Why I rejected Sola Scriptura

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That interpretation, however, is self-destructive: it undermines the doctrine of free will (you do hold this doctrine, I hope?). It undermines the fact that man can reject God. What is sin if not rejection of God’s graces?
 
Catholic4aReasn said:
*I think you may be misunderstanding something here. No one claims that the bishops are, themselves, apostles but rather that they teach with their authority. Apostolic succession, or teaching with the authority of the apostles, is indeed in scripture.*It is indeed not in Scripture. You cannot claim the authority of the office but not its reality. Apostolic knowledge regarding the faith was passed down, but not Aposotlic authority. Tim. 2:2 is not teaching the succession of Apostolic authority, but the passing on of knowledge. This Paul did in ALL the churches he founded. That was his job as an Apostle, especially Paul.
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Kinsman:
It is indeed not in Scripture. You cannot claim the authority of the office but not its reality. Apostolic knowledge regarding the faith was passed down, but not Aposotlic authority. Tim. 2:2 is not teaching the succession of Apostolic authority, but the passing on of knowledge. This Paul did in ALL the churches he founded. That was his job as an Apostle, especially Paul.

are you kidding me? so explain this, why is this necessary? Acts 1
21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."
23So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Another thing, when they are commanded to “preach” to all nations, they did this without a bible and had to be the authority given in most far reaching nations (like India which had already been evangelized and churches started) there would be no way to appeal to scriptures thus they had to appeal to Oral Tradition and the Church as the authority (just as authoritative as the bible, but not exclusively)

This whole argument is without foundation, if this is the case that it is scripture alone, show me who followed this for 1500 years before Luther? Did the Holy Spirit just come upon Luther and was sleeping for all those centuries? The Jews did not subscribe to scripture alone so where did this idea start…of course we know that idea unless you can prove otherwise.

Here’s another question, how do you know the authenticity of the bible and it’s inspiration? Is it because it says so? How do you know it’s text is accurate and untampered? How do you know since we have no original transcripts, except copies on copies on copies? Specific questions, please, someone answer them.
 
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BobCatholic:
Yes, it is a good question.

If it is only an invisible body, then nobody will find it. One can never join the Church for one can’t see it.

It has to be VISIBLE, a LIGHT TO THE WORLD, so it has to be both mystical and corporeal - it is the Body of Christ, and Christ didn’t have an invisible body when He walked the earth.

One visible method is to see if they hold to the same interpretation of scripture the Apostles did. Since they’re dead, there has to be a way to determine it.

Remember what I said about Scripture and the Apostolic Interpretation of Scripture?

According to Sola Scripturists, the latter was lost. So if this was lost, then nobody can hold on to this, and the gates of Hell have prevailed.
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And that is why we walk by faith and not by sight.I prefer to walk in the spirit. I dont see it with my eyes but I know its there.Do I have to join a church to see Christ? :confused:
 
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SPOKENWORD:
And that is why we walk by faith and not by sight.I prefer to walk in the spirit. I dont see it with my eyes but I know its there.Do I have to join a church to see Christ? :confused:
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How do you know Christ ever existed? I assume you would say the Bible…then how do you know the Bible is not a fiction? right, obviously you need the Church more than you know.
 
Dear SPOKENWORD:

You said:
And that is why we walk by faith and not by sight.I prefer to walk in the spirit. I dont see it with my eyes but I know its there.Do I have to join a church to see Christ
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I don’t think you have “to join a church” to see Christ, but you at least have to recognize the church. How else would you satisfy Christ’s command in Matthew 18:15-18 that we mitigate our disputes with our neighbor through the Church. If a person believes in an invisible church, i.e., that all “true believers” (specifically independent, bible-based believers) are the true church, then do you first establish for yourself your own unique papacy to judge who is a true believer and who isn’t, and then relegate the power you’ve endowed yourself with to make such judgments to those who agree with you?? That’s quite an interesting spiritual life you create for yourself…

In Jesus and Mary
Fiat
 
go Leafs go:
How do you know Christ ever existed? I assume you would say the Bible…then how do you know the Bible is not a fiction? right, obviously you need the Church more than you know.
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Even the rocks know that Christ exists. It say the rocks will cry out if we dont. :confused:
 
go Leafs go:
not a valid answer
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You underestimate the power of God.God will reveal himself to us by His Spirit. Im sorry you didnt like my answer. 😦
 
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SPOKENWORD:
And that is why we walk by faith and not by sight.I prefer to walk in the spirit. I dont see it with my eyes but I know its there.Do I have to join a church to see Christ? :confused:
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The thing is: that there are elements of faith and elements of rational thinking in the Christian faith.

We don’t go by rationality alone, nor do we go by blind faith. We put the two together to figure things out.

