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divinefaith
Guest
I have to admit the pill’s side effects can sometimes be irritating. I use it for hormonal reasons and I’ve developed skin pigmentation. Not everyone might experience that side effect though
- Status
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dcharles
Guest
Janet Smith reports this at this site
janetsmith.excerptsofinri.com/
Let me give this anecdote. I have a friend who has seven brothers and sisters. They were all raised Catholic and very few of them are practicing Catholics now and all of them are contraceptors except one couple. The couple that is not contracepting, using Natural Family Planning, has four children, all planned, etc. The other couples, again, have no children, all contracepting, two income households, lots of disposable income, lots of time for romance and fun. And one night the eight of them were having a very open discussion about their sex lives. And all of the women, the contracepting women, were complaining that they felt that they were just being used in the sexual act. They felt that this was just one more thing that was expected of them, and they felt used. And the men were complaining. They were complaining that they had been reduced to begging for sex, which they found demeaning, and that they were engaging in sex with a woman who just wasn’t all that engaged. She might just as well be watching TV. The couple using Natural Family Planning were kind of looking at each other quizzically and saying, “What are they talking about? Is sex not interesting? Is sex not as interesting as TV? Begging for sex? I don’t know what this is all about.” They’re doing just fine.
Do husbands have to beg for sex? Ask the husbands if birth control pills decrease sex drive. The wives don’t notice it because they don’t feel a need for sex when on the pill, thus they don’t notice a lack of what they don’t feel a need for. Ask the husbands what they think. The moment the wives start taking the pill, the sex drive goes away. The difference is night and day. Unfortunately the studies show it does take several months for the sex drive to return after going off the pill.
Yes men, do you want your entire marriage to be in this situation, your entire life?
It makes for a miserable marriage. Some men in their entire lives have never been in a situation where the wife was not on birth control pills, so they never experienced marriage as it was supposed to be. Yes, their wives may have gone off the pill to get pregnant, but again the studies show that it takes several months for the sex drive to return, and if they get pregnant in that time, the men still don’t experience the normal state of married life.
In my opinion this is one of the primary causes of divorce. God created sex, not only for children, but the Church teaches **sex is supposed to bind the husband and wife together. ** Birth Control pills prevent that binding. They are horrible. They make for a miserable marriage.
Now, don’t think some other form of contraception will solve the problem entirely.
We forget that we have a fallen human nature, inclined toward sin.
Sin is defined by the Church as "it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods."
ALL PEOPLE ARE SLAVES OF SIN.
The reason God became man was NOT to open the gates of heaven, but to free us from this slavery to sin.
In other words, because of original sin we ALL have a perverse attachment to certain goods. Why? Because everyone wants to be happy. And from childhood we have experienced and been taught that pleasures, such toys, at first, then later good food, alcohol, a beautiful view, a beautiful house, an entertaining movie, football game, money, work, sex, etc, brings temporary happiness. Thus, we think that more of a good thing will bring more happiness. Thus all people because slaves of some pleasure, some worldly good, some even love their work to much. All these perversions of love makes us slaves to that good. This slavery to the goods that God gives us causes a “failure in genuine love for God and neighbor.”
This failure to love our neighbor, especially our closest relatives is what causes problems in our lives. It causes divorce, alienation from our brothers, sisters, parents, friends, people at work, etc. This is sin. This is what causes unhappiness in our lives.
If we could only love God and all those we come in contact with, and not be enslaved to worldly goods, then we would be happy.
BUT WE CAN’T. It is impossible, because we don’t have the grace to do so. God became man to free us from this slavery to the goods He gives us so we can love God and others. The more we love God, and seek His grace, the more we can love others. We love them so much that we can be happy just showing them that love. Mother Teresa of Calcutta was an extreme example. After prayer, she spent her free time taking care of filthy, stinking dying people. Normally that would make for a very unhappy life. It is not fun at all do this day after day, your whole life. But, she was extremely happy doing this. She didn’t even get any consolations from God in prayer most of her life. No response from God in other words She experienced the “dark night of the soul” as St. John of the Cross calls it. But she did say she got her happiness taking care of these dying miserable people. WHY, because as the Popes teach, the more we turn to God, the more He gives us a love for others. The more we receive the sacraments and pray, the more he gives us that love, and the happier we are giving that love to others. That is why the saints prayed 4 to 5 a day. They wanted to be freed from the slavery of sin and they wanted that grace that gave them a love for others that made them happy when they gave that love to others.
