian (and yes some people actually ask) my yes to that isn’t a proclamation of a sin, it is a declaration of faith because it is also followed by witness to the teachings of the Church and the awesome Power of God to give us what we need to live as He would have us no matter the issue or cause. I am a lesbian, a professional, a musician, a sister, daughter, an aunt, a friend, a child of God and His Church,A Cajun, an American. In all of those things, I am a sinner and a saint.

You have a wonderful true Christian testimony that has really touched my heart. It’s inspiring to read about you taking up your cross daily and following Christ.

I don’t think you should deny being a lesbian any more than an alcoholic that is abstaining daily from alcohol would deny she is STILL an alcoholic struggling to crucify her flesh.

When you admit that you are STILL a lesbian struggling each minute to follow the Lord and overcome your flesh, you are giving people with the same tendencies hope - May the Lord Jesus Christ lavish His grace on you and all those you touch.

 

[raaucoin]

You have a wonderful true Christian testimony that has really touched my heart. It’s inspiring to read about you taking up your cross daily and following Christ.

I don’t think you should deny being a lesbian any more than an alcoholic that is abstaining daily from alcohol would deny she is STILL an alcoholic struggling to crucify her flesh.

When you admit that you are STILL a lesbian struggling each minute to follow the Lord and overcome your flesh, you are giving people with the same tendencies hope - May the Lord Jesus Christ lavish His grace on you and all those you touch.

Thank you. And as a recovering alcoholic with almost 15 yrs sobriety I appreciate your post on both counts. And to offer hope in the redemptive power of our Lord is in fact my intent- for all who need it but especially those who feel locked in to a homosexual “way of life”. Please pray for me and everyone searching for a way (more internal than external) to get back Home.

 

[raaucoin]

gethumble
My dear friend: I see you are a catechumen. As a member in full communion with the Body of Christ, I welcome you as you are learning more about the Faith and I look forward to the day when you will be received totally into this wonderful Body the Church.
Just a reminder to you and anyone else who may be following this thread and hasn’t jumped in yet.–We are a family of over a billion and if you factor in those who have gone before us ( the Church Triumphant and the Church suffering) well the numbers can’t be counted. The opinions of those on these forums-including mine-are only the opinions of a miniscule portion of the Church.
And it has been correctly pointed out that what the Church actually teaches has in many cases been misrepresented and out right perverted. I have shared my experience. But I have also stated that I am opened to -and in fact- continue to discern the will of God. I am too small to discern His will for the Church as a whole. For that, I leave it up to those the Lord has entrusted with that mission : Our Holy Father and our Bishops. As for me, I stay close to the word of God, the Holy Sacraments and my Pastor and Bishop.

I believe it was to others as well as St. Teresa of Avilla that the Lord instructed her to remain obedient to her (their) bishop(s) even if he be in error. For in obedience to the bishop, we remain obedient to Him. So I live my faith life trusting that the Lord Jesus, the Good Shepherd has brought me this far and He will not let me be lost again, so long as I honestly seek His will. My only assurance of that is to follow the shepherds He has given me here in this life. And I trust that if I do so and they be in error He will take it up with them.Obviously, there could arise something against what has been revealed to me.If a Bishop were to say ok, be gay have a gay relationship, that’s an obvious one and I’d be required to notify His brother bishops. But in matters I don’t have info. about I must trust Him. He is the authority in my diocese.
My point is this.There may be a priest or even a Bishop on these forums. But those who basically are saying the info. and guidance I have received is wrong are in no position to make that call. I was told, to remain chaste , to avoid near occasions of sin, not to encourage sinful behavior in others
and to seek to increase in holiness.I was not given a list of words or definitions I am restricted from using. As you continue in your journey, be concerned about what the Church does say; not about what others think She says. Or what others assume She means by what is not spelled out clearly As for interpreting those teachings, go to your priest and bishop or those to whom you have been intrusted to by them. And if something you learn seems to conflict with your knowledge or previous lessons, go to your priest or bishop.
– And by the way, I seriously doubt that there are homosexual folks around as a natural means of population control or of making sure humanity isn’t just pro-creating all day!
Again: Nature or Nurture? Who cares! We don’t sit around debating each other as to whether the thorn in St. Paul’s flesh was given to him at birth or if he aquired it along the way. We do know he asked the Lord to remove it and he was refused.I and many others have begged the Lord to remove this and for now anyway, it seems He has refused to do so. I’m not going to argue with Him over it, just try to figure out how in my weakness His glory may shine.
Please pray for me and know that I pray for you as you continue on this wonderful journey.

