Why is a recurring Eucharist necessary?

[Gorgias]

So Gorgias, if I am correct, you are saying:

1. God commanded the Israelites to celebrate the Passover as a remembrance that God saved them from the Egyptian bondage. Passover is not for atonement.

Correct. God is not asking the Israelites to “re-kill” the Egyptians.

1. Jesus commanded the Christians to celebrate the Eucharist as a remembrance of His sacrifice (for our salvation from the bondage of sin and death.) This is not a repeated sacrifice for atonement. And, it supersedes and replaces Passover.

Yes and yes. The Eucharist is an anamnesis, a remembrance of His passion, death, and resurrection for our salvation. It is not a ‘repeat episode’ of His “once and for all” event – it is a re-presentation of the one event. And, as we look at the Mosaic covenant and the New Covenant that replaces it, this ‘memorial’ perfects and replaces the Passover observance.

In a way, the Eucharist seems to be still repeating the Passover, but differently

No. It perfects it and completes it… but it doesn’t just merely repeat it.

And did Jesus command that the Eucharist be repeated over and over, or only at the Last Supper?

“Do this in remembrance of me” would be a weird command if it only meant “do what I’m doing now, and only do it now, to remember me (even though you don’t need to remember me now, since I’m right here in front of you)”… right?

Furthermore,… the Eucharist is a meal that strengthens Christians for avoiding the bondage of sin.

Am I correct?

Yes… and no. The Passover remembrance had no power to ‘strengthen’. The Eucharist, and the true Body and Blood of Jesus – to which He testified in John 6 – actually has real spiritual effect.

This leaves us with Todd_Easton’s post about repentance… Is Todd saying that Eucharist does atone for repented minor sins?

That’s a different question. And, with all due respect, it’s more important that you ‘get’ the question of the Eucharist in general, before you begin to attempt to understand other ancillary questions. So… let’s make sure you understand the basics first, ok…? (Cause, after all, it doesn’t contradict what I’m asserting…)

 

[Limoncello4021]

The just man sins seven times per day.
We sin all the time, and we constantly need to grow in holiness. That’s the point of life as a journey toward heaven. We cannot be complacent but our working out our salvation.
The Eucharist is our daily bread, our communion with the Living God in the intimacy of our being. It is the best possible help toward the goal of holiness. That’s why many Catholics go to daily Mass.

 

[Spyridon]

The eternal Todah sacrifice.

Todah is Hebrew for “thank offering”, the Jews taught when Messiah came the Todah sacrifice would be offered to the end of the world.

Eucharist is Greek for “thanksgiving”. The Eucharist is the eternal Todah prophesied by the Jewish Sages.

Indeed, an old Rabbinic teaching says: “In the coming Messianic age all sacrifices will cease, but the thank offering [todah] will never cease.”

From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: The Story of the Todah

Scholars have often wondered how the practice of Christian Eucharist could have arisen from the Lords Supper, which occurred in the context of the Jew...

www.catholiceducation.org

 

[Spyridon]

My Protestant friends tell me that Catholics repeat Jesus’ sacrifice at each Eucharist, and that this is not necessary, because Jesus died once for our sins?

Catholics don’t sacrifice Jesus at the Eucharist.

The Sacrifice Jesus made is made present in the Mass.

 

[Reuben_J]

@sthudium. You got a point there to liken receiving the Eucharist as replenishing our bank account to keep it in the black.

As for why the Eucharist (celebration of the mass) is necessary, it is simply because Jesus asked us to do so.

“Do this in memory of me.” Do we always remember as we should? No, as humans we often forget what the Lord did on Calvary, and so we sin in those moment when we forget. Otherwise, we won’t sin if we really were there all the times in our lives watching Jesus died on the cross and hearing him saying, “I am doing this for you so that you will sin no more.”

Unlike some Protestants, our life as Christians has a starting point - Baptism. That makes all the difference.

At our Baptism we are sinless; we are as white as snow. Yes, all the red in our bank account was paid and deleted, and there was zero deficit. That is until we incur expenses again and we would be in the red once more.

Christian life is also like that. Like everybody else we sin. We forget the sacrifice at Calvary.

We need to be reminded of Calvary again and again. And again. Jesus foresaw all that - so he devised the Eucharist as part of our life in worship - “Do this in memory of me,” to remember Calvary again and again. And again. Lest we forget in a momentary lapse.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

If the Eucharist is not a re-sacrifice, but, rather, a re-presentation of the sacrifice, why do we need this re-presentation? I suspect Protestants don’t understand that, and so think of the Eucharist as a re-sacrifice. If they understood why the recurring re-presentation is necessary, they might not be so negative.

I didn’t go through the entire thread, so I hope I am not repeating someone else.

Jesus COMMANDED his Apostles “TO DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME.” This is not translated correctly in English Bibles. It is not meant to be some sort of sentimental type of remembering, but rather the same kind of “re-presentation” that was also commanded by God to the Israelites at their Exodus and Passover. (the same Hebrew word is used.)

