Why is Catholicism better?

[Contarini]

Firstly, I’d like to apologize if I appeared to accuse you of bias. My only intention was to state that I found your response unsatisfactory and why. Secondly, I’m aware of Thomas Aquinas’s argument for monotheism. Personally, my reasoning for my faith is the sort used for relationships: I have formed fulfilling relationships with my Gods. I don’t see my faith like a business investment.

But wouldn’t you grant that when dealing with entities that surpass our mode of existence (whether only to a limited degree, as with your gods or what we call “angels and demons,” or absolutely as in the case of the One God) it’s fairly hard to know just what one is experiencing? You have a relationship with something–but that may well be shaped by your own imagination and culture in significant ways. Even our relationships with other human beings are shaped in this way, but the fact that other human beings have bodies and minds like our own gives relatively more objectivity to those relationships.

Don’t get me wrong–I think religious experience is very important. But it’s not unmediated or direct. There are multiple explanations for any religious experience.

And even if, in fact, the gods of northern paganism exist in more or less the form you believe they do, that leaves the philosophical question where it started. You can have relationships with all sorts of beings, but they still aren’t what we mean by God. Either God exists, or He doesn’t. He’s not on the same “level” with the gods at all.

The question of the truth of Christianity is a completely different one, because the question of divine revelation is not subject to rational analysis in the same way that the question of God’s existence is. I think there are good reasons to believe that Jesus really is the Incarnation of the Logos, as Christian doctrine claims. But this claim, by its very nature, can’t be conclusively established by reason alone.

Edwin

 

[livingwordunity]

Why the insistence that Christianity/Catholicism has it right?

Because it is right. It’s the only religion that was founded by God himself. And who in history other than Jesus Christ was able to prove he was God by all the miracles he did in front of so many especially allowing himself to die the most extremely torturous death possible and then coming back from the dead the way he did? And his scourging and death on the cross was open and on display for all to see, so there is no way that he could have faked it. Jesus also had at least 11 direct eye witnesses who were all willing to die the most brutal and torturous deaths rather than deny him because they had seen all the miracles firsthand and had become absolutely convinced that Jesus is God and has power over death. He also was the fulfillment of over 300 Old Testament messianic prophecies as follows:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166262&postcount=7
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166273&postcount=8
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166283&postcount=9
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forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166294&postcount=11
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166318&postcount=13

Another thing is that archeologists keep digging up a lot of things that prove that the people and places that had only been mentioned in the Holy Bible were actually real historical people and places. A couple examples off the top of my head are King David and Pontius Pilate who nonbelievers thought didn’t exist until the archeologists dug up the proof.

But I personally didn’t even need any of that to come to believe since my conversion to the Catholic faith from agnosticism had to do with personally experiencing God in my life.

 

[livingwordunity]

By the way, when I said that Catholicism is the only religion that was founded by God himself I meant to include ancient Judaism which Catholics see as being the same religion as ours but at an earlier stage. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism. There is a continuity between the two.

 

[MartinJordan]

By the way, when I said that Catholicism is the only religion that was founded by God himself I meant to include ancient Judaism which Catholics see as being the same religion as ours but at an earlier stage. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism. There is a continuity between the two.

MJ

 

[Lokadottir]

How were you introduced to this faith “northern tradition pagan”? Who passed it down to you and from whence did it come? How do you know that it is “the truth”?

Thank you for your kind question!
So, this is actually a point of embarrassment for me. I became interested in Norse mythology through the movie “Avengers.” However i did not convert for this reason.It only caused me to research the mythos. My conversion was far more significant than a crush on some actor. I made a relationship with Loki during one of the many emotional breakdowns I prone to at the time. I had normally turned to God during those and had always found comfort until that night. I found none until I turned to Loki. This made me realize one of two things: either both were viable, or it was all placebo so it really doesn’t matter.

After that I started researching modern paganism. At first I was very eclectic and I looked at multiple pantheons. I eventually zeroed in on the Norse pantheon where I found myself most at home. I then started nosing around Asatru but I found it too fundamentalist given our lack of resources and more importantly because of the hatred towards Loki and His family. I eventually stumbled on a set of online shrines that had Aesir, Vanir, and Rökkr. (northernpaganism.org/general/index.html) Northern Tradition is more open to personal gnosis and holds personal revelation from the Gods to be just as important as what we know from history.

