Why is Catholic Mass so bland?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dnu
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It is my personal belief that the arguments in favor of latin, incense, bells, priest facing the tabernacle, communion on the tongue/kneeling are all a very distant second to the most important aspect of the Mass; that the celebrating priest intends to do what the Church intends him to do , and that is to consecrate simple bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ for the sanctification of our souls.

The very existence of the term “bells and smells” implies that some can be more concerned about the externals of Mass than the internal, the desire and submission of ourselves to receive the Body of Christ.

While I believe that each and every Mass should be celebrated properly and respectfully, I think we can sometimes become too hung up on the externals that we personally do or do not care for.

To complain that Mass is “too bland” is to convey a lack of understanding of *what *the Mass is. Mass celebrated in a hut in the middle of the jungle is every bit as holy and efficacious as a Papal High Mass in St. Peter’s.
 
dnu said:
hello,

Before coming to the Catholic Church, I spent some time around with the Eastern Orthodox. I noticed, that, even in the small mission parish near me, which only had about 40 people, the Divine Liturgy was amazing. The little mission-parish was indistinguishable from a parish of 1000. The mission still used incense, the Priest still faced the altar, there was a Cantor, procession, etc. etc. Even in that small environment, it felt like a truly Holy experience.

Now, at the Catholic parish I’m attending, which has about 300 people at the Mass I attend, there are no incense, there is no cantor, the Priest faces the congregation like we’re chums, children cry non-stop, and it is generally un-holy feeling. It is down right bland. If we had some modern instruments and the Priest would dress in a weather-man suit it would be indistinguishable from most Protestant Churches here in my home town.

Why can the Catholic Church not be more reverent and “holy” during Mass like the Eastern Churches are? I would go home and think about the EO Divine Liturgy for hours after leaving, now, I practically run to my car and go home and try to forget about the awful experience I just had. This is every Sunday. Now that we’re in Lent and the Mass is purposefully solemn it is down right horrible.

So, in short, why is the Catholic Mass so crumby and the E.O. Divine Liturgy so great?

David
Click to expand...
You need to understand what the Mass really is before you make such statements. Examine what you were taught and then learn the real issues of our religion.
This should help you get started. THE MASS IS ALL ABOUT GOD.
 
As has been mentioned, the most important aspect of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is that it makes present again, PRESENTS again, the Sacrifice of Calvary. We step outside of time and into eternity, as it were.

I think it is important to distinguish this from personal tastes. The OF should be celebrated properly, according to its rubrics, as should the EF, as should the Divine Liturgy, but beyond that, aren’t the “clothes” that the Holy Sacrifice wears a matter of subjective taste, at least in terms of “I like this” or “I prefer this” (the Sacrifice Itself is above such considerations). The OP cites the Orthodox liturgy as reverent (and I guess non-bland) as compared to the OF. I’ve attended Eastern Rite Catholic Divine Liturgies and walked away thinking I truly am a Latin Christian in my very heart and mindset. What some call “reverent” others might call fussy and overblown. I think there is a noble austerity to the OF rightly celebrated, which I much appreciated and to which I was glad to return after attendance at the EF. Austerity isn’t blandness and less CAN be more.
 
I attend the EF (high Mass) on Sundays - lasts between 1 and 1 1/2 hour.

I attend the OF Mass on a daily basis - half hour - nice short homily. Perfect lunch break.

Works great for me.

I do plan on attending a Greek service as soon as I can find one.
 
I’m sure some people, if they had witnessed the Last Supper - where Jesus did exactly what He told us to do afterwards in His memory - would’ve thought it was as dull as ditchwater too.

For those who truly understood its significance, of course, the opposite was true.

And for those who understand the significance of the Mass today, there honestly isn’t such a thing as a bland Mass. I know there isn’t for me, as long as I recollect that Christ is present at each and every one and HE certainly isn’t bland, the contrary.

The only time I have trouble is when I bring a bland attitude (one that is focused on externals of music, incense and whatnot, rather than on the central important reality) to the Mass.