janetsmith.excerptsofinri.com/
Let me give this anecdote. I have a friend who has seven brothers and sisters. They were all raised Catholic and very few of them are practicing Catholics now and all of them are contraceptors except one couple. The couple that is not contracepting, using Natural Family Planning, has four children, all planned, etc. The other couples, again, have no children, all contracepting, two income households, lots of disposable income, lots of time for romance and fun. And one night the eight of them were having a very open discussion about their sex lives. And all of the women, the contracepting women, were complaining that they felt that they were just being used in the sexual act. They felt that this was just one more thing that was expected of them, and they felt used. And the men were complaining. They were complaining that they had been reduced to begging for sex, which they found demeaning, and that they were engaging in sex with a woman who just wasn’t all that engaged. She might just as well be watching TV. The couple using Natural Family Planning were kind of looking at each other quizzically and saying, “What are they talking about? Is sex not interesting? Is sex not as interesting as TV? Begging for sex? I don’t know what this is all about.” They’re doing just fine.
Do husbands have to beg for sex? Ask the husbands if birth control pills decrease sex drive. The wives don’t notice it because they don’t feel a need for sex when on the pill, thus they don’t notice a lack of what they don’t feel a need for. Ask the husbands what they think. The moment the wives start taking the pill, the sex drive goes away. The difference is night and day. Unfortunately the studies show it does take several months for the sex drive to return after going off the pill.
Yes men, do you want your entire marriage to be in this situation, your entire life?
It makes for a miserable marriage. Some men in their entire lives have never been in a situation where the wife was not on birth control pills, so they never experienced marriage as it was supposed to be. Yes, their wives may have gone off the pill to get pregnant, but again the studies show that it takes several months for the sex drive to return, and if they get pregnant in that time, the men still don’t experience the normal state of married life.
In my opinion this is one of the primary causes of divorce. God created sex, not only for children, but the Church teaches **sex is supposed to bind the husband and wife together. ** Birth Control pills prevent that binding. They are horrible. They make for a miserable marriage.
Now, don’t think some other form of contraception will solve the problem entirely.
We forget that we have a fallen human nature, inclined toward sin.
Sin is defined by the Church as "it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods."
ALL PEOPLE ARE SLAVES OF SIN.
The reason God became man was NOT to open the gates of heaven, but to free us from this slavery to sin.
In other words, because of original sin we ALL have a perverse attachment to certain goods. Why? Because everyone wants to be happy. And from childhood we have experienced and been taught that pleasures, such toys, at first, then later good food, alcohol, a beautiful view, a beautiful house, an entertaining movie, football game, money, work, sex, etc, brings temporary happiness. Thus, we think that more of a good thing will bring more happiness. Thus all people because slaves of some pleasure, some worldly good, some even love their work to much. All these perversions of love makes us slaves to that good. This slavery to the goods that God gives us causes a “failure in genuine love for God and neighbor.”
This failure to love our neighbor, especially our closest relatives is what causes problems in our lives. It causes divorce, alienation from our brothers, sisters, parents, friends, people at work, etc. This is sin. This is what causes unhappiness in our lives.
If we could only love God and all those we come in contact with, and not be enslaved to worldly goods, then we would be happy.
BUT WE CAN’T. It is impossible, because we don’t have the grace to do so. God became man to free us from this slavery to the goods He gives us so we can love God and others. The more we love God, and seek His grace, the more we can love others. We love them so much that we can be happy just showing them that love. Mother Teresa of Calcutta was an extreme example. After prayer, she spent her free time taking care of filthy, stinking dying people. Normally that would make for a very unhappy life. It is not fun at all do this day after day, your whole life. But, she was extremely happy doing this. She didn’t even get any consolations from God in prayer most of her life. No response from God in other words She experienced the “dark night of the soul” as St. John of the Cross calls it. But she did say she got her happiness taking care of these dying miserable people. WHY, because as the Popes teach, the more we turn to God, the more He gives us a love for others. The more we receive the sacraments and pray, the more he gives us that love, and the happier we are giving that love to others. That is why the saints prayed 4 to 5 a day. They wanted to be freed from the slavery of sin and they wanted that grace that gave them a love for others that made them happy when they gave that love to others.