And how do I know its true?

I don’t. I can’t. That is the reason Catholics and Christians sometimes frustrate me. They remind me of the kid who got upset when there stopped being just one answer in English class. “But am I RIGHT?” “We can’t know.” kid has existential crisis
No one can know for sure what is the truth. So I picked the system of belief that I found truth in and which fulfills my spiritual needs best.

 

[meltzerboy]

Thank you for your kind question!
So, this is actually a point of embarrassment for me. I became interested in Norse mythology through the movie “Avengers.” However i did not convert for this reason.It only caused me to research the mythos. My conversion was far more significant than a crush on some actor. I made a relationship with Loki during one of the many emotional breakdowns I prone to at the time. I had normally turned to God during those and had always found comfort until that night. I found none until I turned to Loki. This made me realize one of two things: either both were viable, or it was all placebo so it really doesn’t matter.

After that I started researching modern paganism. At first I was very eclectic and I looked at multiple pantheons. I eventually zeroed in on the Norse pantheon where I found myself most at home. I then started nosing around Asatru but I found it too fundamentalist given our lack of resources and more importantly because of the hatred towards Loki and His family. I eventually stumbled on a set of online shrines that had Aesir, Vanir, and Rökkr. (northernpaganism.org/general/index.html) Northern Tradition is more open to personal gnosis and holds personal revelation from the Gods to be just as important as what we know from history.

And how do I know its true?

I don’t. I can’t. That is the reason Catholics and Christians sometimes frustrate me. They remind me of the kid who got upset when there stopped being just one answer in English class. “But am I RIGHT?” “We can’t know.” kid has existential crisis
No one can know for sure what is the truth. So I picked the system of belief that I found truth in and which fulfills my spiritual needs best.

Strong conviction or unshakable faith is, for some, equivalent to knowledge. This may result in arrogance, lead to intolerance and disrespect for the faith of others, or, worse still, elicit aggressive or violent behavior toward others who do not share one’s own faith. It is often a very delicate balance to believe deeply in something, especially something so important as one’s faith, and, at the same time, treat others who do not believe as one does with charity, understanding, and kindness. However, the internal conflict that may arise from faith is in no way limited to followers of Catholicism.

 

[JHow]

Strong conviction or unshakable faith is, for some, equivalent to knowledge. This may result in arrogance, lead to intolerance and disrespect for the faith of others, or, worse still, elicit aggressive or violent behavior toward others who do not share one’s own faith. It is often a very delicate balance to believe deeply in something, especially something so important as one’s faith, and, at the same time, treat others who do not believe as one does with charity, understanding, and kindness. However, the internal conflict that may arise from faith is in no way limited to followers of Catholicism.

The tyranny of the apathetic and unbelieving is also well- established, especially in our time.

 

[Lokadottir]

The tyranny of the apathetic and unbelieving is also well- established, especially in our time.

I am NOT apathetic. I love my Gods very fiercely and believe in them deeply. However I cannot put it forth as absolute truth because I have no absolute proof. I therefore respect all other claims on truth even though they do not resonate with me.

I apologize if that seemed heated and perhaps it was slightly. I ask you do not treat my acknowledgment of the uncertain as a lack of faith.

 

[SteveVH]

Thirdly, even accepting the logic that leads to monotheism, why does Christianity/Catholicism, without a doubt, have it right?

Because the fullness of truth was revealed to us by Christ himself, who is the head of the Church he founded and who has sent the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth. If Christ was not who he said he was then we are wrong. It all hinges on Jesus Christ; who he is and what he did.

 

[Skadi]

The leader of Christianity died and rose from the dead. What other group of people claim this?

The bible is full of people rising from the dead, as is folklore around the world.

 

[Lokadottir]

The bible is full of people rising from the dead, as is folklore around the world.

Cult of Osiris springs to my mind.

 

[Skadi]

Cult of Osiris springs to my mind.

