Why I'm Almost Convinced Catholosism is Wrong:

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I see only a creed-limited attempt at “critical thinking” on the part of our intellectual friend. As indistinct as it may be, it remains a creed, and limits critical thinking according to its degree of nebulosity.

OK, so start a thread in Philosophy, will ya’?
 
Think_About_It said:
Blurry photos represent blurry evidence, and every religion has 'em… There are higher quality videos of india’s idol Ganesh drinking milk; that doesn’t mean there aren’t natural explanations to explain hoaxes, misunderstandings, and hysteria…
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Om… How were those photos blury? What about the 600 eye witnesses on one event, and about 1,000 on the other? By the way, there’s a difference between a religion being true, and it beig the true religion. It’s really annoying when you present something and atheists are like “well, look at what this religion pulled out.” I don’t really care. 🤷 Christians believe in demons. 😛
 
MrZetterlund said:
I really admire the Catholic faith and unity, however, I must get answers to these objecctions before I could ever “swim the Tiber,” (I think is what it’s called.) 🤷

1: Most Catholics believe that the Pope in inherent and is the succesor of Peter. But Peter certainly wasn’t inherent. He denied Christ three times…
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Hello =)

The office of Pope does not make on free from sin nor does one have to be sinless. Peter had all the qualities for a Pope. He sinned but he also confessed and after was given his mission to tend to the Church and be Christs vicar on earth. Dont confuse the Popes infallibility with impeccability.

This was now the third time Jesus was revealed to his disciples after being raised from the dead. When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He then said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.”
He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep. -John Chapter 21:14-15
MrZetterlund said:
2: Catholics see Baptism as a promise that a child will be raised in the faith. But in the Bible it’s a public confession of faith…
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Baptism is an entrance into the new covenant that Christ has established. It has replaced circumcision, and is open to infants and adults alike. I find it hard to accept that the same God who required children to be circumcised as a sign to be memebrs of His covenant would have a problem with children being baptized. Especially when Jesus Himself was circumcised as an infant. If we are parents we have a duty to raise our child in the teachings of Jesus. No loving parent would keep their child away from baptism which frees us from original sin and allows us to recieve many graces from God. It is also hard to fathom an all loving God who would not want these little ones to be baptised.

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."Matthew 19:14
MrZetterlund said:
3: Catholics kiss the toe of a statue of Peter, don’t they? And pray to Mary, and kiss the Pope’s ring, ect. How can this not be viewed as idolatry?
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Kissing the Popes ring and the toe of a statue is a sign of vereration not worship. It is also a sign of respect for the individual or their memory. It is no different than kissing your mother on the cheek, or a picture of her. We would not be wise in saying that this is idolatry. Further more the prayers to mary and the saints are ways of us asking for them to pray for us. These people are not dead but alive in christ and the prayers of these people can do nothing but benefits us. I will explain further later. Right now i have to leave.

God bless =)
 
Well alright, I’m sold on Catholic’s beliefs now. Great job guys. 👍
 
Think_About_It said:
Catholics have similar (maybe better) attacks against protestantism. I wouldn’t rule out the fact that both creeds are wrong 🙂
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If it’s any concelation, I now agree with them. The objection to the Pope and idolatry was a mis-understanding. The only one I didn’t agree with was infant Baptism. Which someone pointed out, circumcision is to be brought into a covenant with God just as Baptism is.
 
Think_About_It said:
My belief is not that “there is no God”. Rather, I don’t believe there is evidence for God. My non-belief is a non-creed. You don’t have a creed for not believing in zeus. I don’t have a creed for not believing in Yahweh.

all creeds are wrong*
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Deciding not to decide is a decision - just in a limited sense. You have a creed. Make no mistake about that.

As to evidence: Consider the Christian martyrs. Not what they lived for, but rather what they died for. There are no atheist or agnostic martyrs. Based on such a lack, shouldn’t you renounce atheism/agnosticism?
 