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dcharles
Guest
Thus, even if there was some form of contraception that had no side effects, the fact that a couple contracepts shows a decision to turn away from love, and to put their happiness in a certain good. In this case unlimited sex, or sex combined with a fear of another child. Another child often causes fear, because the parents still don’t understand that Christianity is love. These parents still fear that another child will cause them to be short of material goods to which they have put their happiness in. In other words, they are still in the child stage where they think more of the goods that God gives us will bring more happiness. They don’t realize that happiness in a beautiful house, new car, etc. takes away from their love of God and their neighbor. They become self-centered, wrapped up in themselves, and to attached to their goods to love others the way they should. That is why Jesus said you can’t love God and material wealth.
Without the love that God pours into their hearts, they cannot tolerate the faults of others, they can’t love others in spite of their faults, they can’t love their spouses the way they should, they can’t forgive the faults of their spouses, and thus they get divorced. Natural family planning, when it is truly needed, prevents this perverse attachment to sex, because it requires abstinence. It also requires prayer and God’s grace to practice this. This seeking of God to follow His will results in a greater love of God and of others. This love of others translates to better marriages, and much happier marriages.
Thus, even a type of contraception that does NOT cause a decrease in the sex drive will still cause a failure to love God and thus a failure to love others the way God wants. And all that leads to unhappiness, bad relationships with others, even our spouse, and often divorce.
Pope JPII, probably explained it better than me, but it is all the same. Read his teachings about contraception for a better understanding.
Putting our happiness in the things of this world, instead of God, leads to self centeredness, turning inward, addiction to our feelings. Putting God first frees us from the slavery to things, (even though we will now enjoy them more), and He gives us the grace to love, even love those with lots of faults, and when we can love like this we will be happy.
Without the love that God pours into their hearts, they cannot tolerate the faults of others, they can’t love others in spite of their faults, they can’t love their spouses the way they should, they can’t forgive the faults of their spouses, and thus they get divorced. Natural family planning, when it is truly needed, prevents this perverse attachment to sex, because it requires abstinence. It also requires prayer and God’s grace to practice this. This seeking of God to follow His will results in a greater love of God and of others. This love of others translates to better marriages, and much happier marriages.
Thus, even a type of contraception that does NOT cause a decrease in the sex drive will still cause a failure to love God and thus a failure to love others the way God wants. And all that leads to unhappiness, bad relationships with others, even our spouse, and often divorce.
Pope JPII, probably explained it better than me, but it is all the same. Read his teachings about contraception for a better understanding.
Putting our happiness in the things of this world, instead of God, leads to self centeredness, turning inward, addiction to our feelings. Putting God first frees us from the slavery to things, (even though we will now enjoy them more), and He gives us the grace to love, even love those with lots of faults, and when we can love like this we will be happy.
W
Warrior1979
Guest
We can all provide examples…people I know that practice NFP:
My grandparents. If you could find a more miserable couple, you’d win a Nobel Prize. Their status is Catholic, but not devout.
My neighbors across the street. She’s about 40, and they haven’t had sex in about three years. The only reason they are still together is that it is too expensive to get divorced. Misery wouldn’t begin to describe their relationship. Status: Catholic, not devout
A good friend of mine. They’re a very happy couple, but I haven’t seen him in years. The wife’s cycle got irregular, and they had an autistic child when they were in their 40s. Status: Catholic, devout.
etc., etc., etc.at
Basically, it seems just like the general population. The only commonality I also see though, is that devout couples don’t divorce, whether they practice NFP or don’t even have sex at all…as expected.
My grandparents. If you could find a more miserable couple, you’d win a Nobel Prize. Their status is Catholic, but not devout.
My neighbors across the street. She’s about 40, and they haven’t had sex in about three years. The only reason they are still together is that it is too expensive to get divorced. Misery wouldn’t begin to describe their relationship. Status: Catholic, not devout
A good friend of mine. They’re a very happy couple, but I haven’t seen him in years. The wife’s cycle got irregular, and they had an autistic child when they were in their 40s. Status: Catholic, devout.
etc., etc., etc.at
Basically, it seems just like the general population. The only commonality I also see though, is that devout couples don’t divorce, whether they practice NFP or don’t even have sex at all…as expected.