One thing that does bug me is how missionary Christians try and make it seam like 1. Christians claim that Jesus rose from the dead is so amazingly unique. and 2. That this imaginary uniqueness somehow proves it happened.

1. The bible has several people rise from the dead and across the world there are many stories of people coming back to life. Even if they arnt true the idea of coming back from the dead isnt unique to Christendom.
2. If I claimed that a large brown narwhal talked to me through my window last night with a message from the flying spaghetti monster that would be a pretty outrageous story wouldnt it be? but just because its out there dosnt make it any more likely to be true. Even if Christianity was the only religion with resurrection stories (which it isnt) that wouldn’t make it any more likely to be true.

 

[Lokadottir]

1. If I claimed that a large brown narwhal talked to me through my window last night with a message from the flying spaghetti monster that would be a pretty outrageous story wouldnt it be? but just because its out there dosnt make it any more likely to be true. Even if Christianity was the only religion with resurrection stories (which it isnt) that wouldn’t make it any more likely to be true.

1. I love you for the whole large brown narwhal thing.
2. I think there is often (not always) a severe fear of death in Christianity.(yes, I know. logical but they aren’t supposed to be) Christians have to have it right to ensure they won’t die.
3. I don’t know how many are well versed in multiple mythologies.

 

[JMJ_coder]

So something that bothers me about Christianity is its monopoly on truth. Can anyone explain how this makes sense. I don’t take issue with you believing its true. I believe my own to be true but I’m also aware it is indeed a faith. I have found it to be true through spiritual experience but that can only apply, logically, for me.
Why the insistence that Christianity/Catholicism has it right?

It seems to me that the two underlying questions are 1) is there only one truth? and 2) why do Christians insist that their faith is the truth to the exclusion of others religions?

Assuming for a moment that there is only one truth (in this case religious truth) it seems quite logical that a Christian would believe their faith is that truth. What logical sense would it be for a person to live and die for something they thought could be a lie? In the same vein I would expect the Muslim, Jew, Hindi, Sikh, Pagan, Atheist, etc. to believe that their respective views were the one and only truth, otherwise would they not be a fraud to themselves and their conscience?

Now, the above assumes that there is but one truth. But, is that true (corny pun intended)? Yes, it is. In logic and mathematics one of the basic axioms is that something cannot be true and false at the same time. For example, 2 + 2 = 4 and 2 + 2 = 5; in standard mathematical operations at least one of those statements must be false (they could also both be false). If you build a normal truth table, as used in mathematical and philosophical logic, you’ll never see true and false = true. Therefore, for any set of non-equal statements where the premises are equivalent, at most one conclusion can be true.

Now, let’s take this and make use of it in a religious context. We could start with the basics such as all that exists is of the natural order - either that is true or false, e.g., if it is false there is a supernatural order. Supposing it is false, then we could eventually move on to a question such as there are no gods, there is a single god, there are a finite number of gods, there are an infinite number of gods. Only one of those can be true. So, you can see we can build on such statements and the end result is that either the truth proclaimed by the Catholic Church is either entirely false, has some true statements and some false statements, or is entirely true. And as we began at the top, it would be foolish for us to stay in the Church if we didn’t actually think it was true.

 

[meltzerboy]

It seems to me that the two underlying questions are 1) is there only one truth? and 2) why do Christians insist that their faith is the truth to the exclusion of others religions?

Assuming for a moment that there is only one truth (in this case religious truth) it seems quite logical that a Christian would believe their faith is that truth. What logical sense would it be for a person to live and die for something they thought could be a lie? In the same vein I would expect the Muslim, Jew, Hindi, Sikh, Pagan, Atheist, etc. to believe that their respective views were the one and only truth, otherwise would they not be a fraud to themselves and their conscience?

Now, the above assumes that there is but one truth. But, is that true (corny pun intended)? Yes, it is. In logic and mathematics one of the basic axioms is that something cannot be true and false at the same time. For example, 2 + 2 = 4 and 2 + 2 = 5; in standard mathematical operations at least one of those statements must be false (they could also both be false). If you build a normal truth table, as used in mathematical and philosophical logic, you’ll never see true and false = true. Therefore, for any set of non-equal statements where the premises are equivalent, at most one conclusion can be true.