 

[raaucoin]

Oh! and about the gravely dis-ordered thing. I don’t think as a whole I am gravely dis-ordered. But in relation to the Natural Law and the ordered purpose of sexual attractions, yes- my orientation, tendencies, attractions ( go ahead insert whatever word you like!) are dis-ordered. My tolerance and ability to responsibly drink alcohol are also dis-ordered in comparison to “normal” people. I have 3 absessed teeth as I right this and my relationship to prescription pain meds is so dis-ordered that I figured out 15 yrs. ago I have to have someone else determine if I need it and to dispense it to me if I do.

Do any of these dis-ordered conditions make me any less deserving of the dignity God has created me with? Not on your life! Now I wouldn’t recommend you casually drop the word “disordered” around to your freinds unless you are entering into a serious discussion in which you can further explain its use.

 

[speakttruth]

You have a wonderful true Christian testimony that has really touched my heart. It’s inspiring to read about you taking up your cross daily and following Christ.

I don’t think you should deny being a lesbian any more than an alcoholic that is abstaining daily from alcohol would deny she is STILL an alcoholic struggling to crucify her flesh.

When you admit that you are STILL a lesbian struggling each minute to follow the Lord and overcome your flesh, you are giving people with the same tendencies hope - May the Lord Jesus Christ lavish His grace on you and all those you touch.

Are you proud to be an alcoholic? When we use the wordage Lesbian, its says you are active or promoting homosexuality. Apparently she is proud to be one and being a lesbian is immoral.
She would be hailed a hero by the homosexual community. As Catholics we don’t have to announce ours sins. One thing is different, as far as alcoholism, they have actually found that it can be a genetic predisposition, so if you would to say you were more prone to it because of your parents, you would have an understanding why it would be easier for you to get addicted to alcohol. There is not a genetic reason to be a homosexual, they have tried to find the gay gene and they couldn’t . Believe me the homosexual researchers have tried and if they did find it, you would see them splashing in the News. Evidence is that homosexuality is more destructive besides being disgusting to have same sex. The pathology of homosexuals is the highest than any other group of people. Meaning they have the most diseases, alcoholism, emotional problems, addictions to pornography, drugs among other addictions. I wouldn’t want to hail I was a lesbian unless I liked being one. She wants it both ways and as a Catholic we aren’t suppose to promote homosexuality which she is, even if she isn’t having a partner right now, by the very definition of a lesbian. If she said she has a Same sex attraction that is different, but why would you want to tell that problem either, that would be just a temptation not a sin anyway. But she lived as a lesbian and now she says she still is. If she wanted to live a holy and chaste life she would be getting rid of that term. That is not who she is, it’s what she was doing. Having sex with the same sex is the only thing that makes her a lesbian. Nothing else. It’s all about the sex. That is why it’s such a perversion and very different than just being an alcoholic. You not perverted if your an alcoholic, but some people don’t do good things when they are drunk, so that is why it can lead you to sin. They say it’s actually a allergic reaction to the alcohol that’s what I have been told. But that’s not who you are either. To say your identity is an Alcoholic isn’t a positive. Anymore than a drug addict. Do you say hi I am an alcoholic? Many Gay people come right out an announce this perversion. Although we are all sinners, we are supposed to try and not sin, mortal sin especially, but sin is nothing to be proud of. There is Catholic ministry called Courage, www.couragerc.net , for people struggling with same sex attraction and want to live a chaste life and they use the same 12 step program as AA. Most homosexuals have an addiction to sex among other things. Any apologetic in this forum I believe would not encourage her to use that term.

 

[Edward_H]

Oh! and about the gravely dis-ordered thing. I don’t think as a whole I am gravely dis-ordered. But in relation to the Natural Law and the ordered purpose of sexual attractions, yes- my orientation, tendencies, attractions ( go ahead insert whatever word you like!) are dis-ordered. My tolerance and ability to responsibly drink alcohol are also dis-ordered in comparison to “normal” people. I have 3 absessed teeth as I right this and my relationship to prescription pain meds is so dis-ordered that I figured out 15 yrs. ago I have to have someone else determine if I need it and to dispense it to me if I do.