W
Warrior1979
Guest
FWIW, I have no agenda, so results never bother me. I do have a problem with people that start with a foregone conclusion and work backwards. The truth always prevails.
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dcharles
Guest
Again, some people think that all these studies in which NFP is used and have only a 4% divorce rate are faulty because they “cherry pick”. That is a lie.
Again, the Family of the Americas study showed a 0.2% divorce rate. Yes, they did pray more and go to mass more. That is why the sociologist who did the study ADJUSTED IT to match the same Catholics who did not practice their faith as well, and who had a divorce rate with the national average of 30-50%. When he did that adjustment, the divorce rate was 4% instead of 0.2%
This next study shows the divorce rate for ordinary Catholics who use NFP and those who are devout who make use of God’s sources of grace and also use NFP. We can see the difference.
But even the non-devout Catholics have a divorce rate that averages less than 4%
Statistical Information from “The Practice of Natural Family Planning Versus the Use of Artificial Birth Control: Family, Sexual and Moral Issues” by Mercedes Arzu Wilson, in Catholic Social Science Review, Vol VII, Nov. 2002
Couples that are married by a justice of peace – 50% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church – 33% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church and attend Church together – 2% end in divorce.
Couples using NFP – 2-5% end in divorce. (my note, these are the ordinary, non-devout Catholics)
Couples married by the Church, pray together, and use NFP - .001 – 1% end in divorce.
(my note: these are the devout Catholics)
Thus, no one can accuse this study of “cherry picking” only the devout Catholics. It shows the divorce rate of both groups, the ordinary non-devout, and those who make use of God’s grace and teachings to achieve an unbelievably low divorce rate.
He became man to free us from our inclination to sin, to make it possible to love God and love our neighbor the way we should. In doing this He also opened the gates of heaven, but that was NOT His purpose in becoming man, it was to free us from our self-centeredness, from our selfishness, to make it possible to love God and neighbor. This love is what brings us happiness.
We receive the grace that frees us from our sins through the sacraments and through prayer. All the studies show the same thing, that those who love God and obtain His grace through prayer and the sacraments have an extremely low divorce rate. Those who reject God’s teaching by using artificial contraception have a divorce rate similar to the rest of the population. Those who use NFP and are not devout still have an extremely low divorce rate. Those who make use of God’s grace, out of love for Him, and obey Him by using NFP if they have to limit their family size, have an unbelievable low divorce rate.
Again, the Family of the Americas study showed a 0.2% divorce rate. Yes, they did pray more and go to mass more. That is why the sociologist who did the study ADJUSTED IT to match the same Catholics who did not practice their faith as well, and who had a divorce rate with the national average of 30-50%. When he did that adjustment, the divorce rate was 4% instead of 0.2%
This next study shows the divorce rate for ordinary Catholics who use NFP and those who are devout who make use of God’s sources of grace and also use NFP. We can see the difference.
But even the non-devout Catholics have a divorce rate that averages less than 4%
Statistical Information from “The Practice of Natural Family Planning Versus the Use of Artificial Birth Control: Family, Sexual and Moral Issues” by Mercedes Arzu Wilson, in Catholic Social Science Review, Vol VII, Nov. 2002
Couples that are married by a justice of peace – 50% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church – 33% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church and attend Church together – 2% end in divorce.
Couples using NFP – 2-5% end in divorce. (my note, these are the ordinary, non-devout Catholics)
Couples married by the Church, pray together, and use NFP - .001 – 1% end in divorce.
(my note: these are the devout Catholics)
Thus, no one can accuse this study of “cherry picking” only the devout Catholics. It shows the divorce rate of both groups, the ordinary non-devout, and those who make use of God’s grace and teachings to achieve an unbelievably low divorce rate.
