Why I kneel to recieve

[TheMc]

When you enter a church, what do you do? Kneel (briefly, normally called a genuflection).

During the consecration, when the Lord comes into the church, what are you doing? Kneeling.

When the priest holds up the host and says: "Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world…", We are kneeling.

When we humbly respond “Lord, I am not worthy…”, We are kneeling.

When you are in adoration, what (ideally) do you do, at least part of the time? Kneel.

And just for kicks, what does the priest do during most of benediction and exposition? Yep. He Kneels.

It’s pretty clear that in the Roman Rite, kneeling when in the presence of the Eucharist is the best thing to do, particular when it’s out of the tabernacle.

But, when he comes into you at holy communion, what do you do? Do you stand? Doesn’t this seem like a little bit of a disconnect to kneel when he comes into the church, and kneel when you are in his presence, kneel when you worship during benediction and Mass, but stand when you receive him? There is much wisdom in the ways of old. The church didn’t do these things for no reason.

Does anyone else see this disconnect? Infirmity aside, I can’t think of a good reason why you would kneel, when you put everything in perspective.

Comments.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

When the priest holds up the host and says: "Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world…", We are kneeling.

That is not universal in the Roman Rite. Universal law only requires kneeling from the Epiclesis to the Mysterium Fidei.

It’s pretty clear that in the Roman Rite, kneeling when in the presence of the Eucharist is the best thing to do, particular when it’s out of the tabernacle

After someone has received communion the Eucharist is still out of the tabernacle but Church law allows for standing, kneeling, or sitting.

Doesn’t this seem like a little bit of a disconnect to kneel when he comes into the church, and kneel when you are in his presence, kneel when you worship during benediction and Mass, but stand when you receive him? There is much wisdom in the ways of old. The church didn’t do these things for no reason.

But the GIRM does state: “20. The uniformity in standing, kneeling, or sitting to be observed by all taking part is a sign of the community and the unity of the assembly; it both expresses and fosters the spiritual attitude of those taking part.”

and again in 62: “They should become one body, whether by hearing the word of God, or joining in prayers and song, or above all by offering the sacrifice together and sharing together in the Lord’s table. There is a beautiful expression of this unity when the faithful maintain uniformity in their actions and in standing, sitting, or kneeling.”

 

[MarkThompson]

Does anyone else see this disconnect? Infirmity aside, I can’t think of a good reason why you would kneel, when you put everything in perspective.

Comments.

The main “good reason” I can think of is that the Vatican has elected to repose in the bishops’ conferences the authority to prescribe either standing or kneeling as the posture for reception of Communion, and instructed that “[t]he faithful should willingly adopt the method indicated,” (Eucharisticum Mysterium no. 34), which in the case of the United States is standing.

The explanations you give would all have been very good reasons for our bishops to have settled on kneeling as the prescribed posture, but that’s a different question altogether.

 

[TheMc]

That is not universal in the Roman Rite. Universal law only requires kneeling from the Epiclesis to the Mysterium Fidei.

My mistake.

After someone has received communion the Eucharist is still out of the tabernacle but Church law allows for standing, kneeling, or sitting.

But kneeling is still allowed. And traditionally, you would kneel, if you could.

But the GIRM does state: “20. The uniformity in standing, kneeling, or sitting to be observed by all taking part is a sign of the community and the unity of the assembly; it both expresses and fosters the spiritual attitude of those taking part.”

and again in 62: “They should become one body, whether by hearing the word of God, or joining in prayers and song, or above all by offering the sacrifice together and sharing together in the Lord’s table. There is a beautiful expression of this unity when the faithful maintain uniformity in their actions and in standing, sitting, or kneeling.”

I don’t see your point here. It mentions kneeling both times. Therefore, it can “foster unity” and be a “beautiful expression of this unity” if everyone receives kneeling. Could you please explain what you meant?

 

[TheMc]

The main “good reason” I can think of is that the Vatican has elected to repose in the bishops’ conferences the authority to prescribe either standing or kneeling as the posture for reception of Communion, and instructed that “[t]he faithful should willingly adopt the method indicated,” (Eucharisticum Mysterium no. 34), which in the case of the United States is standing.

Good point. Mark, you’ve always got the perfect document for every occasion!

The explanations you give would all have been very good reasons for our bishops to have settled on kneeling as the prescribed posture, but that’s a different question altogether.

I guess maybe that’s what I’m getting at then. I’m all for obedience to the letter, but something like this (kneeling) just makes so much sense. I guess I’m sort of thinking out loud on this one.