None of this is to say that the Mass shouldn’t stick to the rubrics, or that abuses (instances where it doesn’t) oughtn’t to bother you. But music and incense? Call me strange, but the Last Supper doesn’t seem to have needed them, and neither do I.
 
In the mid 1960’s, when the Mass was changing from Latin to English, the criticism was that the Mass had become so much “protestant” in its form, a lot of people couldn’t get used to it, at first – but then they had no choice.

But, the main complaint previously was that nobody understood the Mass in Latin. It was hard to please everybody.

What upsets me is when the priest uses his discretion to drop out the optional parts of the Mass, like the Confiteor (“I confess”).

What enhances my experience today is good music. I don’t like music that is utilitarian, for example, just to kill time while the priest walks from A to B.

The EWTN Masses have music that is just too morbid sounding. Why does the Mass have to sound like a dirge? Well, for them, everything was handpicked by Mo. Angelica. It is NOT representative of most Masses in the U.S. The music has been “dumbed down” to the abilities of the monks and small choirs that they have.

I was lucky to get a phone call in to EWTN Live with Fr. Mitch and a priest guest who were discussing Gregorian Chant. I asked them why it was so popular, when you can’t even understand the words that they are singing? The priest said you’re NOT supposed to understand the words. DUH, that is so dumb to me.

There’s an old book out, Why Catholics Can’t Sing. I think it explains how little talent there is invested in good liturgy.

In Illinois someplace, the organist actually liked to play the piano more, and he sang with the microphone up to his lips, like he was playing in a lounge. His voice overwhelmed everybody put together.
 
dnu,
It’s now possible for me to “tune-out” distractions during the Mass, Most of the time.
I try not to criticize anything. But I found that when my mom started to attend Mass
with me on a regular basis, I made sure she sat where she could see and hear.
After a while that meant sitting in the first 3 rows. I found that there were a lot fewer
distractions. You might try that simple thing. Also pray that the Holy Spirit inspire
you to think kindly thoughts for those around you. Try to focus on Him only.
One day I was so focused on my prayer after communion, it took the person trying
to get by me in the pew touching my shoulder to get me to notice where I was!!!
 
dnu said:
hello,

Before coming to the Catholic Church, I spent some time around with the Eastern Orthodox. I noticed, that, even in the small mission parish near me, which only had about 40 people, the Divine Liturgy was amazing. The little mission-parish was indistinguishable from a parish of 1000. The mission still used incense, the Priest still faced the altar, there was a Cantor, procession, etc. etc. Even in that small environment, it felt like a truly Holy experience.
Click to expand...
My first question is what denomination are you now? Are you a member of an Orthodox Church, or a Protestant Ecclesial Community? If you’re Orthodox, as I understand it, when you become Catholic, you are enrolled in the corresponding Eastern Catholic sui juiris Church. If you’re not Orthodox, I strongly suggest you start visiting Eastern Catholic Churches. It’s quite possible that With the exception of the Maronite Church, the Eastern Catholic Churches were all Orthodox Churches that came into Communion with Rome. In fact, I know Eastern Catholics who consider themselves “Orthodox in Communion with Rome.” Does your RCIA instructor know your feelings on this subject? It might be worth mentioning in private. I suspect you would feel very happy in an Eastern Catholic Church. Then, you could have your cake, and eat it too (i.e. the beauty of the Liturgy and being in Communion with Rome)😃
God Bless you on your Journey. And of course, Pray constantly to discern the Lord’s Will for you.
In Christ, Pakesh
 
Crumpy said:
In the mid 1960’s, when the Mass was changing from Latin to English, the criticism was that the Mass had become so much “protestant” in its form, a lot of people couldn’t get used to it, at first – but then they had no choice.

But, the main complaint previously was that nobody understood the Mass in Latin. It was hard to please everybody.

What upsets me is when the priest uses his discretion to drop out the optional parts of the Mass, like the Confiteor (“I confess”).

What enhances my experience today is good music. I don’t like music that is utilitarian, for example, just to kill time while the priest walks from A to B.

The EWTN Masses have music that is just too morbid sounding. Why does the Mass have to sound like a dirge? Well, for them, everything was handpicked by Mo. Angelica. It is NOT representative of most Masses in the U.S. The music has been “dumbed down” to the abilities of the monks and small choirs that they have.