Code:
WHY, Because God became man to save us, that is to set us free from the slavery of sin. God did not become man to open the gates of heaven. No where does the Church teach that the reason God became man was to make eternal salvation possible, that is, to open the gates of heaven.We receive the grace that frees us from our sins through the sacraments and through prayer. All the studies show the same thing, that those who love God and obtain His grace through prayer and the sacraments have an extremely low divorce rate. Those who reject God’s teaching by using artificial contraception have a divorce rate similar to the rest of the population. Those who use NFP and are not devout still have an extremely low divorce rate. Those who make use of God’s grace, out of love for Him, and obey Him by using NFP if they have to limit their family size, have an unbelievable low divorce rate.
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dcharles
Guest
No one has ever shown a single study where the divorce rate of people who use NFP was above 4%. Never.
If Catholics who use NFP are also devout and make use of God’s grace through prayer and the sacraments, their divorce rate is less than 1% and even zero in some studies I have read.
Thus why in the world would Catholics want to use artificial birth control, especially dangerous birth control pills, with their increase in cancer rates, and which cause the deaths of the innocent unborn children, which decrease the sex drives of the women who take them, thus making the husbands miserable, and their marriages miserable, which turn peoples hearts away from God, and away from the Church, which alone has God’s teachings handed down infallibly. These teachings of God, which Jesus handed down and taught entirely to His Church are all for our good and for our happiness.
Why would anyone want to reject the teachings of God, who is all good and who suffered and died so that we can be happy in this life, and instead listen to the ideas of the abortion company, Planned Parenthood, and its founder Margaret Sanger who thought children were a burden because they prevented her from committing adultery and why would they listen to the greedy birth control companies who will promote any drug, no matter how dangerous it is to adults and their unborn babies, as long as they can make money.
Why don’t they believe Jesus when He said to listen to His Church?
Why do they want to be unhappy and slaves to the misery of sin?
Using birth control pills is pure stupidity.
If Catholics who use NFP are also devout and make use of God’s grace through prayer and the sacraments, their divorce rate is less than 1% and even zero in some studies I have read.
Thus why in the world would Catholics want to use artificial birth control, especially dangerous birth control pills, with their increase in cancer rates, and which cause the deaths of the innocent unborn children, which decrease the sex drives of the women who take them, thus making the husbands miserable, and their marriages miserable, which turn peoples hearts away from God, and away from the Church, which alone has God’s teachings handed down infallibly. These teachings of God, which Jesus handed down and taught entirely to His Church are all for our good and for our happiness.
Why would anyone want to reject the teachings of God, who is all good and who suffered and died so that we can be happy in this life, and instead listen to the ideas of the abortion company, Planned Parenthood, and its founder Margaret Sanger who thought children were a burden because they prevented her from committing adultery and why would they listen to the greedy birth control companies who will promote any drug, no matter how dangerous it is to adults and their unborn babies, as long as they can make money.
Why don’t they believe Jesus when He said to listen to His Church?
Why do they want to be unhappy and slaves to the misery of sin?
Using birth control pills is pure stupidity.
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Anathama_Sit
Guest
Greetings Maryjk,Do you really think that people make that distinction? Or is it more that they don’t understand?
I know that when I used ABC, I had no idea that it was against the teaches of the Catholic Church. I wasn’t going against anything, as far as I knew.
Yes I do. We as Catholics are encouraged to learn about our faith. Should this not have been an area that you researched even if you did not know about what the Church taught about Contraception when you were using it? I need to stop before my response gets a bit more uncharitable. [Next paragraph]
I do not know how anyone could be a Catholic and not just happen to know that contraception in all forms are wrong. I have a very hard time in believing that there are people out there who have been Catholic that just do not know these Church doctrines.
Perhaps I am being a bit hard in my reply, but it’s pretty hard not to know that Abortion is wrong, contraception is wrong, and ect.
If you had lived on an island all your life and just learned about the Faith, then I just might understand this position that you are positing. As it is, I just see in most cases this as a justification as to continue on using contraception.
I think I will stay out of these types of threads because 1. People already have decided for themselves whether they will use contraception or not depsite what the Teaching of the Church is. 2. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot force him to drink.
God Bless.
Anathama Sit
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dcharles
Guest
Statistical Information from “The Practice of Natural Family Planning Versus the Use of Artificial Birth Control: Family, Sexual and Moral Issues” by Mercedes Arzu Wilson, in Catholic Social Science Review, Vol VII, Nov. 2002
Couples that are married by a justice of peace – 50% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church – 33% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church and attend Church together – 2% end in divorce.