Do any of these dis-ordered conditions make me any less deserving of the dignity God has created me with? Not on your life! Now I wouldn’t recommend you casually drop the word “disordered” around to your freinds unless you are entering into a serious discussion in which you can further explain its use.

A loss of a sense of sin is a troubling thing.

Deliberately nursing resentment can be a grave sin. Yet we’ve seemed to have lost “deliberate resentment” as a sin. We don’t notice the callouses building up on our soul.

We should ask God for a greater sensitivity to sin. Not to become scrupulous but to have a more refined conscience. Sin can make it hard to hear the Father’s gentle inspirations in our daily life.

 

[gethumble]

Rauccoin,

I am humbled by your humility! This brings me one step closer to embracing the Church fully. It’s about the authority of the Church and the wisdom of God, not about what I want things to be.

I pray for your continued power to follow in the Path.

perhaps part of my resistance to accepting the authority of the Church is that I sin as well. I would like to think that watching Youtube videos of television weather presenters is innocent, but it’s not. It’s pornography. The tv stations dress these women in alluring clothing to increase viewership, and I am not without sin in watching them with less than pure eyes.

I have installed Safe Eyes on my computer to block those videos (not easy as they don’t fit the usual categories), and am working on a way to “lose” the password.

I am sorry if this seems off topic, but I wanted to let you know that I am struggling too with following the Church fully, and that I confess to having my own venal and selfish reasons for doing so.

I accept the catechism of the Church, and submit to the authority and wisdom of the Church.

God be with you Rauccoin, and thank you for your candor and support!

God bless you all!

gh

 

[meltzerboy]

Are you proud to be an alcoholic? When we use the wordage Lesbian, its says you are active or promoting homosexuality. Apparently she is proud to be one and being a lesbian is immoral.
She would be hailed a hero by the homosexual community. As Catholics we don’t have to announce ours sins. One thing is different, as far as alcoholism, they have actually found that it can be a genetic predisposition, so if you would to say you were more prone to it because of your parents, you would have an understanding why it would be easier for you to get addicted to alcohol. There is not a genetic reason to be a homosexual, they have tried to find the gay gene and they couldn’t . Believe me the homosexual researchers have tried and if they did find it, you would see them splashing in the News. Evidence is that homosexuality is more destructive besides being disgusting to have same sex. The pathology of homosexuals is the highest than any other group of people. Meaning they have the most diseases, alcoholism, emotional problems, addictions to pornography, drugs among other addictions. I wouldn’t want to hail I was a lesbian unless I liked being one. She wants it both ways and as a Catholic we aren’t suppose to promote homosexuality which she is, even if she isn’t having a partner right now, by the very definition of a lesbian. If she said she has a Same sex attraction that is different, but why would you want to tell that problem either, that would be just a temptation not a sin anyway. But she lived as a lesbian and now she says she still is. If she wanted to live a holy and chaste life she would be getting rid of that term. That is not who she is, it’s what she was doing. Having sex with the same sex is the only thing that makes her a lesbian. Nothing else. It’s all about the sex. That is why it’s such a perversion and very different than just being an alcoholic. You not perverted if your an alcoholic, but some people don’t do good things when they are drunk, so that is why it can lead you to sin. They say it’s actually a allergic reaction to the alcohol that’s what I have been told. But that’s not who you are either. To say your identity is an Alcoholic isn’t a positive. Anymore than a drug addict. Do you say hi I am an alcoholic? Many Gay people come right out an announce this perversion. Although we are all sinners, we are supposed to try and not sin, mortal sin especially, but sin is nothing to be proud of. There is Catholic ministry called Courage, www.couragerc.net , for people struggling with same sex attraction and want to live a chaste life and they use the same 12 step program as AA. Most homosexuals have an addiction to sex among other things. Any apologetic in this forum I believe would not encourage her to use that term.