 

[csoup223]

I used to be a genuflector when it came to receiving communion, but I was eventually convicted in prayer about this. Actually it’s all over Scripture as I think about it now. The particular verse that the LORD hit me with at the time was from 1 Samuel 15:22

But Samel said: “Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obedience to the LORD’s command.?”

We could go back and forth on whether or not it is more revenant to be kneeling in front of our Eucharistic Lord, but in the end it doesn’t really matter. The fact is the US Bishops have stated that the proper gesture of reverence before receiving communion is a profound bow. I don’t have to like it, but do have to do it because ultimately God cares more about my obedience than He does about whether or not I’m kneeling or bowing. Absolutely a very good case could be made that we should be kneeling, and I might even agree with it, but unless the bishops are convinced, kneeling only serves to make me disobedient. Ultimately obedience is the greater sacrifice.

 

[TheMc]

I used to be a genuflector when it came to receiving communion, but I was eventually convicted in prayer about this. Actually it’s all over Scripture as I think about it now. The particular verse that the LORD hit me with at the time was from 1 Samuel 15:22

We could go back and forth on whether or not it is more revenant to be kneeling in front of our Eucharistic Lord, but in the end it doesn’t really matter. The fact is the US Bishops have stated that the proper gesture of reverence before receiving communion is a profound bow. I don’t have to like it, but do have to do it because ultimately God cares more about my obedience than He does about whether or not I’m kneeling or bowing. Absolutely a very good case could be made that we should be kneeling, and I might even agree with it, but unless the bishops are convinced, kneeling only serves to make me disobedient. Ultimately obedience is the greater sacrifice.

I can see where you are coming from, and understand completely. But on the other side, my bishop is in full support of those wishing to kneel, including much of a whole parish), and the pope is encouraging people to also, even when he’s in the US. Not to mention the documents that say you may always kneel. So I guess I’m kinda torn on this one. I guess I’d be easier of the US just changed their norm to kneeling.

Also, kneeling was the norm for so long. Why change it?

Also, in Febuary 03, the CDWDS said this (Prot. n. 47/03/L):

Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion

 

[MarkThompson]

We could go back and forth on whether or not it is more revenant to be kneeling in front of our Eucharistic Lord, but in the end it doesn’t really matter. The fact is the US Bishops have stated that the proper gesture of reverence before receiving communion is a profound bow.

You would think so, right? But actually what is prescribed is merely a bow of the head.

 

[TheMc]

The other thing I forgot to mention. There seems to be a lot of supposedly conflicting information about this on both sides, so I can’t blame anyone for wanting to go either way simply by looking at the paper trail. The overriding concept that should prevail (in my mind) is that the first 100 years after a council are always difficult. Looking at what’s happened since VII, who would have ever guessed that?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

But kneeling is still allowed. And traditionally, you would kneel, if you could.

It is indeed allowed, but also so are other options. I was merely pointing out that some people/parishes don’t kneel at those times and its perfectly acceptable.

I don’t see your point here. It mentions kneeling both times. Therefore, it can “foster unity” and be a “beautiful expression of this unity” if everyone receives kneeling. Could you please explain what you meant?

I was pointing out the preferance of the Church for uniformity of action. Thus once the USCCB proscribes a norm for receiving, we should give more than passing notice to the nationally prescribed norm given Rome’s preference for uniformity.

 

[TheMc]

It is indeed allowed, but also so are other options. I was merely pointing out that some people/parishes don’t kneel at those times and its perfectly acceptable.

I see.

I was pointing out the preferance of the Church for uniformity of action. Thus once the USCCB proscribes a norm for receiving, we should give more than passing notice to the nationally prescribed norm given Rome’s preference for uniformity.

I understand now. I don’t necessarily agree, but it would be redundant to restate my point(s). See posts 7 and 9.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I understand now. I don’t necessarily agree, but it would be redundant to restate my point(s). See posts 7 and 9.

Obedience doesn’t ask for our approval, it asks for our compliance

 

[Love_Divine]

When you enter a church, what do you do? Kneel (briefly, normally called a genuflection)**.**Kneeling and genuflecting aren’t the same.

During the consecration, when the Lord comes into the church, what are you doing? **Kneeling.**Standing

When the priest holds up the host and says: "Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world…", We are kneeling.Standing

When we humbly respond “Lord, I am not worthy…”, We are kneeling****Standing.

When you are in adoration, what (ideally) do you do, at least part of the time? Kneel. My parish doesn’t do adoration

And just for kicks, what does the priest do during most of benediction and exposition? Yep. He Kneels.My parish doesn’t do either

It’s pretty clear that in the Roman Rite, kneeling when in the presence of the Eucharist is the best thing to do, particular when it’s out of the tabernacle.

