Why insulting prophet Muhammad?!

[srp643]

Faith101:
Its different to you because you want to see it as different. But in reality, a sterile parent does not have the “cells” required to have a baby. To you, its this huge big deal. To Muslims, God is great, and He can do everything and anything. Just because a boy is born from a virgin doesnt make him God.

You are gong to disagree and then we will go back and forth…so lets agree to disagree.

Ostensibly you want to see the Truth as different and are afraid it is this huge big deal. Agreed God is great and can do everything and anything but you are mixing apples and oranges. Next time you hear of a child born to sterile parents, go ahead and investigate the DNA reports if that helps you.

 

[demetrios1973]

Islam is a cancer that must be cut out of America before it spreads. We can see for ourselves how Europe has been compromised by the “religion of peace”.

Demetrios

 

[discipleofJesus]

Faith101:

Just because a boy is born from a virgin doesnt make him God.

another straw man?

who believes, that if a boy is born from a virgin, that just because he is born from a virgin that that makes him God?

 

[allischalmers]

to understand islam you must understand it’s origin, Mohanmad was nothing more than a gangster, put it mildly. He was the head of a band of thiefs and murderers. After he wrote the koran and the Arabs embraced it he was able to build his little band into a mighty army which is why they where able to conquer all the middle east.
But why did the Arab’s embrace Mohammad’s Koran, Well the Arabs are desendent of Ishmael and this what God said about Ishmael,s seed’ Gen. 16;12 " and he will be a wild man, his hand will be against every man and every man’s hand against him, etc."

allischalmers

 

[exoflare]

allischalmers:

to understand islam you must understand it’s origin, Mohanmad was nothing more than a gangster, put it mildly. He was the head of a band of thiefs and murderers. After he wrote the koran and the Arabs embraced it he was able to build his little band into a mighty army which is why they where able to conquer all the middle east.
But why did the Arab’s embrace Mohammad’s Koran, Well the Arabs are desendent of Ishmael and this what God said about Ishmael,s seed’ Gen. 16;12 " and he will be a wild man, his hand will be against every man and every man’s hand against him, etc."

allischalmers

This one’s fairly self-explanatory as well…

(Gen 25:18)
The Ishmaelites ranged from Havilah-by-Shur, which is on the border of Egypt, all the way to Asshur; and each of them pitched camp in opposition to his various kinsmen.

 

[AquinasXVI]

Faith101:

Christ himself said he IS GOD. As a Catholic who would I rather believe, the one who claimed he was God, died and resurrected or a self proclaimed prophet with promises of 72 virgins if I take out the enemies of his God?

in XT.

 

[mjdonnelly]

Faith101:

…that leaves me with one question…what are you doing in the non-catholic part of the forum?

You mean of the Catholic forum.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Faith101:

There is no compulsion in religion. YOu can not be “forced to convert” …that would just be like creating a whole bunch of hypocrites…hypocrites, like disbelievers, are in hell…so there would really be no point forcing someone to convert.

If christians were forbidden from commiting fornication, why then do Americans (majority of them being Christian) commit fornication with no shame? I dont care what you say about what CHrsitianity teaches about fornication…i’m just gong to look at the Christians and understand the religion that way.

hmmm…not a smart thing to do.

I beg to differ with you. History tells us that when Islam spread out of Saudi Arabia in the late 600s, the conquered people were given a choice - convert or die. Can you honestly say that the historical record lies and that people weren’t forced to convert or be executed?

Speaking for myself and for many of my other fellow Americans, I have been married and utterly faithful to my wife for 30 years. What you see on TV and in the movies is not an accurate representation of the vast majority of Americans. You would do well to remember the words of Admiral Yamamoto - “We have woken an sleeping giant and have filled him with a terrible resolve”. You make a grave mistake in judging America by the contents of its media.

 

[discipleofJesus]

Faith101:

There is no compulsion in religion. YOu can not be “forced to convert” …that would just be like creating a whole bunch of hypocrites…hypocrites, like disbelievers, are in hell…so there would really be no point forcing someone to convert.

Oh really no compulsion in religion? Wow thanks, i’m convinced now.

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0033:
“It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.”

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 80:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
“The Verse:–“You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.” means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.”

The verse it is referring to is Sura 3:110 in the Quran

What is the punishment for someone who leaves Islam, according to Islam? Death!

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
“Narrated Abu Burda:
Abu Musa said… Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu’adh asked, “Who is this (man)?” Abu Muisa said, “He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.” Then Abu Muisa requested Mu’adh to sit down but Mu’adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers…”

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
"Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64:
“Narrated 'Ali:
Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah’s Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.”

No compulsion in religion ay?

