Why I'm Still Not Catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter The_Iambic_Pen
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
toothdigger said:
I really do appreciate this - at this point, having participated in the Liturgy and having received the Holy Eucharist from the hands of an Abbot (and other priests) over a period of 4 months now and usually once a week… I can not imagine going backwards.
Click to expand...
You wouldn’t be going backwards - this would be a step forwards in greater understanding, and realization that one must be Catholic to receive the Sacraments, and out of respect for the customs of the Catholic culture.

If someone asks you (I doubt they would, though), then you could just explain to them, “I’m not Catholic, and I only recently found out that non-Catholics aren’t supposed to receive the Eucharist at Mass. I want to show respect for your beliefs and culture, until I’m able to receive as a Catholic, myself.” People would be understanding; it’s very common for non-Catholics to mistakingly receive the Eucharist until someone explains to them why they can’t.
As I said, the more I find out, the more I see I do not know and the more I want to know and understand…
Click to expand...
It is a process…sometimes a bit circular…
Click to expand...
That part actually never ends. 🙂
 
To Toothdigger,

I believe God is calling you to the Catholic Church. It is good that you have come to this forum, since you will have the opportunity to ask many of the questions that concern you.

From your post, you say that there are some areas where you agree with CC doctrines and some where you disagree. Rather than examining each CC doctrine separately, the more important issue to examine is whether the Catholic Church is what she claims to be. This is from the Documents of Vatican II, “The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium)”:

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

“8. Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation (9*) through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element.(10*) For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine Word as a living organ of salvation, so, in a similar way, does the visible social structure of the Church serve the Spirit of Christ, who vivifies it, in the building up of the body.(73) (11*)”

Note the Church says Christ “communicated truth and grace to all” through the Church. Also, the Church has “a divine and human element.” These are bold statements, and if they are true, then everything the Church teaches is true. If they are not, then the Church is a liar and is not to be trusted. (Note CS Lewis said the same thing about Christ–He is either a liar, a lunatic, or God–no middle ground here either.)

If you accept that the CC says in Lumen Gentium, then assume that what she teaches is true. Your job then is to discover why she teaches what she does. I have had trouble with many of her teachings, but have always come to agree with her once I know the reasons behind the teachings.
 
Janet_S said:
To Toothdigger,

I believe God is calling you to the Catholic Church. It is good that you have come to this forum, since you will have the opportunity to ask many of the questions that concern you.

If you accept that the CC says in Lumen Gentium, then assume that what she teaches is true. Your job then is to discover why she teaches what she does. I have had trouble with many of her teachings, but have always come to agree with her once I know the reasons behind the teachings.
Click to expand...
Good morning Janet!

First, thanks for the information on the Lumen Gentium - no, this I have not read. I will. Nevertheless:

I wanted to tell you that this morning I prayed that I would live a holy life **today **- now, I am not saying that I never desired holiness or a sin-free life, but I admit that I did not often pray for it. And, it occurred to me that any faith which pushes me in that direction - in the desire for a holy life - can not be in error. Therefore, I am converting to the Catholic faith. I am going to contact a local priest, and begin the process today. I still have many many questions and concerns but I know this is the right decision for me.

As for the Eucharist, the only way that I can keep from receiving it without driving myself crazy is not to put myself in a situation in which it is offered. I will try to do this, but right now I am not sure that I will succeed.

So, Janet, please put me on your prayer list…
 
Catholic_Dude said:
This at least tells me you recognize there are “difficulties” in EO and that allows for a fair look at both the CC and EO.

To me it comes down to this…St Peter. He is admitted to be the head Apostle in the New Testament as well as with the Early Church Fathers. There is no dispute the Bishop of Rome is the successor of St Peter and that St Peter came to Rome. Rome is called the “Apostolic See” because the two greatest Apostles Peter and Paul landed there. With the EO, Constantinople is the “head” church yet there is no support an Apostle was originally there not to mention the See of Rome is around 300 years older.