I’m from Canada, so our postures are different.

But, when he comes into you at holy communion, what do you do? Do you stand? Doesn’t this seem like a little bit of a disconnect to kneel when he comes into the church, and kneel when you are in his presence, kneel when you worship during benediction and Mass, but stand when you receive him? There is much wisdom in the ways of old. The church didn’t do these things for no reason.

Does anyone else see this disconnect? Infirmity aside, I can’t think of a good reason why you would kneel, when you put everything in perspective.

Comments.

In the NO I would prefer to kneel, as it makes receiving on the tongue a lot easier and less problematic. Given an altar rail, kneeler, or even a step to kneel on, I would. However, in most parishes I attend, it’s not set up to kneel without causing issues trying to get back up off the ground quick enough so the person behind me doesn’t run me over.

 

[TheMc]

I’m from Canada, so our postures are different.

In the NO I would prefer to kneel, as it makes receiving on the tongue a lot easier and less problematic. Given an altar rail, kneeler, or even a step to kneel on, I would. However, in most parishes I attend, it’s not set up to kneel without causing issues trying to get back up off the ground quick enough so the person behind me doesn’t run me over.

Really? Do you guys in Canada kneel at all?

 

[ZDHayden]

If I may, NewEnglandPries, a “norm” does not indicate a requirement in everyday usage, correct? You will have to forgive me, a lot of terminology in law I am not familiar with.

Also, to quote again:

Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion

strikes me as interesting in that it states that those who kneel are NOT disobedient, because, if someone were disobedient, then there would have to be an obligation to correct said disobedience. Since there is a prohibition against correcting those who kneel, does it not follow that it is not disobedience?

I am simply curious. The Vatican seems in support of kneeling on the whole, but if the sole reason to be uniform is a sign of unity (a poor reason ultimately from a philosophical standpoint), and one is not to be seen as disobedient if one does otherwise, I do not see a problem. Perhaps I am missing something. Should (which is tantamount to a suggestion) does not equal must (imperative), however, and not following with that ‘should’ does not strike as sinful or disobedient.

Until I am told to stop by my parish priest, I will continue to kneel before our Lord. Then, at that time, it would be disobedience, since all that has been shown by the documents is preference.

How will we respond to seeing Him in Heaven (if we get there)? Our practice is here at Mass.

 

[Love_Divine]

Really? Do you guys in Canada kneel at all?

Yeah for a bit after returning to our pews from communion, unless the parish doesn’t have kneelers. (I’ve been to a brand new parish with comfy pews and no kneelers and no one knelt after communion. I tried, but the church was designed with a significant downward slope to the sanctuary, and I kept falling forward whenever I closed my eyes)

 

[zab]

If I may, NewEnglandPries, a “norm” does not indicate a requirement in everyday usage, correct? You will have to forgive me, a lot of terminology in law I am not familiar with.

Also, to quote again:

strikes me as interesting in that it states that those who kneel are NOT disobedient, because, if someone were disobedient, then there would have to be an obligation to correct said disobedience. Since there is a prohibition against correcting those who kneel, does it not follow that it is not disobedience?

I am simply curious. The Vatican seems in support of kneeling on the whole, but if the sole reason to be uniform is a sign of unity (a poor reason ultimately from a philosophical standpoint), and one is not to be seen as disobedient if one does otherwise, I do not see a problem. Perhaps I am missing something. Should (which is tantamount to a suggestion) does not equal must (imperative), however, and not following with that ‘should’ does not strike as sinful or disobedient.

Until I am told to stop by my parish priest, I will continue to kneel before our Lord. Then, at that time, it would be disobedience, since all that has been shown by the documents is preference.

How will we respond to seeing Him in Heaven (if we get there)? Our practice is here at Mass.

If your mother asks you do to do something but says that you are not obligated to do as she asks, some will do as mother asks, because they respect their mother. No one should think less of those who do as their mother asks.

 

[ZDHayden]

If your mother asks you do to do something but says that you are not obligated to do as she asks, some will do as mother asks, because they respect their mother. No one should think less of those who do as their mother asks.

I apologize if it seemed I was disrespectful to those who choose to stand. That was not my intention. Please forgive me.