As long as you mentioned alcoholics, you should realize that people in the 12-step program at AA do come up to the podium and announce to all participants that they are an alcoholic. This is because denial is very common and insight into one’s affliction is regarded as the first step toward recovery. Making such a public declaration does not mean, however, that one defines one’s whole being as that of an alcoholic or that one is proud of being an alcoholic.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

As long as you mentioned alcoholics, you should realize that people in the 12-step program at AA do come up to the podium and announce to all participants that they are an alcoholic. This is because denial is very common and insight into one’s affliction is regarded as the first step toward recovery. Making such a public declaration does not mean, however, that one defines one’s whole being as that of an alcoholic or that one is proud of being an alcoholic.

True. However, the introduction in AA meetings are with like afflicted alcoholics. The sessions are structured as such for therapeutic purposes.

I don’t think recovering alcoholics in an outside social setting or even in an internet forum do the same (except where the internet discussion is about addiction or personal struggle).

In a social gathering where alcohol is offered, a recovering alcoholic would simply pass and need not explain to anyone the reason.

As two people get to know one another, certainly, the struggle may be disclosed. During and after introduction, the point of reference need not be alcoholism or one having had the problem, unless the context or situation calls for a disclosure and when the person has decided to open up about it.
,

 

[meltzerboy]

True. However, the introduction in AA meetings are with like afflicted alcoholics. The sessions are structured as such for therapeutic purposes.

I don’t think recovering alcoholics in an outside social setting or even in an internet forum do the same (except where the internet discussion is about addiction or personal struggle).

In a social gathering where alcohol is offered, a recovering alcoholic would simply pass and need not explain to anyone the reason.

As two people get to know one another, certainly, the struggle may be disclosed. During and after introduction, the point of reference need not be alcoholism or one having had the problem, unless the context or situation calls for a disclosure and when the person has decided to open up about it.
,

I agree with what you say, Grace. I was replying to speakttruth’s comment that the Catholic ministry, “Courage,” uses the same 12-step program used by AA. If that is so (and I’m not familiar with the ministry), then they would begin with a face-to-face encounter with their problem, which includes identifying themselves before all group members as homosexual. Just like alcoholics, other drug addicts, gamblers, smokers, and those with food addictions, it may be surprising how many gay people (even those with an active gay lifestyle) deny to themselves and others, sometimes for many years, that they are in fact gay. One’s sexual identity may not define who one is entirely but it surely plays a significant role in forming the totality of one’s personal identity, as does one’s gender, culture, ethnicity, religion, profession, politics, and tastes.

 

[Obby]

Are you proud to be an alcoholic? When we use the wordage Lesbian, its says you are active or promoting homosexuality. Apparently she is proud to be one and being a lesbian is immoral.
.

I am neither an alcoholic, nor a lesbian. I’m a man.

Did you bother to read her opening testimony? She was not defending her sin, she was only stating that she struggles with this and with the help of the Lord she is overcoming.

Have you ever called yourself a “sinner”? I hope you have, because that’s what you and I are, whether you admit it or not. By using the term lesbian and testifying that she is living the Christian life she can help others overcome their sinful tendencies. Could she fail? Yes, we are all in danger, but by being open, she can hold herself accountable and get help from her brothers and sisters in Christ.

What secret sins do you need to openly admit to?

 

[Debora123]

I agree with what you say, Grace. I was replying to speakttruth’s comment that the Catholic ministry, “Courage,” uses the same 12-step program used by AA. If that is so (and I’m not familiar with the ministry), then they would begin with a face-to-face encounter with their problem, which includes identifying themselves before all group members as homosexual. Just like alcoholics, other drug addicts, gamblers, smokers, and those with food addictions, it may be surprising how many gay people (even those with an active gay lifestyle) deny to themselves and others, sometimes for many years, that they are in fact gay. One’s sexual identity may not define who one is entirely but it surely plays a significant role in forming the totality of one’s personal identity, as does one’s gender, culture, ethnicity, religion, profession, politics, and tastes.

 

[Obby]

One thing is different, as far as alcoholism, they have actually found that it can be a genetic predisposition, so if you would to say you were more prone to it because of your parents, you would have an understanding why it would be easier for you to get addicted to alcohol. There is not a genetic reason to be a homosexual, they have tried to find the gay gene and they couldn’t .

Because of original sin, we are all predisposed to sin, and each person struggles with their own set of weaknesses.

Blessed are the merciful, for they will obtain mercy.