Why I rejected Sola Fide

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This thread has been pruned of several off-topic posts not related to Sola Fide. Further such posts will result in citations being issued and/or thread closure.
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James focuses on “genuuine” faith. Catholics miss the mark here. I can attened a Catholic mass, receive the sacraments, and be “good” by doing my good works, and at the end of the day, sexually abuse a child. I’ll get up the next day, and receive my grace all over again by following the rituals over again in order to receive my grace, but my heart is not with God - as this Scripture explains:

You should be able to see that your inerpretation of James is in error if you believe that the sacraments, instead of your heart condition, saves you. Catholics are in a perpetual mode of constantly trying to earn grace because they keep “loosing” it, and therefore cannot develop as healthy, and robust relationship with God as they otherwise might.
mepatri:

The first paragraph shows not only a complete misunderstanding of the Catholic Doctrine, but a disdain for the Catholics on this board. The insinuation that the Catholics here would tolerate child molestosters because they “followed the rituals” is beyond abhorent and wouldn’t be tolerated for a second by you or any other protestant if any Catholic here had the audacity to say that any of the many scandals of the protestant preachers had been tolerated for any reason whatsoever.

I think you owe your brothers and sisters here an apology for this uncharitable behavior.

For the forgivenss of sin, our Lord and His Church has always required that we have a “Firm Purpose of Amendment”, or what many of us have called “True Repentence”. In the case of a child molester, that would mean that he would turn himself over to the proper authorities as well as try to make amends to any one he has harmed. I understand that this is pretty much what Cardinal Pell in Australia has done by hiring a team of retired prosecutors and police detectives to investigate claims of molestation and sexual assualt/abuse in his archdiocese and turning over all of those records, and whatever else they could find, to the states’ prosecutors’ offices.

Here is where you demonstrate the need for a Tradition that shows what the Church has taught on a whole list of subjects and a Teaching Authority that has the ability to Decisively and authoritatively teach on Certain subjects as they come up now.

Your way of using the Scripture as the only source of Divine Revelation has resulted in no less than 31,000 different denominations, almost all of whom disagree with the “Reformers” who actually believed in the efficacy of the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, The Holy Eucharist, Confession and the Anointing of the Sick.

Meanwhile, the Catholic Church’s way of using Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition, interpreted by the Magisterium or Teaching Authority which is continuing given the gift of Teaching, Prophecy and Infallibillty on matters of Faith and Morals only (which means that God uses fallible men to teach His word to each generation) has produced a Church that is ONE, that has Martyrs who willingly suffer and die for the faith.

Jesus prayed to His Father that we would all be one in Him. Which one do you think produces the result He asked for?

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
This is confusing, since the belief you give above is the Protestant view of salvation - not the Roman Catholic view. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that you are saved by way of a faith combined with works salvation. Roman Catholics believe that if you do not combine your faith with works, you are lost. You say you reject Sola Fide, and yet you make a statment that you embrace it. Very confusing.
No, mepatri, it is Catholic. It is not what you were TAUGHT about Catholicism, is all. Catholicism teaches that we are saved by grace, through faith, not of works. There is nothing we can do to merit salvation. Where did you learn about the Catholic faith? In a way, I am glad you are confused, because maybe you will realize what you have been taught about the faith is not true.

t
The view you describe is the exact opposite of the legalism of the Roman Catholic Church. Actually, both Protestants and Catholics want the same thing - they just go about it differently. They both want to please God - Protestants by accepting Christ and following as close as possible the Scriptures, and Catholics who want to please God by works and observing the Sacrements.
Catholicism does not teach legalism. I am beginning to wonder where you learned about he Catholic faith? You are right, Catholics are interested in pleasing God, but without faith, it is impossible to please Him. Any “works” that are not proceeding from faith will not be pleasing to Him. He is pleased when we accomplish the works which he predestined for us, and for which he saved us. Observing the sacraments is a form of obedience, but they are the channels of God’s grace to us, and help to maintain us in holiness, so that we can serve Him as He intended.
I do however think you’re a Protestant without realizing it.
Perhaps you are a Catholic without knowing it?😃
 
To my Protestant Brothers:

The Bible refers to part of the armament of Believer in Christ as “The Sword of the Spirit, The Word of God” (Eph. 6:17). When we limit the Word of God to the Bible, we limit that sword to ONE EDGE. For a sword to be fully effective, we all know know that it requires TWO SHARP EDGES. In this case, those edges are Scripture and Tradition.