 

[discipleofJesus]

Question :

Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers”
[Yoonus 10:99]
“There is no compulsion in religion”
[al-Baqarah 2:256]
What is your opinion concerning that?.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

*“But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5] *

He did not say, “if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

*“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29] *

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

*“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39] *

cont…

 

[discipleofJesus]

…

*“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5] *

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219 (www.islam-qa.com)

Taken from “Question #34770: There is no compulsion to accept Islam” 63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=34770&dgn=4 ( islamqa.com/ )
(underline emphasis mine)

 

[AdvanceAlways]

Every day our Christian faith is insulted by the whole Islamic world. The fact that you refer to the prophet Jesus is a grave insult because you turn God into a mere prophet. Do you see us Christians rioting and burning donw embassys (like what a group of muslims did in Beiruit today) ? No i didnt think so. Do you see us flying planes into Mecaa? No. Do you see us sending our family members into a city to blow themselves up? No. You have all proven to me that your religion is hypocrisy. You claim to worship the one God, but you dont. you claim to spread peace, but you dont.

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

PPatience,

I want to be patient, I want to see your faith as great peaceful religion. The actions of the few are taking away from that fact, I want to be honest with you.

Was the cartoon insulting? Probably I can see why. But in a Free Society that allows for Freedom of Speech it is allowed. Have you seen the insulting depictions of Jesus? Of Jews? I hope so, but look at the reaction of that community. There is outrage, but there isn’t violence, there aren’t riots.

The reaction of some in the Muslim World, burning flags, chanting death to the West, praising the “Magnificent 19” lends credence to those who say Islam is a violent faith and those was saw truth in the cartoons.

To truly survive and thrive in a Free Society, one must recognize the Freedom of Speech and the proper method of dealing with that which we find insulting. If you look in the Muslim World, there are incredible insulting depictions of Judaism and their religion. Yet, there are no riots protesting that. It must be a two-way street. Respect and Freedom.

Regards and God Bless

 

[brotherhrolf]

I spent about a half hour on the net reaffirming my knowledge of the history of Islam. I came across accounts written by Coptic Christians of the sack of Alexandria, Egypt in which churches were burned including the Church of St. Mark, home of the Alexandrian Patriarchate. I came across a statement from the current Coptic Pope Shenouda decrying the forced conversions of Coptic Christians in Egypt today - 2006.

ewtn.com/library/CHISTORY/ZCRSADES.HTM

This link was especially interesting in its rebuttal of Islamic claims.

I am not the least bit swayed by Faith101s protestations that Islam is peaceful and doesn’t force conversions. History AND current events are replete with descriptions of the very thing he says cannot happen.

 

[srp643]

discipleofJesus:

Oh really no compulsion in religion? Wow thanks, i’m convinced now.

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0033:
“It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.”

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 80:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
“The Verse:–“You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.” means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.”

The verse it is referring to is Sura 3:110 in the Quran

What is the punishment for someone who leaves Islam, according to Islam? Death!

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
“Narrated Abu Burda:
Abu Musa said… Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu’adh asked, “Who is this (man)?” Abu Muisa said, “He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.” Then Abu Muisa requested Mu’adh to sit down but Mu’adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers…”

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
"Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64:
“Narrated 'Ali:
Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah’s Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.”

No compulsion in religion ay?

Incredibly enlightening. This explains a lot, thank you.

 

[bjd2006pc]

To All Our Muslim Brothers:

I, as a Christian, will not slam your religion. If it were not for Muslim scholars then the western world would not have access to the writings of the Greeks. (They protected those writings).

There were many contributions made to world by our Muslim brothers.

However, those contributions stopped long ago.

My beef with Islam (I must make it clear–my beef is with the Fundamentalists)…please don’t turn to violence to make your points…

From the attacks on Christians and Jews to 9/11. From the murder of children at Beslan to the attack on the Theater in Moscow. From the decapitations of innocents in Iraq to the bombings in Israel. From the hangings of innocents at a field in Kabul to the butcher of a wedding party in Amman. From the burning of a girls school in Saudi Arabia (one girl didnt have on a scarf, therefore all the girls must be murdered) to the hanging of a boy in Iran who wanted to taste alchohol. From the taking of the Embassy in Tehran to the burning of the Danish Embassies. From the pathetic sights of Palestinian babies being paraded around in ‘Suicide Bomber’ outfits to the murder of a filmmaker in Holland…Should I go on and on and on and on and on…

NO! This has got to stop. I implore all Muslims to fight these true “Infidels”. These people are taking over your religion. I guarantee you that soon, very soon, most of the world will not take you seriously at all. They will have had it with all of the violence that they will not want to have anything to do with you. Please don’t let this happen.

All Peaceful Muslims must take up this fight against Islamofascism. It is not healthy for your faith and definately not for humanity.

Also, think about this. If these radicals are only ten percent of the muslim population that is 100,000,000. These hundred million people are willing to tape bombs to themselves so they can get into ‘paradise’. That is not only sad, but sick…

The murder of innocents must stop…the riots must stop…ONLY when the Peaceful Muslim Population stand up and take charge will the rest of the world show them some respect that they deserve.