Couples using NFP – 2-5% end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church, pray together, and use NFP - .001 – 1% end in divorce.
These stats were gathered from the original study below
familiadelasamericas.org/inc/data/divorce_study_eng_wilson.pdf
Couples that are married by a justice of peace – 50% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church – 33% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church and attend Church together – 2% end in divorce.
Couples using NFP – 2-5% end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church, pray together, and use NFP - .001 – 1% end in divorce.
These stats were gathered from the original study below
familiadelasamericas.org/inc/data/divorce_study_eng_wilson.pdf
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dcharles
Guest
As for those who promote the lie, without any scientific evidence that NFP is NOT effective I would like to present the true scientific evidence.
This is from the:
**British Medical Journal, Sept 18, 1993 v307 n6906 p723(4) **
as it reviewed scientific studies, including World Health Organization studies.
Here is the link:
**
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/587813/posts**
This is from the:
**British Medical Journal, Sept 18, 1993 v307 n6906 p723(4) **
as it reviewed scientific studies, including World Health Organization studies.
The largest natural family planning study combined effective teaching with high motivation and showed that natural family planning can be extremely effective in the Third World.[33] The study was of 19 843 predominantly poor women in Calcutta, 52% Hindu, 27% Muslim, and 21% Christian. Because of poverty motivation was high both among the users and among the well trained teachers of natural family planning. The failure rate was similar to that with the combined contraceptive pill–0.2 pregnancy/100 women users yearly.[33] The result suggests that poverty as the motivation can greatly improve the effectiveness of natural family planning. A similar result, however, was achieved in Germany in a study with a pregnancy rate of 0.8.[34]
An Italian study found an overall pregnancy rate of 3.6, all the pregnancies occurring in couples wishing to space but not limit their families. The pregnancy rate was zero in couples who wanted no more children.[30] With other German studies finding pregnancy rates of 1.8[31] and 2.3,[36] a study in general practice in the United Kingdom finding a rate of 2.7,[39] and a study among 3003 illiterate and semiliterate women in India yielding a pregnancy rate of 2.04[37] the accumulating data confirm that natural family planning can be as effective as any method of family planning.
An Italian study found an overall pregnancy rate of 3.6, all the pregnancies occurring in couples wishing to space but not limit their families. The pregnancy rate was zero in couples who wanted no more children.[30] With other German studies finding pregnancy rates of 1.8[31] and 2.3,[36] a study in general practice in the United Kingdom finding a rate of 2.7,[39] and a study among 3003 illiterate and semiliterate women in India yielding a pregnancy rate of 2.04[37] the accumulating data confirm that natural family planning can be as effective as any method of family planning.
Here is the link:
**
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/587813/posts**
A
Anathama_Sit
Guest
Greetings Dcharles,
I was wondering if this document or study is available in another format besides pdf. If you know where I could find it, I would appreciate it if you could direct me to it.
God Bless.
Anathama Sit
E
EasterJoy
Guest
You do know that there is a difference between correlation and causation, right? That is, the same thing that allows a couple to use NFP (say, attentiveness to one’s body, communication skills and a mutual willingness to put future good ahead of present desire) might also stave off divorce. That couple might elect not to use NFP (maybe they use nothing or they might use the hormones found in birth control pills for medical reasons not having to do with willful contraception), and have the same result.
For instance, just because having a child with a disability increases a couple’s chance of having a divorce doesn’t mean that the divorce is the child’s fault. The child didn’t cause the divorce. Agnostics and atheists have a lower rate of divorce than people who are affiliated with a religion. That doesn’t meant that religion affiliation causes divorce, either.