Tradition includes the Canons of the Councils, the writing of the Church Fathers, and the saying of Holy Men who have spent their lives evangelizing, forming communities and battling the Devil. It is that Tradition that gives us the Teaching on how Christ could be God and Man at the same time and how Mary could be the “Mother of God” (What most Eastern Christians call her). It is Tradition that takes the prayer said by the publican and makes it our own, and Tradition that causes the Church to impliment, “In those matters essential to the faith, Unity: in those that aren’t, Liberty; and in all, Charity.”

To fight the devil, we need a two edged sword, not one with only one edge.

Have a blessed Holy Week and a Happy Easter celebrating the Resurrection of Him who was, who is and who is to come.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
I’ll regulate my comments (Edited by moderator) with the utmost respect.

(Edited by moderator)

(Edited by moderator) Second, this is supposed to be an “apologetics” forum, and as such the people on the threads need to have a little thicker skin if they really want to talk about issues of faith. You can’t have an apologetics forum if all you’re going to talk about is how good you all feel about what all of you agree on in the first place. Apologetics won’t happen that way.

If you think you can talk about apologetics and not have others give you information that you might have to think about that’s not “catholic”, think again. It’s necessary to advocate, examine, and even hear contending points of view when discussing apologetic issues. Unfortunately, it’s very difficult to not offend considering the topics that are discussed. (Edited by moderator) If you’re not strong enough in your faith to discuss these issues, I respectfully suggest that you rethink arguing apologetics. You’'ll just get hammered by those who are ready to defend their non-catholic views.

(Edited by moderator) All I can say is that the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword, so if you can’t stand up to the critisism, don’t participate in any forums outside of catholic.com

God Bless…
 
(sorry for posting again, but I had to answer this. If any of you were offended by my comments - you have my apologies)

Posted by Traditional ANG
Originally Posted by mepatri
James focuses on “genuuine” faith. Catholics miss the mark here. I can attened a Catholic mass, receive the sacraments, and be “good” by doing my good works, and at the end of the day, sexually abuse a child. I’ll get up the next day, and receive my grace all over again by following the rituals over again in order to receive my grace, but my heart is not with God - as this Scripture explains:
You should be able to see that your inerpretation of James is in error if you believe that the sacraments, instead of your heart condition, saves you. Catholics are in a perpetual mode of constantly trying to earn grace because they keep “loosing” it, and therefore cannot develop as healthy, and robust relationship with God as they otherwise might.
The first paragraph shows not only a complete misunderstanding of the Catholic Doctrine, but a disdain for the Catholics on this board. The insinuation that the Catholics here would tolerate child molestosters because they “followed the rituals” is beyond abhorent and wouldn’t be tolerated for a second by you or any other protestant if any Catholic here had the audacity to say that any of the many scandals of the protestant preachers had been tolerated for any reason whatsoever.
I think you owe your brothers and sisters here an apology for this uncharitable behavior.
I don’t disdain Catholics, and if you’re offended, it might be because a sore spot was touched. Catholics bring this kind of thin upon themselves, because they continue to follow an institution that has become corrupt. I’m not saying that any of you here would do such a thing, but I am saying that by continuing to commit to the church if the face of these atrocities is unbelievable. Your commitment to follow, and financially fund the church enables it to continue.

I’m sorry if I offended you. It wasn’t intentional. I was just trying to point out that fanning and feeding the fire will not stop the pain.

The comments on ritual were just pointing out that it is ritual that makes us feel better about ourselves. We somehow “fix” the problem with corporate participation in a service that puts a band-aid on the whole thing. Turning to God is the only answer.
 
Originally posted by: Traditional Ang
To my Protestant Brothers:
The Bible refers to part of the armament of Believer in Christ as “The Sword of the Spirit, The Word of God” (Eph. 6:17). When we limit the Word of God to the Bible, we limit that sword to ONE EDGE. For a sword to be fully effective, we all know know that it requires TWO SHARP EDGES. In this case, those edges are Scripture and Tradition.
Well said - but your “two edged sword” evidently doesn’t exist here. My comments are being edited to give voice to only one side of that sword.
To fight the devil, we need a two edged sword, not one with only one edge.
I agree. But your Censor doesn’t seem to.

Now I know how Luther and Copernicus must have felt.

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,816373,00.html
Have a blessed Holy Week and a Happy Easter celebrating the Resurrection of Him who was, who is and who is to come.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
You also my friend.
 
Mepatri,

At no time did I call you ignorant. I was quoting from the book of James regarding faith and works, and did not direct it at you personally.
Secondly, I apologized for any uncharitable tone that I may have had towards you (post 55).
If you cannot accept that, then perhaps we’re not the ones who are thin-skinnined.
 
All I can say is that the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword, so if you can’t stand up to the critisism, don’t participate in any forums outside of catholic.com
Yes, and we Catholics have the whole Word of God, and rightly divided, to boot.

Jeremy
 
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