Why I reject fatima

[Elena321]

You know what? The more I think about it, the more I am suspicious that some apparitions, are actually binding us to some of the very things Jesus came to free us from. Maybe they didn’t at Fatima, and if the Church says it’s “worthy of belief” then let me hope the Lord has confused the words of so many who have taken these apparitions to behave in ways unlike what the Word says, and the confusion isn’t in the apparition itself. I might ask my wife for help understanding this because something seems seriously wrong. How can Jesus teach us one thing, and then His Mother come and gin us up to do just the opposite? I must be missing something here, that has not yet been brought up on this thread.

Are you able to elaborate on the binding and set free statement in your post please?

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Are you able to elaborate on the binding and set free statement in your post please?

Mindset of fear, for example. I’m not necessarily referring to the “binding and loosing.”

People were of fear because any wrong move and they went to hell.

Jesus came, I believe, to show us how to live in peace even though the world was in terrible shape. Jesus told us all of these things would happen, and not to be surprised.

But if we’re going back to a process whereby so many people become upset and fearful – and for that matter that they are personally responsible for changing the world in such a way that it no longer follows Jesus’s prophecy – then IMO we have not become “at peace” with Christ but “all worked up” about the very world which is doing nothing Jesus didn’t warn Him about.

Seriously, how many people who follow Fatima even know what Jesus said about the “end times” we are in? He speaks about it in three gospels…

Matt 24
3 As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and said, “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be of your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 Jesus said to them in reply, “See that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not alarmed, for these things must happen, but it will not yet be the end. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be famines and earthquakes from place to place. 8 All these are the beginning of the labor pains. 9 Then they will hand you over to persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of my name. 10 And then many will be led into sin; they will betray and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and deceive many; 12 and because of the increase of evildoing, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “When you see the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, 17 a person on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house, 18 a person in the field must not return to get his cloak. 19 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days. 20 Pray that your flight not be in winter or on the sabbath, 21 for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. 22 And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened. 23 If anyone says to you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told it to you beforehand. 26 So if they say to you, ‘He is in the desert,’ do not go out there; if they say, ‘He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

So why is any of this such a surprise? Are we supposed to reverse prophecy with a prayer discipline?

I’ll post more examples in the next posts…

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Mark 13
3 As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple area, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be when all these things are about to come to an end?” 5 Jesus began to say to them, “See that no one deceives you. 6 Many will come in my name saying, ‘I am he,’ and they will deceive many. **7 When you hear of wars and reports of wars do not be alarmed; such things must happen, but it will not yet be the end. **8 Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes from place to place and there will be famines. These are the beginnings of the labor pains.

The Coming Persecution. 9 “Watch out for yourselves. They will hand you over to the courts. You will be beaten in synagogues. You will be arraigned before governors and kings because of me, as a witness before them. 10 But the gospel must first be preached to all nations. 11 When they lead you away and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say. But say whatever will be given to you at that hour. For it will not be you who are speaking but the holy Spirit. 12 Brother will hand over brother to death, and the father his child; children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. 13 You will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

The Great Tribulation. 14 “When you see the desolating abomination standing[d] where he should not (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, 15 [and] a person on a housetop must not go down or enter to get anything out of his house, 16 and a person in a field must not return to get his cloak. 17 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days. 18 Pray that this does not happen in winter. 19 For those times will have tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of God’s creation until now, nor ever will be. 20 If the Lord had not shortened those days, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect whom he chose, he did shorten the days. 21 If anyone says to you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah! Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders in order to mislead, if that were possible, the elect. 23 Be watchful! I have told it all to you beforehand.

Again, none of this should be any surprise to a Christian, or in my opinion, a subject of anxiety for Christians.

Luke 21
1 When he looked up he saw some wealthy people putting their offerings into the treasury 2 and he noticed a poor widow putting in two small coins. 3 He said, “I tell you truly, this poor widow put in more than all the rest; 4 for those others have all made offerings from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has offered her whole livelihood.”

5 While some people were speaking about how the temple was adorned with costly stones and votive offerings, he said, 6 “All that you see here—the days will come when there will not be left a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down.”

7 Then they asked him, “Teacher, when will this happen? And what sign will there be when all these things are about to happen?” 8 He answered, “See that you not be deceived, for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and ‘The time has come.’ Do not follow them! 9 When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified; for such things must happen first, but it will not immediately be the end.” 10 Then he said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be powerful earthquakes, famines, and plagues from place to place; and awesome sights and mighty signs will come from the sky.