Now it comes down to this, Rome, admitted to be the See of St Peter, the head Apostle, is said to have fallen into heresy/schism…does this make sense? Not in my mind.

What “doctrinal developments” do you have in mind?
You cant deny the fact that as time goes by doctrine sometimes needs to be further defined, in the case of Protestantism, the Council of Trent was invaluable.

Its a tough issue, but important questions cant just be brushed off, for example:
If Original Sin doesnt stand in the way of salvation, will all unBaptized infants go to Heaven?..NEITHER the CC or EO have concluded “yes”…why not? Because each recognizes its not a open and shut case, this isnt a matter of either side wanting to be “mean”, rather we both recognize difficulties in the situation.

There are two issues here, the first regarding original sin and Baptism. The Church infallibly teaches Baptism is the oridinary means of cleansing of OS, it has never said God’s grace is restricted to Baptism. In short we dont claim to pre-judge anyone.
As for the “subject to the Roman Pontiff” that is directed at those knowingly not submitting to him.

Also teachins like “Baptism of desire” are infallibly taugh by Trent.

Im not sure what this means.
Surely you recognize the famous “What ever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven”…authority given to men by Jesus isnt “man made”

I dont know the details of this.

This isnt a valid question in terms of EO vs CC.

No problem. By the way Im interested in your Big 7 Questions in regards to EO doctrines you cant accept at this moment in time.
Click to expand...
I think that Jesus has a magnificent task for you within the Catholic faith for you to encounter such difficulties. All your doubts are so easily dismissed, if you would just have an open heart. All the answers would be poured deeply within it.
You already have the answers…all the answers, you need to just maybe look at them differently. I look to day when you say to us on this forum, “hey guys I have joined the one holy catholic and apostolic church” The Church whose head is Jesus Christ himself and whose visible head is the universal pastro “Peter.” (Now BXVI)
God Bless
Grace Angel.:angel1:
 
To Toothdigger,

I am so happy that you have come to the decision to become Catholic. Good luck to you on your journey. We need good people like you.

I will put you on my prayer list. Please pray for me as well.

Janet
 
toothdigger said:
Good morning Janet!

First, thanks for the information on the Lumen Gentium - no, this I have not read. I will. Nevertheless:

I wanted to tell you that this morning I prayed that I would live a holy life **today **- now, I am not saying that I never desired holiness or a sin-free life, but I admit that I did not often pray for it. And, it occurred to me that any faith which pushes me in that direction - in the desire for a holy life - can not be in error. Therefore, I am converting to the Catholic faith. I am going to contact a local priest, and begin the process today. I still have many many questions and concerns but I know this is the right decision for me.

As for the Eucharist, the only way that I can keep from receiving it without driving myself crazy is not to put myself in a situation in which it is offered. I will try to do this, but right now I am not sure that I will succeed.

So, Janet, please put me on your prayer list…
Click to expand...
God bless you, toothdigger! You are in my prayers as well.

-Chris
 
Janet_S said:
To Toothdigger,

If you accept what the CC says in Lumen Gentium, then assume that what she teaches is true. Your job then is to discover why she teaches what she does. I have had trouble with many of her teachings, but have always come to agree with her once I know the reasons behind the teachings.
Click to expand...
Just curious, what teachings did you have trouble with, again if you don’t mind me asking…

Thanks, Janet!
 
Janet_S said:
To Toothdigger,

I am so happy that you have come to the decision to become Catholic. Good luck to you on your journey. We need good people like you.

I will put you on my prayer list. Please pray for me as well.

Janet
Click to expand...
Janet,

I will!

Thanks for everything. :tiphat:
 
toothdigger said:
I wanted to tell you that this morning I prayed that I would live a holy life **today **- now, I am not saying that I never desired holiness or a sin-free life, but I admit that I did not often pray for it. And, it occurred to me that any faith which pushes me in that direction - in the desire for a holy life - can not be in error. Therefore, I am converting to the Catholic faith. I am going to contact a local priest, and begin the process today. I still have many many questions and concerns but I know this is the right decision for me.
Click to expand...
YAAAY, this is such great news!!! 👍

:dancing: :clapping: :dancing: :bounce: :love: :clapping: :dancing:
 
jmcrae said:
YAAAY, this is such great news!!!
Click to expand...
Thanks so much!!