R
ryecroft
Guest
When I read through this “study”, nowhere did I find it saying that this began 20 years ago and that within those 20 years the percentage of couples who used NFP at the beginning who were still using it 5 or 10 or 15 or 20 years later were married, divorced or anything else. From what I could gather, this “study” got in touch with NFP teachers and had them choose the students they would have questioned. (this in itself makes this “study” suspect - as there was no randomness about the testing - the people asked were chosen by their teachers). It seems (from what I read this study to say) - that a certain number of people who were using NFP were asked by their NFP instructors to be studied - their average marriage of these particular NFP users was a little over 15 years - no where did it begin with a group and then study this group 5, 10 or 15 years later. Yes, it gave information about their life ( how many partners they’d had, if they had ever used ABC, etc)- I don’t see that it proved anything but that they were able to find a number of NFP users who were still married - it basically went backwards - first finding the couples who had been chosen to respond and had gone to NFP training as little as 3 years ago and upwards of 15 years ago. Then they asked this chosen group a number of moral questions such as: “how many partners have you had?” and “have you had any abortions?”…
Saying that this study in anyway PROVED that the marriages that used NFP have a less than 1% chance of divorce is at best MISLEADING.
This work sites a number of articles - one takes the Creighton method into question - and then it claims a 99.5 and 96.8 % “effective rate” - but only in the foot notes does it mention that by the 18th month there is a combines “discontinuation rate” of almost 1/4 of the participants (not they don’t say WHY they discontinued use).
It just looked like this work was being used to try to prove that NFP only based marriages have a less than 1% chance of divorce and with regards to this study, I don’t believe that this was in any way proven. I have no doubt that many if not most NFP marriages have a fairly low rate of divorce and I’m really happy for those people that have success with the method.
God Bless
Rye
p.s. This work sites a number of articles - one takes the Creighton method into question - and then it claims a 99.5 and 96.8 % “effective rate” - but only in the foot notes does it mention that by the 18th month there is a combined"discontinuation rate" of almost 1/4 of the participants (they don’t say WHY they discontinued use). This is a study I’ve seen sighted multiple times at pro life/Catholic sites - but making any claims about this information being accurate and touting that very high “success” rate in my opinion at best is misleading - at worst dishonest
D
dcharles
Guest
Why don’t you write the author, she has a website and ask her those questions. I am sure she can give you more information. I am sure that many people have attacked these studies before, after all, the birth control pill companies have a lot to lose, and so I am sure they have searched for errors. They could lose billions if the truth was promoted. But, we know from experience that those who oppose the Catholic Church are not exactly obsessed with the truth.
Again, if there were any studies that showed artificial contraception was good for marriages, planned parenthood and the birth control companies would have promoted them, put them in the literature, advertised them to ad nauseum. Even if they could have fudged a little bit, they would put up their lies everywhere. Anything for money.
There are none. If there were any studies which showed NFP led to only an average divorce rate, Planned parenthood, the liberals, the birth control lobby, the birth control companies would have promoted them forever. Anything to defend their money making organizations.
There are no studies which show artificial contraception is good for marriage. The only studies I can find, and I have searched forever, is that those who use NFP, even the ordinary Christians/Catholics, the same ones who normally have a divorce rate of 30% or more, have an extremely low divorce rate, less than 4%, and if they seek God’s grace and or pray together the divorce rate is zero or approaches zero.
Again, all this is expected since God is good. NO ONE is good but God alone. Thus ONLY God knows what is good for us. He became man, suffered and died to free us from the misery that sin brings. Thus, if we seek His grace, in order to follow His teachings ( which are for our good and happiness), then we would expect the results we see from all these studies.
If you know someone besides Jesus who is all good, never did evil, never lied, never sinned, never was selfish and claims to teach everyone how to live a happy life, and enables us to break free from our slavery to evil so that we can follow these teachings, then please let me know.
D
dcharles
Guest
I looked, but could not find one in any other format. I suppose because it has colored charts and graphs which are hard to put in other formats.
But here is a website, Physicians for life, where a sociologist evaluted this study and compared it to others. physiciansforlife.org/content/view/193/36/
The author writes:
For years we have witnessed the benefits our programs have provided to families, not only in Christian countries, but also Moslem and even communist nations. Even though numerous scientific evaluations and statistical studies have confirmed its effectiveness, even superior to artificial birth control, we have never been able to validate the incredible benefits to the family that our teachers have been observing for many years.
Last year a scientific survey was conducted under the direction of a reputable independent statistician, Dr. Robert Lerner. He is a Sociologist from the University of Chicago with a degree in Economics. The protocol stipulated that he would not only evaluate the findings, but also compare them to two of the largest U.S. government funded surveys that asked similar questions of the respondents.