12 “Before all this happens, however, they will seize and persecute you, they will hand you over to the synagogues and to prisons, and they will have you led before kings and governors because of my name. 13 It will lead to your giving testimony. 14 Remember, you are not to prepare your defense beforehand, 15 for I myself shall give you a wisdom in speaking that all your adversaries will be powerless to resist or refute. 16 You will even be handed over by parents, brothers, relatives, and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17 You will be hated by all because of my name, 18 but not a hair on your head will be destroyed. 19 By your perseverance you will secure your lives.

The Great Tribulation. 20 “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, know that its desolation is at hand. 21 Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains. Let those within the city escape from it, and let those in the countryside not enter the city, 22 for these days are the time of punishment when all the scriptures are fulfilled. 23 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for a terrible calamity will come upon the earth and a wrathful judgment upon this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken as captives to all the Gentiles; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

 

[Memaw]

OK. I can give you that. I can look at it that way with you, and back you up that there is merit in it – without having to claim one way or other whether “your approach” in “your situation” is “better” or “worse” than I believe “mine is for me.”

Fair enough? :tiphat:Isn’t that what the Church means when it says “worthy of belief” but not “required” – so we can all be like :grouphug: ?

No, that is not what the Church means. The Church will never put any other revelation, private or otherwise, on the same level of Public Revelation. We are required to believe all Public Revelation under penalty of sin. Not so private revelation, we are not required by sin to believe it, that’s all it means. It does not mean to discourage us from believing in Fatima or it would NEVER name it “Worthy of Belief”, like I said before after a very through investigation!! Why some Catholics try to discourage others from believing in the Messages of Fatima I will never know. They just don’t understand it. Every Pope since Fatima has repeatedly taught and talked of Fatima, Some have been there. Saint Pope John Paul II ‘The Great’ Consecrated the world to Fatima, as have other Popes done repeatedly, even Pope Francis. Does that sound like we should ignore it or turn our back on Our Lady’s messages?? I hardly think so. The World Apostolate of Fatima is under the guidance of the Vatican and can be trusted to give the authentic story of Fatima. Don’t trust all sources, such as Fatima Crusade by Fr. Gruner. He is banned from saying Mass at Fatima. We should trust the Church and know it is WORTHY OF BELIEF !! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Path_Finder]

No, that is not what the Church means. The Church will never put any other revelation, private or otherwise, on the same level of Public Revelation. We are required to believe all Public Revelation under penalty of sin. Not so private revelation, we are not required by sin to believe it, that’s all it means. It does not mean to discourage us from believing in Fatima or it would NEVER name it “Worthy of Belief”, like I said before after a very through investigation!! Why some Catholics try to discourage others from believing in the Messages of Fatima I will never know. They just don’t understand it. Every Pope since Fatima has repeatedly taught and talked of Fatima, Some have been there. Saint Pope John Paul II ‘The Great’ Consecrated the world to Fatima, as have other Popes done repeatedly, even Pope Francis. Does that sound like we should ignore it or turn our back on Our Lady’s messages?? I hardly think so. The World Apostolate of Fatima is under the guidance of the Vatican and can be trusted to give the authentic story of Fatima. Don’t trust all sources, such as Fatima Crusade by Fr. Gruner. He is banned from saying Mass at Fatima. We should trust the Church and know it is WORTHY OF BELIEF !! God Bless, Memaw

And let’s not forget, Pope John Paul II, St. John Paul the great was assassinated on May 13th, 1981. A Fatima feast day. His life was thankfully saved. And didn’t they put the remnant of one of the bullets that penetrated him in Fatima? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II_assassination_attempt

Yes, you have a very good post. Thank you for this.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

No, that is not what the Church means. The Church will never put any other revelation, private or otherwise, on the same level of Public Revelation. We are required to believe all Public Revelation under penalty of sin. Not so private revelation, we are not required by sin to believe it, that’s all it means. It does not mean to discourage us from believing in Fatima or it would NEVER name it “Worthy of Belief”, like I said before after a very through investigation!! Why some Catholics try to discourage others from believing in the Messages of Fatima I will never know. They just don’t understand it. Every Pope since Fatima has repeatedly taught and talked of Fatima, Some have been there. Saint Pope John Paul II ‘The Great’ Consecrated the world to Fatima, as have other Popes done repeatedly, even Pope Francis. Does that sound like we should ignore it or turn our back on Our Lady’s messages?? I hardly think so. The World Apostolate of Fatima is under the guidance of the Vatican and can be trusted to give the authentic story of Fatima. Don’t trust all sources, such as Fatima Crusade by Fr. Gruner. He is banned from saying Mass at Fatima. We should trust the Church and know it is WORTHY OF BELIEF !! God Bless, Memaw

You be the part of the Body of Christ who does what you do, and I’ll do mine.