I was lucky to get a phone call in to EWTN Live with Fr. Mitch and a priest guest who were discussing Gregorian Chant. I asked them why it was so popular, when you can’t even understand the words that they are singing? The priest said you’re NOT supposed to understand the words. DUH, that is so dumb to me.

There’s an old book out, Why Catholics Can’t Sing. I think it explains how little talent there is invested in good liturgy.

In Illinois someplace, the organist actually liked to play the piano more, and he sang with the microphone up to his lips, like he was playing in a lounge. His voice overwhelmed everybody put together.
Click to expand...
Although we are all entitled to our particular opinions, to say that the liturgical music of an EWTN Mass is overly simple, yet a hymn from David Haas typically sung during the Ordinary Form of the Mass is not “dumbed down” is a bewildering statement for me.
 
Crumpy said:
I was lucky to get a phone call in to EWTN Live with Fr. Mitch and a priest guest who were discussing Gregorian Chant. I asked them why it was so popular, when you can’t even understand the words that they are singing? The priest said you’re NOT supposed to understand the words. DUH, that is so dumb to me.
Click to expand...
Actually, the priest has a point. There’s one singer out there, Enya, who has a few chants within her music. Very few understand it, but yet she sells a lot of albums. It’s supposed to be meditative rather than entertaining.
 
We are very blessed in the parish where I play Mass as the organist…the new young priest there does the whole “smells and bells”, chant, etc. The congregation seems a little bit stuck on an occasional Praise/Worship piece (which I mostly loathe); however, slowly but surely they are coming around to Latin chant, more traditional hymns, etc. I am trying also to introduce them to classical sacred organ pieces during the Preparation without being overly high-brow about it.
I am a little bit prejudiced…I do NOT like going to churches that offer a bland version of Mass with a guitar band, no statues, no candles, no crucifix, etc. So that carries over also to my music.
However, I understand that not everyone has my viewpoints on this 😉 !!
 
dnu said:
hello,

Before coming to the Catholic Church, I spent some time around with the Eastern Orthodox. I noticed, that, even in the small mission parish near me, which only had about 40 people, the Divine Liturgy was amazing. The little mission-parish was indistinguishable from a parish of 1000. The mission still used incense, the Priest still faced the altar, there was a Cantor, procession, etc. etc. Even in that small environment, it felt like a truly Holy experience.

Now, at the Catholic parish I’m attending, which has about 300 people at the Mass I attend, there are no incense, there is no cantor, the Priest faces the congregation like we’re chums, children cry non-stop, and it is generally un-holy feeling. It is down right bland. If we had some modern instruments and the Priest would dress in a weather-man suit it would be indistinguishable from most Protestant Churches here in my home town.

Why can the Catholic Church not be more reverent and “holy” during Mass like the Eastern Churches are? I would go home and think about the EO Divine Liturgy for hours after leaving, now, I practically run to my car and go home and try to forget about the awful experience I just had. This is every Sunday. Now that we’re in Lent and the Mass is purposefully solemn it is down right horrible.

So, in short, why is the Catholic Mass so crumby and the E.O. Divine Liturgy so great?

David
Click to expand...
A parish is only what its parishoners and their priest(s) make of it. There is a definite yearning for things that will stimulate a sense of holiness and sacred in our churches among most people, but most don’t even know what that is anymore. When I am at Mass I don’t need a ‘buddy’ priest; I want a priest who takes his vocation seriously. I want a priest who prays and teaches others to pray. I want a priest to show us that, when he consecrates the bread and wine, he ACTUALLY BELIEVES that he has the ability to bring into our midst the body, blood, soul and Divinity of Our Lord.

By the way, the Byzantine Rite of the Catholic Church has retained the sense of holy and sacredness in its Divine Liturgy. You don’t have to leave the Catholic Church. Find a Byzantine Catholic parish, or even Melkite rite church.
 
dnu said:
So, in short, why is the Catholic Mass so crumby and the E.O. Divine Liturgy so great?