Furthermore, Jesus Christ is the Messiah (as was foretold by the Prophets) who would lead his people Israel (meaning His Church) into the Promised Land with a NEW Heavenly Manna, which would surpass the Israelites Miraculous Manna in the desert.

That is WHY the Eucharist MUST be repeated; viz: for the "Re-presentation of the entire Sacrifice of Jesus Christ before the Father by our High Priest in the Holy of Holies (Heaven). AND because it is our Heavenly miraculous Manna that was prophesied with the coming of the Messiah, who will lead all of us to the Promised Land (Heaven.)

Protestants do not understand Typology that is in the bible. They don’t even understand that the New Testament is replete with it! All of the OT is a type for the greater and perfect Covenant we enjoy NOW, in the Catholic Church alone, which AS JESUS CHRIST FORETOLD, would fulfill the Old Law.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Does that mean that Protestants, who don’t celebrate the Passover as Eucharist are cut off and thus not eligible for salvation?

Yes and no. Yes they cut themselves off. No, not necessarily from Salvation. Protestants have an absolute fixation on Salvation to the exclusion of everything else. Catholics OTOH, have a whole Spectrum of beliefs which relate to Salvation, but the ULTIMATE goal of Catholics is the Love of God and the Love of neighbor. Fixating on personal salvation is actually rather selfish and leads to the whole problem of Calvinistic determinism. IOW, it is UNHEALTHY in a Christian. It is better to Love God as taught by the Church which will also lead to salvation.

 

[sthudium]

So, from what Spyridon and others have been saying, I prepared, what I think, are the “big-picture” sequence of traditions that lead to the Eucharist. The last bullet speaks to the question I originally asked at the start of this topic. Please comment.

1. Passover (remembrance) festival
   • Passover is fashioned after the first Passover, in which God passed-over the houses marked with the blood of a slain lamb.
   • Passover is a festival of remembrance of God’s salvation of the Israelites from Egyptian bondage.
   • Sacrifices are offered for thanksgiving, but not atonement.
   • The meal includes bread and the meat from a sacrificed lamb.
   • Passover is repeated every year to remember what God did for that first Passover.
2. Todah (a.k.a. sacrifice of thanksgiving, Lev 7:12) ceremony
   • Todah is a ceremony of thanksgiving for God’s provision of a particular blessing (e.g. a fruitful harvest) or God’s salvation of individuals from a particular peril (e.g. a battle defeat).
   • The todah includes remembrance of that blessing or salvation.
   • A sacrifice is offered for thanksgiving for the deliverance that God provided.
   • A meal includes consecrated bread, wine, and the meat from the sacrificed animal.
   • Todah is performed once, and for a particular deliverance.
3. Last Supper (remembrance and thanksgiving)
   • The Last Supper was fashioned after the Passover festival and Todah ceremony.
   • The Last Supper was celebrated in remembrance of and thanksgiving for the future death and resurrection which will provide salvation to Jesus’ followers from the peril of death.
   • Jesus provided the bread and wine, which are his body and blood.
   • Jesus commanded his followers to repeat this Passover and todah in remembrance of and thanksgiving for the salvation God provides for Jesus’ followers from death.
4. Eucharist (remembrance and thanksgiving)
   • The Eucharist is the Last Supper that Jesus commanded his followers to repeat.
   • The Eucharist is celebrated in remembrance of and thanksgiving for the salvation that God provides to Jesus’ followers from the peril of death.
   • Jesus re-presents his body and blood, which are in the bread and wine. No other sacrifice is needed.
   • The Eucharist is reserved for those who are in the proper state of relationship with Christ. (1 Corinthians 11:27)
   • Eucharist is repeated often, because as the Apostle Paul said, “For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes” (1 Corinthians 11:26).

 

[sthudium]

(name removed by moderator), I have modified post #32 to include your comment. Thanks.

However, I don’t quite see how being with us until the end of time applies to the Eucharist being repeated often.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Protestants avoid sin because they are already in God’s family, a membership they cannot lose.

Actually, there are various Protestant sects where the members constantly worry about their sins as somehow showing that they are not really part of God’s family.

There are other Protestant sects where the members actually believe that whatever sin they commit on earth doesn’t really matter once they have accepted Jesus Christ because they are already saved, so they don’t really knock themselves out avoiding sin.

“Protestant” is a very broad term. All “Protestants” do not see sin and its avoidance and their status as being “saved” in the same way.

 

[Billy_Buescher]

Another interesting point is the Our Father:

“Give us this day our daily bread”.

This statement is a bit of a mystery. Remember that the apostles were still finding out about Jesus. Was he simply talking about bread or about the eucharist? Many theologians believe Jesus was talking about the eucharist here.

If you look at this verse;

(Mat 6:10 DRB) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

(Mat 6:11 DRB) Give us this day our supersubstantial bread.