A survey undertaken by Family of the Americas Foundation of women who had taken instruction on NFP at least three to over ten years ago which is called the NFP survey.
The National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG), which is carried out by the U.S. Government’s National Center for Health Statistics.
The General Social Survey (GSS), conducted by the National Opinion Research Center (NORC), a well known and highly regarded national survey research organization, whose data collection efforts in this instance is funded by the U.S. Government’s National Science Foundation Social Science Data Program.
If your computer cannot open the link I posted of the original study, then download Adobe Reader from the internet. It is free and will install itself.
Or you could go to a public library and look at it on a computer there and print it out, or ask the librarian to print it out.
The study at the Family of the Americas website would not open correctly.
Try the original link I posted, or search for other websites which have the study in the PDF format and open them up.
D
dcharles
Guest
I have this summary of the study in the regular HTML format on the internet at this pre-cana site:
Here is the website:
resources.familyministries.org/inthespiritofcana/appendix_F.htm
This is the summary
Couples that are married by a justice of peace – 50% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church – 33% of marriages end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church and attend Church together – 2% end in divorce.
Couples using NFP – 2-5% end in divorce.
Couples married by the Church, pray together, and use NFP - .001 – 1% end in divorce.
(Statistical information from “The Practice of Natural Family Planning Versus the Use of Artificial Birth Control: Family, Sexual and Moral Issues” by Mercedes Arzu Wilson, in Catholic Social Science Review, Vol VII, Nov. 2002)
W
Warrior1979
Guest
I read the Wilson article.
All I can say is Wow!!!
Bias…Bias…Bias…
In fact, anyone that writes articles like that has no right to call themselves researchers. They should stick with writing opinion pieces.
That’s coming from someone with a science degree that spent years reviewing various articles for publication (my first job out of college). I also spent years after that reading articles pertaining to nutritional-related matters after that looking for bias (and found plenty).
The population sample selected for that article is a specific subset of the general population. It is not representative of the entire population of data, and it is entirely inappropriate to apply what that study shows to the general population.
I could start going through why, but I have a busy day at work.
All I can say is Wow!!!
Bias…Bias…Bias…
In fact, anyone that writes articles like that has no right to call themselves researchers. They should stick with writing opinion pieces.
That’s coming from someone with a science degree that spent years reviewing various articles for publication (my first job out of college). I also spent years after that reading articles pertaining to nutritional-related matters after that looking for bias (and found plenty).
The population sample selected for that article is a specific subset of the general population. It is not representative of the entire population of data, and it is entirely inappropriate to apply what that study shows to the general population.
I could start going through why, but I have a busy day at work.
C
Calliso
Guest
Yeah I don’t understand how the OP can;t see how suspect this study looks when you look at it this way. I mean it seems like they basically cherry picked the data to get the results they wanted. But yeah this in no way proves or is even strong evidence that NFP alone keeps marriages together. There usually other factors and one brought up a lot in this thread is that the devout NFP users are more likely though certainly not guarenteed to be the type that believe in no divorce ever. Really though if a couple was having marriage problems and were on the pill or some other form of contraception. I think the last thing I would recommend is NFP! I think with all the stress and strain NFP can and often does put on a marriage often times you really need a strong healthy marriage in the first place in order to endure. Of course like has been pointed out before some people will stay married no matter how miserable they are and some of those people are using NFP. But those people probably aren;t staying together because of NFP they are staying together because they believe in no divorce ever!
M
maryjk
Guest
Feel free to be uncharitable. In fact, you already have been.
Which other areas, in your vast experience should I have researched? I am sure you know.
Right?There isn’t anything in the Catholic faith you don’t know, don’t understand or just have never come across, right?
Open your eyes. There are lots of people that simply do not know the teachings of the Church on contraception. Just look around here.
Or maybe grew up in the 70’s when contraception was never mentioned. Or maybe didn’t have the internet growing up. Or maybe lived in a house where people thought practicing their faith included simply going to Mass on Sunday.
I am glad the person that spoke to me about the teachings didn’t have your attitude. Otherwise, I might still be in the dark and still using ABC. Instead, she talked to me about it and I am now, and have been for many years using NFP.
C
Calliso
Guest
Lol now i think I may read this just so I can see how bad it is for myself!
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