I do like those little animated fellows!:rotfl:
Now, I have a lot of work to do; lots of reading and studying, etc.
Pray for me!

(P.S. I owe a lot to a Catholic friend of mine, a person who had the courage to give me a “tract” to read and who answered my challenging questions… and who put up with my stubbornness in regards to the Eucharist…thanks to T.R.)

:tiphat:
 
toothdigger said:
Therefore, I am converting to the Catholic faith. I am going to contact a local priest, and begin the process today. I still have many many questions and concerns but I know this is the right decision for me.

As for the Eucharist, the only way that I can keep from receiving it without driving myself crazy is not to put myself in a situation in which it is offered. I will try to do this, but right now I am not sure that I will succeed.
Click to expand...
Thanks be to God! You are also in my prayers on your journey home! :bounce::clapping::dancing:
 
toothdigger said:
Just curious, what teachings did you have trouble with, again if you don’t mind me asking…

Thanks, Janet!
Click to expand...
My background may be a little different from yours, so I didn’t have the same issues that you did. I was born and raised a Catholic, left the Church at an early age, was an atheist/agnostic until the age 41 when I returned to the Church. It’s been 8 years since I returned to the Church, and I thank God that He called me back home.

I didn’t have any trouble with theological issues about Mary, or salvation, or anything else since I never was a Protestant. The only experience I had with religion was Catholicism, even though I now know I didn’t know much about it. So I was familiar with most of the Church’s theological teachings and was ready to accept whatever She taught.

From my long period of atheism, though, I do have some trouble imagining heaven and the afterlife. Yet I know this is an important part of God’s revelation, so I accept it and look forward to it.

I still have trouble going to Confession. I get very nervous when I do go, and I don’t go every month like I should.

I did have trouble with the idea of Truth. It troubled me a lot when I first heard the claim that the Catholic Church taught what was true–and consequently other religions did not have all the Truth. I was uncomfortable with the Church’s bold claim. Now I recognize I was a relativist (I didn’t believe in objective Truth–your truth is your truth, my truth is my truth.) This philosophy is very popular in the world today, and we live in a world where everyone wants to define what “reality” is. We want to make up our own ideas about God, and find a religion that fits out ideas. It took a while to realize that God made me, I didn’t make Him. He is reality and does not exist only in our minds.

My biggest problems were with the moral teachings, especially life issues–birth control, euthanasia, abortion, extra-marital sexual activity, divorce and remarriage. At one time I didn’t see problems with any of these issues. It took a long time for me to investigate why the Church teaches what she does. Now I have totally come around to think in line with the Church on all these issues. I now believe these issues are the biggest threat to our culture today.

I hope this helps you.
 
Mary3 said:
Thanks be to God! You are also in my prayers on your journey home! :bounce::clapping::dancing:
Click to expand...
Mary3 -

Thanks! I am excited to be making this journey. I am reading the Lumen Gentium right now (per Janet S.'s suggestion) and finding it beautiful.

In Christ,
:yup:
 