MrZetterlund said:
If it’s any concelation, I now agree with them. The objection to the Pope and idolatry was a mis-understanding. The only one I didn’t agree with was infant Baptism. Which someone pointed out, circumcision is to be brought into a covenant with God just as Baptism is.
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So quick to conform! Oh won’t you let me teach you of the dark side? 😉
 
In regard to asking for Mary’s intercession ,or the saints either for that matter: When you were a child did you ever ask your Mom for something because you weren’t comfortable going to Dad? I think sometimes we are like that with God. We may either not feel worthy to approach him or would like someone else to give us support. As for the saints, why not look at them as a friend who has been through what you have and can relate to us as a human who had all the struggles and deficiencies that we had and yet through their faith overcame them. They are there to assist us, but we don’t worship them or Mary. Many Americans respect George Washington or Abraham Lincoln, but they don’t worship them. By the way, there are statues that have been erected to honor those men.
 
Doc_Keele said:
I know what you’re saying, but when I tried convincing people in a Carmelite discussion group that we shouldn’t use the term “praying to Mary” I was met with quite strong opposition! :confused:
We asking her to interceed for us is how I understand it. The term “pray” suggests rightly or wrongly to most Protestants that we treat Mary as God.
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Pray tell me why would one think this?
 
DCNBILL said:
Pray tell me why would one think this?
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My guess would be in our time / culture (at least in the US), when someone says “pray”, most people take it to mean to a deity.

Like when someone uses the word gay today, they almost always mean homosexual, not happy. Go back a hundred years (or maybe less) and if someone said gay, most likely they would mean happy.
 
po18guy said:
As to infant Baptism, the Orthodox carry it even further and administer not only Baptism, but even communion to infants.
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We administer baptism, chrismation (confirmation), and Holy Communion to infants. The Eastern Catholics do as well.
 
MrZetterlund said:
I really admire the Catholic faith and unity, however, I must get answers to these objecctions before I could ever “swim the Tiber,” (I think is what it’s called.) 🤷

1: Most Catholics believe that the Pope in inherent and is the succesor of Peter. But Peter certainly wasn’t inherent. He denied Christ three times.
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We beleive that the teaching of the Magisterium, and the Pope personally is in fallible. And it is, it is interesting to note that the only sea never to teach error is Rome. Every other Sea has on on multiple occations fallen into Heresy. The Church does not, and has never taught the sinlessness of the Pope or magisterium on the individual level.
MrZetterlund said:
2: Catholics see Baptism as a promise that a child will be raised in the faith. But in the Bible it’s a public confession of faith.
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No we don’t, you’ve gotten confused with the fact that the Church does make the parents promise to raise the child in the faith. Obviously there is no guarantee that the parents will, that promise is an exhortation made because salvation can be lost.

The Church does however teach that baptism saves, just as Peter says (from RSV):
21: Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
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and Douay:
20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. [R] +]
21 Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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From the CCC:
This sacrament is primarily called Baptism because of the central rite with which it is celebrated. To baptize means to ‘immerse’ in water. The one who is baptized is immersed into the death of Christ and rises with him as a ‘new creature’ (2 Corinthians 5:17). This sacrament is also called the ‘bath of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit’ (Titus 3:5); and it is called ‘enlightenment’ because the baptized becomes ‘a son of light’ (Ephesians 5:8).
In the Old Covenant Baptism was pre-figured in various ways: water, seen as source of life and of death; in the Ark of Noah, which saved by means of water; in the passing through the Red Sea, which liberated Israel from Egyptian slavery; in the crossing of the Jordan River, that brought Israel into the promised land which is the image of eternal life. +]
254. Who brought to fulfillment those prefigurations? +]
1223-1224 +]
All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Jesus Christ. At the beginning of his public life Jesus had himself baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan. On the cross, blood and water, signs of Baptism and the Eucharist, flowed from his pierced side. After his Resurrection he gave to his apostles this mission: ‘Go forth and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit’ (Matthew 28:19).
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MrZetterlund said:
3: Catholics kiss the toe of a statue of Peter, don’t they? And pray to Mary, and kiss the Pope’s ring, ect. How can this not be viewed as idolatry?

Forgive me if I come across as a little persistant, but I can’t really acomplish much if I don’t ask.
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No it really can’t, it can be viewed as veneration.
 
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