The reason we don’t get to the kingdom on the ‘wide path’ is that we each have to do what the Holy Spirit prompts us to individually.

When you come to me with infallibly declared teachings of the Church, and clear references that apply to any given situation unambiguously by all apologists, popes, and saints, and I don’t agree with them, then we can have a discussion about whether I think I’m smarter than the Church. If the Church teaches that I must believe in all the hype I hear about Fatima, including an IMO unhealthy focus on sin and hell, then I guess I shall be in sin.

But I don’t believe she does “require” me to believe anything about Fatima, and it seems to me that most Catholics who try to convince me into radical following of Fatima, either do a pretty poor job of separating fact from opinion. Not saying you specifically, but if the shoe fits …

MS

 

[Path_Finder]

You be the part of the Body of Christ who does what you do, and I’ll do mine.

The reason we don’t get to the kingdom on the ‘wide path’ is that we each have to do what the Holy Spirit prompts us to individually.

When you come to me with infallibly declared teachings of the Church, and clear references that apply to any given situation unambiguously by all apologists, popes, and saints, and I don’t agree with them, then we can have a discussion about whether I think I’m smarter than the Church. If the Church teaches that I must believe in all the** hype** I hear about Fatima, including an IMO unhealthy focus on sin and hell, then I guess I shall be in sin.

But I don’t believe she does “require” me to believe anything about Fatima, and it seems to me that most Catholics who try to convince me into radical following of Fatima, either do a pretty poor job of separating fact from opinion. Not saying you specifically, but if the shoe fits …

MS

Again, saying “hype” about Fatima strikes me as very irreverent.

And I don’t think the question was ever answered, not saying you said it but as to proof that “real Catholics” seem to say one must follow Fatima, I never saw any proof of this.

 

[Path_Finder]

Fatima may have a following? Does one know why some may feel inclined to defend it?? It was mentioned in this thread and tip of the hat to whomever did it.

The Brown Scapular, now are the Fatima skeptics aware of this relationship?

Or how about the 5 First Saturdays devotion??

Or how about the ALL-NIGHT VIGILS (sponsored usually by the Blue Army/World Apostolate of Fatima), one goes to a Catholic Church, says Rosaries, Chaplets of Divine Mercy, Stations of the Cross, Mass, 2 I think if you stay all night, it’s a real big deal with snack breaks, talk to others there, one is in the Catholic Church all-night, from maybe 7 or 8 pm Friday night until 6 am Saturday morning. Marian Hymns.

It’s really a magnificent spiritual exercise.

Perhaps others can chime in because so far, this thread has mainly spoken about what happened on October 13th, 1917 but there is much to all of this.

In fact, at one point during the all-night services, the statue of Our Lady of Fatima is carried in a procession from 4 men, an honor to do. It’s all great stuff.

Oh, and of course, Confession, Reconciliation, that is very important.

https://theotokosbooks.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/fatima-pic.jpg
http://drbo.org/img/Sicutincaelo/Ad2.jpg

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Again, saying “hype” about Fatima strikes me as very irreverent.

And I don’t think the question was ever answered, not saying you said it but as to proof that “real Catholics” seem to say one must follow Fatima, I never saw any proof of this.

I stand by the word “hype.” I have been a “victim” of these people. Maybe you aren’t one of “them” who conveys this feeling to the likes of me; maybe you are.

I don’t know what’s hype and what’s not about Fatima, and I don’t care unless it’s important enough my wife tells me. It seems like about half of what passes on these forums for Catholic teachings are either incomplete to address any given situation under discussion, or are just plain wrong. So I save my effort when I can, to delve into things where I have something to go on and not just fourth-hand accounts of a vision.