David
Click to expand...
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Mass - do not blame this on the Mass!! If anything it is up to your priest how he decides to conduct the Mass, if he uses incense, chant, Latin, etc. The Mass is a truly beautiful thing - it all depends on how a priest decides to present it to you.

If you have issues - talk to him. If that doesn’t work, find another parish.

~Liza
 
dnu said:
Why aren’t all Latin Churches in Latin, ad orientum, and with incense, cantors, etc.? I know a lot of that changed after Vatican II, why the changes?
Click to expand...
Hi DNU. You can get your answer to this question if you read the most recent (February) edition of 'Adoremus Bulletin". www.adoremus.org In it is a very good article titled: “The Day the Mass Changed”. In great detail it will very clearly answer your questions.

I too had been Orthodox. but, like so many people have replied, -that what occurs at Mass is -spiritually- anything but bland.
 
dnu said:
hello,Before coming to the Catholic Church, I spent some time around with the Eastern Orthodox.
Why can the Catholic Church not be more reverent and “holy” during Mass like the Eastern Churches are?
So, in short, why is the Catholic Mass so crumby and the E.O. Divine Liturgy so great?

David
Click to expand...
Perhaps you should be at the Eastern Orthodox church since you feel the way you do. God bless you on your journey.

:harp:
 
dnu said:
hello,

Before coming to the Catholic Church, I spent some time around with the Eastern Orthodox. I noticed, that, even in the small mission parish near me, which only had about 40 people, the Divine Liturgy was amazing. The little mission-parish was indistinguishable from a parish of 1000. The mission still used incense, the Priest still faced the altar, there was a Cantor, procession, etc. etc. Even in that small environment, it felt like a truly Holy experience.

Now, at the Catholic parish I’m attending, which has about 300 people at the Mass I attend, there are no incense, there is no cantor, the Priest faces the congregation like we’re chums, children cry non-stop, and it is generally un-holy feeling. It is down right bland. If we had some modern instruments and the Priest would dress in a weather-man suit it would be indistinguishable from most Protestant Churches here in my home town.

Why can the Catholic Church not be more reverent and “holy” during Mass like the Eastern Churches are? I would go home and think about the EO Divine Liturgy for hours after leaving, now, I practically run to my car and go home and try to forget about the awful experience I just had. This is every Sunday. Now that we’re in Lent and the Mass is purposefully solemn it is down right horrible.

So, in short, why is the Catholic Mass so crumby and the E.O. Divine Liturgy so great?

David
Click to expand...
If this is what you experienced, then you are probably in a progressive parish. Try the Latin Mass, I much prefer that than the Vernacular. The Novus Ordo can be beautiful too, when said correctly. Also, the Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy is almost identical (except for some prayers, like the ones for the Pope) to the EO Divine Liturgy. The Anglican Use is also very beautiful and solemn.
 
If the Parish, including the Priests, are putting in garbage, that will be the result. I don’t care whose doing what with what form, what kind of music is being thrown down, what language is being used, what time of day it is, the length of the Mass, it doesn’t matter.

None of that matters. NONE. If the heart isn’t there, if the Faith isn’t there, and if the Parish as a whole (especially the leadership) is putting in garbage heart and garbage Faith…you’re going to get a garbage Mass with a garbage Faith. And above all else if devotion, TRUE devotion, to the Blessed Sacrament is missing…that’s the biggest piece of garbage around.

“Garbage in, garbage out”. And this’ll apply to any/all parishes you visit.
 
dnu said:
hello,

Before coming to the Catholic Church, I spent some time around with the Eastern Orthodox. I noticed, that, even in the small mission parish near me, which only had about 40 people, the Divine Liturgy was amazing. The little mission-parish was indistinguishable from a parish of 1000. The mission still used incense, the Priest still faced the altar, there was a Cantor, procession, etc. etc. Even in that small environment, it felt like a truly Holy experience.

id
Click to expand...
well, compared to the old Latin Mass… i guess you have a point…

but the Mass is still not anything remotely “bland”

all the angels and saints in Heaven participate… so i dont think its… accurate to call it bland, by a long shot…

still i would love to go back to the way things used to be… hate that things have changed… :mad:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top