Now, do you have to “join a church” to see Christ? Christ said you have to join his Sheepfold. How do you know you’re in it?

One way is seeing if the church is holding to Apostolic Teachings.
 
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BobCatholic:
The thing is: that there are elements of faith and elements of rational thinking in the Christian faith.

We don’t go by rationality alone, nor do we go by blind faith. We put the two together to figure things out.

Now, do you have to “join a church” to see Christ? Christ said you have to join his Sheepfold. How do you know you’re in it?

One way is seeing if the church is holding to Apostolic Teachings.
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I know im in His sheepfold because I was once lost and now I am found.I feel and sense His presence. I know He has me wraped around His shoulders. I feel His peace and His love. I know that I know that I belong to His fold. 👍
 
Dear SPOKEN WORD:
You stated:
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SPOKENWORD:
I know im in His sheepfold because I was once lost and now I am found.I feel and sense His presence. I know He has me wraped around His shoulders. I feel His peace and His love. I know that I know that I belong to His fold. 👍
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You’re logic and faith appear to be quite in line with Mormonism…You just wait for that “burning in the bosom” to know you’re right. I guess I just don’t understand the logic behind that approach, and I thank God that through His Holy Catholic Church, God has revealed more rational and objective standards for determining truth that are intertwined with Faith. Your approach to belief tends to relativize everything and everyone so that a Hindu is no different from a Buddhist, who is no different from a Muslim who is no different from a Jew, etc., etc., because as long as they get that “sense” and feel “his presence,” then all is well…

In Jesus and Mary
Fiat
 
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SPOKENWORD:
I know im in His sheepfold because I was once lost and now I am found.I feel and sense His presence. I know He has me wraped around His shoulders. I feel His peace and His love. I know that I know that I belong to His fold. 👍
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Is “the fold” that you refer to the church of Matt 16:18? If so, is it acceptable for there to be conflicting and contradictory beliefs all taught as “truth” in this fold? If not, what do you mean by “fold”? Thanks!
 
go Leafs go:
are you kidding me? so explain this, why is this necessary? Acts 1
21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."
23So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.
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Matthias was chosen to REPLACE Judas to bring the number back to 12. This is not Apostolic “succession” but replacement. The qualifications Peter mentions actually prohibits any succession of the Apostolic office. Please read my post #354
Another thing, when they are commanded to “preach” to all nations, they did this without a bible and had to be the authority given in most far reaching nations
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They were Apostles. They had the authority to teach and preach this new divine revelation regarding Jesus Christ. That’s why an Apostle had to be there from the beginning of Christ’s earthly ministry. They were eyewitnesses and taught directly by Christ! Scripture followed. See my post #348.
Here’s another question, how do you know the authenticity of the bible and it’s inspiration? Is it because it says so? How do you know it’s text is accurate and untampered? How do you know since we have no original transcripts, except copies on copies on copies? Specific questions, please, someone answer them.
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It specficially states it (2 Tim. 3:16-17). We know it’s accurate because we have literally thousands of copies to compare. There’s no higher authority on earth than God’s written Word.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
I know im in His sheepfold because I was once lost and now I am found.I feel and sense His presence. I know He has me wraped around His shoulders. I feel His peace and His love. I know that I know that I belong to His fold. 👍
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Would you agree that personal feelings aren’t always an accurate measure of absolute truth?
 
Catholic4aReasn said:
Would you agree that personal feelings aren’t always an accurate measure of absolute truth?
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I would agree that feelings can be deceptive. 👍
 
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SPOKENWORD:
I would agree that feelings can be deceptive. 👍
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I agree Senior Member SPOKENWORD. I’m curious, then, why you would base your assurance that you are truly in Christ’s fold on your personal feelings. Is there anything more objective on which you can base your belief?
Please note I’m not suggesting that you are not in Christ’s fold, just trying to understand why you said what you said.
 
Catholic4aReasn said:
I agree Senior Member SPOKENWORD. I’m curious, then, why you would base your assurance that you are truly in Christ’s fold on your personal feelings. Is there anything more objective on which you can base your belief?
Please note I’m not suggesting that you are not in Christ’s fold, just trying to understand why you said what you said.
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You see I know I belong to the fold because Jesus has drawn me in.Jesus has opened the gate. I now can come in through Him. I hear His voice and He calls me by name.There is one flock and one sheperd and his name is Jesus Christ. Praise God!! 👍
 
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SPOKENWORD:
I know im in His sheepfold because I was once lost and now I am found.I feel and sense His presence. I know He has me wraped around His shoulders. I feel His peace and His love. I know that I know that I belong to His fold. 👍
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Cool!

Now, how do you know you hold to the exact same interpretation of scripture that the Apostles held? After all, according to Sola Scriptura, the Apostolic interpretation of Scripture was lost.
 
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