If you’ve never been the target of condescending attitudes about not doing the “Catholic stuff” right or saying the Rosary enough or not praying at abortion clinics or God knows what else, then you’re either lucky, or maybe … might you be one of them and not even realize it?

But if you can’t see what I’m talking about on this thread – of “maybe not all” of the Fatima supporters consider anyone who isn’t as interested as somehow missing out, then you can’t see or feel what I see or feel. My advice is to do something the CCC says we SHOULD do, but most Catholics I know never ever heard of it – contemplative prayer. The CCC does NOT say we should adhere our practices to Fatima, but it DOES say we SHOULD have a prayer life that involves contemplative prayer. Why isn’t this mainstream Catholicism – things that could actually change our hearts for the better rather than scaring us, and the CCC says we “should” do? I blame the Church structure for not “getting the message out” though, not individuals, because they simply aren’t told about things that end up – challenging the Church structure.

MS

 

[Memaw]

I stand by the word “hype.” I have been a “victim” of these people. Maybe you aren’t one of “them” who conveys this feeling to the likes of me; maybe you are.

I don’t know what’s hype and what’s not about Fatima, and I don’t care unless it’s important enough my wife tells me. It seems like about half of what passes on these forums for Catholic teachings are either incomplete to address any given situation under discussion, or are just plain wrong. So I save my effort when I can, to delve into things where I have something to go on and not just fourth-hand accounts of a vision.

If you’ve never been the target of condescending attitudes about not doing the “Catholic stuff” right or saying the Rosary enough or not praying at abortion clinics or God knows what else, then you’re either lucky, or maybe … might you be one of them and not even realize it?

But if you can’t see what I’m talking about on this thread – of “maybe not all” of the Fatima supporters consider anyone who isn’t as interested as somehow missing out, then you can’t see or feel what I see or feel. My advice is to do something the CCC says we SHOULD do, but most Catholics I know never ever heard of it – contemplative prayer. The CCC does NOT say we should adhere our practices to Fatima, but it DOES say we SHOULD have a prayer life that involves contemplative prayer. Why isn’t this mainstream Catholicism – things that could actually change our hearts for the better rather than scaring us, and the CCC says we “should” do? I blame the Church structure for not “getting the message out” though, not individuals, because they simply aren’t told about things that end up – challenging the Church structure.

MS

I don’t believe we are supposed to "challenge the “Catholic Structure”. I believe the Catholic Structure, as you call it, (the teaching Magisterium) the teaching authority of the Church is meant to challenge us into a stronger, livelier, holier Faith. If being ‘scared’ bothers you, count how many times Jesus spoke of Hell in the Gospels !! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

I don’t believe we are supposed to "challenge the “Catholic Structure”. I believe the Catholic Structure, as you call it, (the teaching Magisterium) the teaching authority of the Church is meant to challenge us into a stronger, livelier, holier Faith. If being ‘scared’ bothers you, count how many times Jesus spoke of Hell in the Gospels !! God Bless, Memaw

I’m not talking about the teaching Magisterium.

I’m talking about the way the Church goes about things. Kind of like Pope Francis. He isn’t changing Church teachings, but he’s essentially “turning over the tables” of the way things have been done. To him, the Church has become a bloated palace for a kingly class; he’s going in there and changing things. That’s what I mean by challenging the “structure.” I’m not challenging the “substance” except those who claim that one Optional Devotion is somehow superior to another.

For example, his emphasis on mercy and poor, rather than moralistic political activism, as a focus of our Catholic lives. And his famous welcome speech in plain white robes, rather than the usual fancy garb. And investigating some of the most corrupt banking in the world – the Vatican’s own bank – and prosecuting those bishops and cardinals in charge of it.

I choose to do my part in “changing things” from the trenches, and that means for one I’m no longer going to be intimidated or silenced at some meeting because a person looks at me with their eyes all wide and tells me stuff about Fatima and how that factors into anything we do – in comparison, for example, to following the teachings of Jesus. People are welcome to believe in Fatima – but from now on, if they don’t quit telling me I’m wrong for not believing in it, I just may not sit there and “take it” anymore. Touting one’s devotions as superior to others’, is Catholic snobbery, and I’m calling it out where I see it. Not even just plain vanilla “Catholic” snobbery, but “I’m more Catholic than you are” snobbery.

If you have never seen it, then you are lucky and/or you are dishing it out.