The Jews would compare the manna of the OT, to the bread of the NT, as being the “Bread of Presence”

(Joh 6:48 DRB) I am the bread of life.

(Joh 6:49 DRB) Your fathers did eat manna in the desert: and are dead.

(Joh 6:58 DRB) (6:59) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead. He that eateth this bread shall live for ever.

OT Jewish people re-lived the Exodus from Egypt as if they were there, we re-live the Lords Supper as if we are there.

 

[RedFan]

The following excerpt from an 1884 sermon given by an Episcopal priest, Daniel C. Roberts (1841-1907), on the twenty-fifth anniversary of the consecration of his church building, St. Paul’s, in Concord, New Hampshire:

"Christ hath offered and been offered once for all. But that one offering stands in the eternity of the being of God, free from the bond and measure of time, and He who made the offering stands in the royal Priesthood of Melchisedek, without beginning of days or end of life.

“We, in our feebleness, measure by days, by years, by anniversaries, generations, ages, centuries, cycles, but eternity with God is an everlasting now, and time is not. And so we plead, and the church ceases not to plead, the sacrifice of Christ. We do it day by day, year by year, and the narrow, scoffing unbeliever dares to say that we think to repeat the sacrifice many times. But it is not so. In the presence of that altar of the one sacrifice, in the presence of the cross of Calvary, we stand to-day; and we share to-day, by His own gift and benediction, the very Priesthood of Him who offers that sacrifice. We are made an holy Priesthood, offering unceasingly, as our constant and availing plea, but not renewing, that which is never old, never anything but new, the sacrifice of Christ.”

 

[sthudium]

sthudium wrote: “Protestants avoid sin because they are already in God’s family, a membership they cannot lose.”

Actually, there are various Protestant sects where the members constantly worry about their sins as somehow showing that they are not really part of God’s family.

There are other Protestant sects where the members actually believe that whatever sin they commit on earth doesn’t really matter once they have accepted Jesus Christ because they are already saved, so they don’t really knock themselves out avoiding sin.

“Protestant” is a very broad term. All “Protestants” do not see sin and its avoidance and their status as being “saved” in the same way.

Actually, I think what I said applies to Protestants. All Protestants avoid sin. True there may be some, who call themselves a Christian, that have no care in the world about whether they sin, but those would be a very small minority, and, I think, aren’t really Christians. I suppose there may be a sizable group who think being a Christian releases them from never sinning, but I’m not aware of them.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Whatever, I think you are a bit more interested in making large generalizations here than you are about actually understanding what each group of Protestants believe.

 

[GKMotley]

You can still get that understanding, here and there, among Anglicans.

 

[Todd_Easton]

There is a lot going on in the Eucharist. I suggest you read the section in the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Eucharist, paragraphs 1322-1419. I mentioned the forgiveness of our minor (venial) post-baptismal sins as one of the reasons for a recurring Eucharist. Consider the following associations of Eucharist with the forgiveness of venial sins mentioned in the Catechism:

1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:

[Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper “on the night when he was betrayed,” [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.187

1394 As bodily nourishment restores lost strength, so the Eucharist strengthens our charity, which tends to be weakened in daily life; and this living charity wipes away venial sins.228 By giving himself to us Christ revives our love and enables us to break our disordered attachments to creatures and root ourselves in him:

Since Christ died for us out of love, when we celebrate the memorial of his death at the moment of sacrifice we ask that love may be granted to us by the coming of the Holy Spirit. We humbly pray that in the strength of this love by which Christ willed to die for us, we, by receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, may be able to consider the world as crucified for us, and to be ourselves as crucified to the world… Having received the gift of love, let us die to sin and live for God.229

By the way, it is probably not a coincidence that Jesus closely associated “give us each day our daily bread” with “forgive us our sins” in his Our Father Prayer (Luke 11:3-4 and Matt 6:11-12), especially with the Eucharistic connotation that the word “bread” has.

 

[sthudium]

… I think you are a bit more interested in making large generalizations …

I think large generalizations get a bad rap, hahaha. For example, when I get on a plane, I generalize that the pilot is not drunk. I suppose there are some drunk pilots, but I have never encountered one. Hahaha

GKMotley wrote: “You can still get that understanding, here and there, among Anglicans.”

There probably are some Anglicans that care less about sin than I would prefer, but I doubt there are Anglicans that care nothing about sin.

 

[RedFan]

All generalizations are false. . . including this one.

 

[sthudium]

Good point, priests are not teachers only.

 

[sthudium]

By the way, it is probably not a coincidence that Jesus closely associated “give us each day our daily bread” with “forgive us our sins” in his Our Father Prayer (Luke 11:3-4 and Matt 6:11-12), especially with the Eucharistic connotation that the word “bread” has.

That is really interesting, Todd. I always assumed that we were praying for our daily needs. But you are saying that we are praying for what the Eucharist provides, spiritual food. For me, that puts everything in a new light.

I still don’t get the connection that “forgive us our sins” has with the Eucharist. But I do want to know.