Now, let’s take this and make use of it in a religious context. We could start with the basics such as all that exists is of the natural order - either that is true or false, e.g., if it is false there is a supernatural order. Supposing it is false, then we could eventually move on to a question such as there are no gods, there is a single god, there are a finite number of gods, there are an infinite number of gods. Only one of those can be true. So, you can see we can build on such statements and the end result is that either the truth proclaimed by the Catholic Church is either entirely false, has some true statements and some false statements, or is entirely true. And as we began at the top, it would be foolish for us to stay in the Church if we didn’t actually think it was true.

Maybe in mathematics there is only one truth, but this is not so in the arts such as poetry, music, and painting. There are usually diverse interpretations, and when one deals with surrealist poetry, for example, it is not unusual that so-called contradictions can still be coherent, if not reconciled. Even according to biblical exegesis, there can be both literal and figurative layers of meaning which do not cancel one another although they may appear contradictory.

 

[Shelly332]

Hello ladies and gentlemen! I noticed that a previous thread about paganism was closed. Let’s try this again. Let’s see if we can all manage to be big boys and girls and play nice! (To be perfectly clear, this includes myself and all are welcome to call me out if I behave poorly.)
So something that bothers me about Christianity is its monopoly on truth. Can anyone explain how this makes sense. I don’t take issue with you believing its true. I believe my own to be true but I’m also aware it is indeed a faith. I have found it to be true through spiritual experience but that can only apply, logically, for me.
Why the insistence that Christianity/Catholicism has it right?

(To clarify I’m not Wiccan and I have listed my religion specifically you can look it up its not too hard I promise!)

I think your question is too broad. If you ask specific questions or ideas that you have issue with answers might make more sense.
If it were science vs Catholic belief, the big bang theory or the history of the Bible. All these types of questions have specific answers. tackle one belief at a time and it will lead you to more but these far out generalizations are a waste of time.

 

[Lokadottir]

Maybe in mathematics there is only one truth, but this is not so in the arts such as poetry, music, and painting. There are usually diverse interpretations, and when one deals with surrealist poetry, for example, it is not unusual that so-called contradictions can still be coherent, if not reconciled. Even according to biblical exegesis, there can be both literal and figurative layers of meaning which do not cancel one another although they may appear contradictory.

Couldn’t have put it better myself. We are all trying to find truth out of this big cosmic poem. All interpretations that can provide evidence are equal because you can’t prove one over the other.

 

[Contarini]

Couldn’t have put it better myself. We are all trying to find truth out of this big cosmic poem. All interpretations that can provide evidence are equal because you can’t prove one over the other.

That doesn’t make sense. Some evidence is better than other evidence, and some positions have more evidence than others. That’s universally true for anything for which the term “evidence” is relevant at all.

Conclusive proof is not possible, but that doesn’t mean that you just grab something at random or restrict yourself to purely subjective considerations.

Edwin

 

[Peter_Plato]

The bible is full of people rising from the dead, as is folklore around the world.

Actually the Bible is not full of people rising from the dead. Correct me if I am mistaken, but, as far as I can recall, there are only four instances of individuals rising from the dead in the Bible - Jesus, Lazarus and Jairus’ daughter and Elijah raising the widow’s son.

In each case, the actual rising from the dead was not significant in itself but in that the rising served as a powerful sign of endorsement from God, basically, of two persons Elijah and Jesus.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Actually the Bible is not full of people rising from the dead. Correct me if I am mistaken, but, as far as I can recall, there are only four instances of individuals rising from the dead in the Bible - Jesus, Lazarus and Jairus’ daughter and Elijah raising the widow’s son.

In each case, the actual rising from the dead was not significant in itself but in that the rising served as a powerful sign of endorsement from God, basically, of two persons Elijah and Jesus.

Not only that, but did any of those ‘rising from the dead’ cults have their ‘Risee’ die for others? For SINFUL others? I don’t think Osiris said, “oh, my people are sinful. I will become a man like them, die and rise for them, so that they be saved from death and have eternal life. . .” I think Jesus is unique in that. . .