I simply do not understand why. Perhaps this is childish, but I trust in the Bishops enough to believe they have a valid reason. I do not know what that is - that is my problem. Perhaps I am stubborn. If it comes to either respecting our Lord and obeying a council that is not Mother Church (unless I’ve been horribly catechized - a possibility, especially without my knowing) without any reason, I will respect our Lord. If Holy Mother Church were to state otherwise, I would reform my ways, but the option for kneeling is still available. There is a difference between stating a preference and giving a command. If my Bishop were to command I stand, I would obey. He has not. He (or, rather, his predecessor, he himself has not said anything yet) has stated, that, for the sake of an appearance of unity, he would like it for me to stand. I still am able to kneel if I so wish.

I disagree with your analogy. What we have here is not my mother asking me to do something but saying that it is not obligatory (something that, in my case at least, would be a contradiction, has been and will be until the day one of us dies) but rather my mother saying “You have three choices: A, B, and C. It would be nice of you to do A, but you can do B or C as well, and you have my support.”

 

[TheMc]

I apologize if it seemed I was disrespectful to those who choose to stand. That was not my intention. Please forgive me.

I simply do not understand why. Perhaps this is childish, but I trust in the Bishops enough to believe they have a valid reason. I do not know what that is - that is my problem. Perhaps I am stubborn. If it comes to either respecting our Lord and obeying a council that is not Mother Church (unless I’ve been horribly catechized - a possibility, especially without my knowing) without any reason, I will respect our Lord. If Holy Mother Church were to state otherwise, I would reform my ways, but the option for kneeling is still available. There is a difference between stating a preference and giving a command. If my Bishop were to command I stand, I would obey. He has not. He (or, rather, his predecessor, he himself has not said anything yet) has stated, that, for the sake of an appearance of unity, he would like it for me to stand. I still am able to kneel if I so wish.

I disagree with your analogy. What we have here is not my mother asking me to do something but saying that it is not obligatory (something that, in my case at least, would be a contradiction, has been and will be until the day one of us dies) but rather my mother saying “You have three choices: A, B, and C. It would be nice of you to do A, but you can do B or C as well, and you have my support.”

Also, the situation is complicated even more by:

• The GIRM saying “it’s better of you stand”, to the point of almost prohibiting kneeling
• The pope saying (and backing up words with actions) “it’s better if you kneel”
• The most US bishops saying “it’s better if you stand”
• Some US bishops (like mine) saying “kneeling is better”
• Redemptionis Sacramentum saying “Listen to your bishops…but you can still kneel if you want”
• The CDWDS saying “it’s not disobedient or illicit to kneel. Ever.”
• And the list goes on

It’s very confusing. I guess in this matter, I’ll take my cues directly from the pope. If it’s good enough for him (and my bishop, for that matter), it’s good enough for me. If he is encouraging everyone to do it, I’ll take that as the latest instruction from Rome. I’ll happily oblige and drop to my knees. If it’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me.

I still think the 100 year rule explains all of this…

 

[zab]

Also, the situation is complicated even more by:

• The GIRM saying “it’s better of you stand”, to the point of almost prohibiting kneeling
• The pope saying (and backing up words with actions) “it’s better if you kneel”
• The most US bishops saying “it’s better if you stand”
• Some US bishops (like mine) saying “kneeling is better”
• Redemptionis Sacramentum saying “Listen to your bishops…but you can still kneel if you want”
• The CDWDS saying “it’s not disobedient or illicit to kneel. Ever.”
• And the list goes on

It’s very confusing. I guess in this matter, I’ll take my cues directly from the pope. If it’s good enough for him (and my bishop, for that matter), it’s good enough for me. If he is encouraging everyone to do it, I’ll take that as the latest instruction from Rome. I’ll happily oblige and drop to my knees. If it’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me.

I still think the 100 year rule explains all of this…

We should all take our cues from the pope. From what I have been reading on the internet there seems to be a growing number of pastors and bishops who are doing just that. As far as your bishop is concerned, in the link to the video that you provided your bishop said that several Prie dieu were made available for people to kneel… For the past two years, my pastor has been having the First Communicants to receive their First Holy Communion on the tongue while kneeling at a Prie Dieu. He also began having Latin Mass twice a month and at that time several prie dieu are brought up front. But for the most part, with Mass in the OF, the posture is to stand while receiving Communion. I know that my pastor has been very seriously trying to find a way to reinstall a Communion rail back into our Church. I have read posts on this forum about church’s that have never removed their Communion rails and that they are still being used. It would not surprise me if one day in the future Communion rails would once again be put in all or most of the churches. But in the mean time, the norm of posture for receiving Communion is standing. And as far as judging others, it goes both ways. Those who follow the norm and do as their bishops ask them to do should not be considered any less reverent, less humble, less faithful than those who kneel.