MS

 

[Path_Finder]

**I have no use for apparitions, especially when they advance political action – or at least people become politically active and claim it’s because Mary wants us to.
**
The last thing Mary said, as far as I’m concerned, that’s binding on me, is “do what He says.” And He never said to believe in a bunch of other people’s visions about His mother advocating political action.

And plus I don’t hear anything coming out of it that is transformational in the way that I believe Jesus most wanted us transformed. Our treasure in the things of the kingdom; not in our efforts to control worldly powers. And certainly getting people all ginned up about world events is contrary to what Jesus said; that is these things will happen and they will get worse, but that we should be at peace – not “we will not rest until things are right.”

Correct me if I’m wrong; and there is nothing in the content in any “approved” apparition that calls us to go to Caesar to do the work of God.

Who exactly are you accusing of “politics”, this is another broad generalization.

 

[Path_Finder]

I stand by the word “hype.” I have been a “victim” of these people. Maybe you aren’t one of “them” who conveys this feeling to the likes of me; maybe you are.

I don’t know what’s hype and what’s not about Fatima, and I don’t care unless it’s important enough my wife tells me. It seems like about half of what passes on these forums for Catholic teachings are either incomplete to address any given situation under discussion, or are just plain wrong. So I save my effort when I can, to delve into things where I have something to go on and not just fourth-hand accounts of a vision.

If you’ve never been the target of condescending attitudes about not doing the “Catholic stuff” right or saying the Rosary enough or not praying at abortion clinics or God knows what else, then you’re either lucky, or maybe … might you be one of them and not even realize it?

But if you can’t see what I’m talking about on this thread – of “maybe not all” of the Fatima supporters consider anyone who isn’t as interested as somehow missing out, then you can’t see or feel what I see or feel. My advice is to do something the CCC says we SHOULD do, but most Catholics I know never ever heard of it – contemplative prayer. The CCC does NOT say we should adhere our practices to Fatima, but it DOES say we SHOULD have a prayer life that involves contemplative prayer. Why isn’t this mainstream Catholicism – things that could actually change our hearts for the better rather than scaring us, and the CCC says we “should” do? I blame the Church structure for not “getting the message out” though, not individuals, because they simply aren’t told about things that end up – challenging the Church structure.

MS

You give no examples at all, just some general negative descriptions given out, as far as I’m concerned it can be made up. None of those listing cons against Fatima give specific examples.

 

[Path_Finder]

Mindset of fear, for example. I’m not necessarily referring to the “binding and loosing.”

People were of fear because any wrong move and they went to hell.

Jesus came, I believe, to show us how to live in peace even though the world was in terrible shape. Jesus told us all of these things would happen, and not to be surprised.

But if we’re going back to a process whereby so many people become upset and fearful – and for that matter that they are personally responsible for changing the world in such a way that it no longer follows Jesus’s prophecy – then IMO we have not become “at peace” with Christ but “all worked up” about the very world which is doing nothing Jesus didn’t warn Him about.

Seriously, how many people who follow Fatima even know what Jesus said about the “end times” we are in? He speaks about it in three gospels…

Matt 24
3 As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and said, “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be of your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 Jesus said to them in reply, “See that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not alarmed, for these things must happen, but it will not yet be the end. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be famines and earthquakes from place to place. 8 All these are the beginning of the labor pains. 9 Then they will hand you over to persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of my name. 10 And then many will be led into sin; they will betray and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and deceive many; 12 and because of the increase of evildoing, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “When you see the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, 17 a person on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house, 18 a person in the field must not return to get his cloak. 19 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days. 20 Pray that your flight not be in winter or on the sabbath, 21 for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. 22 And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened. 23 If anyone says to you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told it to you beforehand. 26 So if they say to you, ‘He is in the desert,’ do not go out there; if they say, ‘He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

So why is any of this such a surprise? Are we supposed to reverse prophecy with a prayer discipline?

I’ll post more examples in the next posts…

Again, your projections, saying others have fear and again, no specific examples to back this up.

If I want to interpret the Bible wholly by myself, there are plenty of protestant religions.

Again, your questions can be rephrased, “why pray at all”.

 

[Path_Finder]

Mark 13
3 As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple area, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be when all these things are about to come to an end?” 5 Jesus began to say to them, “See that no one deceives you. 6 Many will come in my name saying, ‘I am he,’ and they will deceive many. **7 When you hear of wars and reports of wars do not be alarmed; such things must happen, but it will not yet be the end. **8 Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes from place to place and there will be famines. These are the beginnings of the labor pains.