Janet_S said:
My background may be a little different from yours, so I didn’t have the same issues that you did. I was born and raised a Catholic, left the Church at an early age, was an atheist/agnostic until the age 41 when I returned to the Church. It’s been 8 years since I returned to the Church, and I thank God that He called me back home.
Click to expand...
We are about the same age. I am glad God called you back to Him, too. Obviously you not only left His Church, but you also ran from Him. I have done some running from Him too.
I didn’t have any trouble with theological issues about Mary, or salvation, or anything else since I never was a Protestant. The only experience I had with religion was Catholicism, even though I now know I didn’t know much about it. So I was familiar with most of the Church’s theological teachings and was ready to accept whatever She taught.
Click to expand...
I do think that once I read about each issue I will come around. I read a wonderful commentary on Mary which helped me understand this doctrine/dogma (?) better.
From my long period of atheism, though, I do have some trouble imagining heaven and the afterlife. Yet I know this is an important part of God’s revelation, so I accept it and look forward to it.
Click to expand...
Heaven is being in the presence of Almighty God while knowing fully His Love… we have a taste of this in the Eucharist and in our time before the Blessed Sacrament in prayer. Yes?
I still have trouble going to Confession. I get very nervous when I do go, and I don’t go every month like I should.
Click to expand...
I can imagine that I will be extremely nervous the first time…
I did have trouble with the idea of Truth. It troubled me a lot when I first heard the claim that the Catholic Church taught what was true–and consequently other religions did not have all the Truth. I was uncomfortable with the Church’s bold claim. Now I recognize I was a relativist (I didn’t believe in objective Truth–your truth is your truth, my truth is my truth.) This philosophy is very popular in the world today, and we live in a world where everyone wants to define what “reality” is. We want to make up our own ideas about God, and find a religion that fits out ideas. It took a while to realize that God made me, I didn’t make Him. He is reality and does not exist only in our minds.
Click to expand...
Truth is expressed in the Word of God first and foremost - this is the reality of Christianity. God’s Word is alive, active and able to discern the thoughts of a person. The Church as I understand it is designed by God to protect that Truth… teach that Truth and show us the Love of our Lord.
My biggest problems were with the moral teachings, especially life issues–birth control, euthanasia, abortion, extra-marital sexual activity, divorce and remarriage. At one time I didn’t see problems with any of these issues. It took a long time for me to investigate why the Church teaches what she does. Now I have totally come around to think in line with the Church on all these issues. I now believe these issues are the biggest threat to our culture today.
Click to expand...
Morality follows our belief and trust in Christ. Without Him, we have no way of being moral. It is our unbelief and mistrust and rebellion against Christ that causes those “life issues”: divorce, murder, drug abuse, racial divisions, extra-marital sexual activity, lying, euthanasia, abortion, you name it…
I hope this helps you.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing Janet.
Christ be with you.👋
 
To Toothdigger:

Thanks for your responses to my last post.

I know you have a lot of things to read, but I wanted to recommend a good article about Mary by Mark Shea. This is one of the best explanations of Marian doctrine I have read.

crisismagazine.com/december2004/feature1.htm

The Mother of the Son: the Case for Marian Devotion
 
Janet_S said:
To Toothdigger:

If the CC truly speaks with the authority she says she has (the voice of Christ in the world today), you cannot dismiss any of her teachings by saying “I understand what the CC is teaching, I just don’t agree with it.” That would be the same as saying to Christ: “I know what you are saying, Jesus, I just don’t happen to agree with you.”

If the CC doesn’t have the authority she says she has, then she is a liar. Why do you trust a liar and want her Eucharist anyway?
Click to expand...
False dichotomy based on the ambiguity of the phrase “Catholic Church.” The question for Protestants is precisely whether the Roman Communion is to be identified with the “Catholic Church.” The Eucharist is the Church’s Eucharist, not the Eucharist of the See of Rome. If the See of Rome is mistaken (not necessarily a liar because that implies deliberate deceit), that has nothing to do with our desire for Eucharistic communion with the churches who acknowledge the authority of Rome. Communion, in our view, is not based on being right on every point, but on a common faith in Christ.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
False dichotomy based on the ambiguity of the phrase “Catholic Church.” The question for Protestants is precisely whether the Roman Communion is to be identified with the “Catholic Church.” The Eucharist is the Church’s Eucharist, not the Eucharist of the See of Rome. If the See of Rome is mistaken (not necessarily a liar because that implies deliberate deceit), that has nothing to do with our desire for Eucharistic communion with the churches who acknowledge the authority of Rome. Communion, in our view, is not based on being right on every point, but on a common faith in Christ.

Edwin
Click to expand...
This has been my position for the past 4 months, and now reading the 1964 LUMEN GENTIUM, it appears to have been Pope Paul VI’s idea as well… see page 29.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top