Joe

 

[brotherhrolf]

bjd2006pc:

If it were not for Muslim scholars then the western world would not have access to the writings of the Greeks. (They protected those writings).

Sorry, this is simply not true. The Byzantines being Greeks had the writings of the Greeks to pass to the Muslim world. It was the Muslim world that passed these to the West. In addition, the Irish monasteries had excellent libraries and succeeded in passing this knowledge back to the European mainland. It is inconceivable that the storehouse of Greek knowledge would not be maintained by the Byzantine Empire.

 

[Vintagecoils]

To Faith 101,

We as Christians of the true God of Abraham know that men are sinners and no one ever claimed prophets to be other wise. However through the Holy Spirit they taught the word of God. Its irrevelant that you reject their sins.

If you do not know the old testament then you have know way of knowing if your prohet is teaching about the same God or if what he teaches is not different then the prophets of the old testament.

The Old testament foretold the coming of Christ and what he would bring to man. All the prophets of the old testement taught in unison. Your prophet does not teach the same things or about the same God.

It is not just the same message of just “worship God” first off you can not verify that the God your prophet presented to you is the same God of Abraham and Jesus because you can not verify with the past teachings. You don’t know the old teachings to beable to confirm what he has said. Even Jesus verified what he taught with the teachings of the old prophets. Jesus came for all as he told us. Jew and Gentile. How can your prophet change his teachings. He was not there. However there are hundreds of witnesses to what Jesus taught yet you reject it. Jesus sent his disciples out to all parts of the world to spread the gospel.
Its not enough for someone to say they are related to me because they called their mother “mommy” One would need to go back to the beginning to truelly know if indeed we shared the same blood parent. Just because you say your prophet is teaching about the same God does not hold up against the scrictural teachings or evidence. You have taken the word of one man with absolutely no historical connection of doctrine or human verification. Just like the Mormoms.

No I do not need to know every wind of doctrine. If I know the right path to reach my destination I do not need to wonder around going down paths that will prevent me from reaching my destination. If anything I run the risk of not making it to my destination being sidetracked. Read the bible parable about the 10 virgins. Having said that I have however studied Islam, hinduism, buddism, confucious B’hai, suffiism, and a few others. All were incomplete, or completely leading one nowhere, many were lacking in trully being insink with the true human experience or had no relationship with God but were self oriented. I found Islam to be the epitimy of denial and the inability to submitt. It is all about your prophets insecurity and inability to submit to The God of Abraham.

I come to the non-catholic part of this forum because people come from other denominations and religions to learn about Catholic beliefs. I was not aware that you came to this forum to ask questions about christians and not expect christians to be here and answer you. How would you get your answer?

 

[srp643]

bjd2006pc:

To All Our Muslim Brothers:

I, as a Christian, will not slam your religion. If it were not for Muslim scholars then the western world would not have access to the writings of the Greeks. (They protected those writings).

There were many contributions made to world by our Muslim brothers.

However, those contributions stopped long ago.

My beef with Islam (I must make it clear–my beef is with the Fundamentalists)…please don’t turn to violence to make your points…

From the attacks on Christians and Jews to 9/11. From the murder of children at Beslan to the attack on the Theater in Moscow. From the decapitations of innocents in Iraq to the bombings in Israel. From the hangings of innocents at a field in Kabul to the butcher of a wedding party in Amman. From the burning of a girls school in Saudi Arabia (one girl didnt have on a scarf, therefore all the girls must be murdered) to the hanging of a boy in Iran who wanted to taste alchohol. From the taking of the Embassy in Tehran to the burning of the Danish Embassies. From the pathetic sights of Palestinian babies being paraded around in ‘Suicide Bomber’ outfits to the murder of a filmmaker in Holland…Should I go on and on and on and on and on…

NO! This has got to stop. I implore all Muslims to fight these true “Infidels”. These people are taking over your religion. I guarantee you that soon, very soon, most of the world will not take you seriously at all. They will have had it with all of the violence that they will not want to have anything to do with you. Please don’t let this happen.

All Peaceful Muslims must take up this fight against Islamofascism. It is not healthy for your faith and definately not for humanity.

Also, think about this. If these radicals are only ten percent of the muslim population that is 100,000,000. These hundred million people are willing to tape bombs to themselves so they can get into ‘paradise’. That is not only sad, but sick…

The murder of innocents must stop…the riots must stop…ONLY when the Peaceful Muslim Population stand up and take charge will the rest of the world show them some respect that they deserve.

Joe

Amen. It comes down to our prayers and muslim elder leadership. I would suggest they consider peace marches condemning the acts of their brethren you have identified as well as their terrorist organizations. If they cannot do this, then they are effectively endorsing these events and organizations.

 

[TobyLue]

Amen. It comes down to our prayers and muslim elder leadership. I would suggest they consider peace marches condemning the acts of their brethren you have identified as well as their terrorist organizations. If they cannot do this, then they are effectively endorsing these events and organizations.

I agree. There has been no response to my post #72