The Coming Persecution. 9 “Watch out for yourselves. They will hand you over to the courts. You will be beaten in synagogues. You will be arraigned before governors and kings because of me, as a witness before them. 10 But the gospel must first be preached to all nations. 11 When they lead you away and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say. But say whatever will be given to you at that hour. For it will not be you who are speaking but the holy Spirit. 12 Brother will hand over brother to death, and the father his child; children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. 13 You will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

The Great Tribulation. 14 “When you see the desolating abomination standing[d] where he should not (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, 15 [and] a person on a housetop must not go down or enter to get anything out of his house, 16 and a person in a field must not return to get his cloak. 17 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days. 18 Pray that this does not happen in winter. 19 For those times will have tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of God’s creation until now, nor ever will be. 20 If the Lord had not shortened those days, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect whom he chose, he did shorten the days. 21 If anyone says to you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah! Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders in order to mislead, if that were possible, the elect. 23 Be watchful! I have told it all to you beforehand.

Again, none of this should be any surprise to a Christian, or in my opinion, a subject of anxiety for Christians.

Luke 21
1 When he looked up he saw some wealthy people putting their offerings into the treasury 2 and he noticed a poor widow putting in two small coins. 3 He said, “I tell you truly, this poor widow put in more than all the rest; 4 for those others have all made offerings from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has offered her whole livelihood.”

5 While some people were speaking about how the temple was adorned with costly stones and votive offerings, he said, 6 “All that you see here—the days will come when there will not be left a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down.”

7 Then they asked him, “Teacher, when will this happen? And what sign will there be when all these things are about to happen?” 8 He answered, “See that you not be deceived, for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and ‘The time has come.’ Do not follow them! 9 When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified; for such things must happen first, but it will not immediately be the end.” 10 Then he said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be powerful earthquakes, famines, and plagues from place to place; and awesome sights and mighty signs will come from the sky.

12 “Before all this happens, however, they will seize and persecute you, they will hand you over to the synagogues and to prisons, and they will have you led before kings and governors because of my name. 13 It will lead to your giving testimony. 14 Remember, you are not to prepare your defense beforehand, 15 for I myself shall give you a wisdom in speaking that all your adversaries will be powerless to resist or refute. 16 You will even be handed over by parents, brothers, relatives, and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17 You will be hated by all because of my name, 18 but not a hair on your head will be destroyed. 19 By your perseverance you will secure your lives.

The Great Tribulation. 20 “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, know that its desolation is at hand. 21 Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains. Let those within the city escape from it, and let those in the countryside not enter the city, 22 for these days are the time of punishment when all the scriptures are fulfilled. 23 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for a terrible calamity will come upon the earth and a wrathful judgment upon this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken as captives to all the Gentiles; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

So are you saying that approving Fatima means the Church sought to deceive people?

 

[EasterBeagle]

Talk on Fatima by John Haffert, founder of the Blue Army of Fatima:
youtube.com/watch?v=LUeDpQSxuCE&list=UUpXAhFNtbVMhQ82Qgp0aV-w

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

So are you saying that approving Fatima means the Church sought to deceive people?

No, I’m saying that we should neither be surprised nor anxious that terrible things happen, because a) Jesus told us they would happen, and b) Jesus told us not to be surprised or anxious.

If you think that we can make them not happen through a prayer regimen, then your prayers are stronger than Jesus’s prophecy. But I have no opinion on that because I do not believe my prayers will reverse Jesus’s prophecy.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

If I want to interpret the Bible wholly by myself, there are plenty of protestant religions.

Now you are saying that Fatima is in the Bible?

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Who exactly are you accusing of “politics”, this is another broad generalization.

You give no examples at all, just some general negative descriptions given out, as far as I’m concerned it can be made up. None of those listing cons against Fatima give specific examples.

You may be right.

 

[Path_Finder]

Now you are saying that Fatima is in the Bible?

The Church Christ founded said Fatima is worthy of belief.

Jesus Christ did not found a book, He never wrote a thing, He founded a Church.

Also, if Fatima is true, it is a modern-day post-Biblical times manifestation of the power of God.

If the Miracle of the Sun is true, it means God thought it was important enough to do a divine work years removed from parting the Red Sea.