Why is celibacy better?

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Why can celibates get closer to God then married people? Is not love for one’s spouse love for God as well? The Catholic apologetic arguments in defense of honoring Mary can be used in defense of marital spirituality. If honoring Mary honors God, than loving one’s spouse honors God as well. Is there something about the exercise of sexual powers themselves which keeps one from spiritual insights? Yet is not sexual pleasure healthy for the mind and body?
 
Celibacy allows one to give themselves to God with an undivided heart. One who should give the time, talent and treasure which he would have expended in marriage, should give that back to God in service to the Church and to other people.

To the extent that one uses celibacy as a means to give back, one draws closer to God. If one sits around lonley and forlorn all day, chases wealth, etc., then it is probably better for that person to Marry.

Celibacy also requires a greater dependence on God. I can vouch for that.

When God Asks for an Undivided Heart is a good book. It is geared toward priests but is still very good for understadning the topic. It is useful for anyone who finds themself in a postion of voluntary or involuntary celibacy, such as those who are divorced.

-Tim-
 
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life.” [Luke 18:29]
The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”
Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men [ie, by castration]; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” [Matthew 19:10-11]
I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord. [1Cor 7:32-35]
Jesus called attention to the gift of divine light needed to understand the way of voluntary celibacy. Not everyone can understand it, in the sense that not everyone is “able” to grasp its meaning, to accept it, to practice it. This gift of light and decision is only granted to some. It is a privilege granted them for the sake of a greater love. We should not be surprised then if many, who do not understand the value of consecrated celibacy, are not attracted to it, and often are not even able to appreciate it… Faithful to the tradition of the counsels, the Second Vatican Council states that chastity is “the most suitable means by which religious dedicate themselves with undivided heart to the service of God and the works of the apostolate” (PC 12). [Bl. John Paul the Great, http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19941116en.html”]Chastity for the Sake of the Kingdom
(General Audience)]
 
When people conceive children, Original Sin is transmitted (cf. CCC), and thus the suffering and vanity of earthly life is perpetuated (cf. Eccl), thus disease, death and privation lives on. Another soul is cast into the dungeon of the body (cf. St. John of the Cross), the ‘miserable prison of the flesh.’ (cf. St. Francis of Assisi), from which, by the suffering of life and the renouncement of the things of this world (cf. 1 John), it eventually becomes free.

This is why Jesus recommends abstinence and celibacy: “the children of this world marry and are given in marriage, but those considered worthy to attain the resurrection neither marry or are given in marriage.”
 
Why can celibates get closer to God then married people? Is not love for one’s spouse love for God as well? The Catholic apologetic arguments in defense of honoring Mary can be used in defense of marital spirituality. If honoring Mary honors God, than loving one’s spouse honors God as well. Is there something about the exercise of sexual powers themselves which keeps one from spiritual insights? Yet is not sexual pleasure healthy for the mind and body?
Tribalism. I think the celibacy thing is about reducing the natural human instinct of tribalism. When a man or a woman has their OWN IMMEDIATE FAMILY (spouse and kids and grandkids), they tend to be VERY PARTIAL to the well being of those immediate relatives. Some people speak of this instinct as TRIBALISM. Tribes fight against each other. You can even see this in workplaces and schools, in which tight cliques form and the cliques hate and war against each other.

I think celibacy is wise for clergy, monks and nuns.

In the Protestant world, many ministers have to make many decisions based on what will enable them to reap in enough personal monies to pay for their mortgage, kids education, kid’s braces, etc. So they cannot really focus on the well being of the flock they are meant to shepherd. They have to run the church more like a private for-profit business.

But, today, the world is so sex-soaked, that I think it has become really hard to be celibate. Our current sex-soaked culture (TV, movies, magazines, novels, pop music, styles of dress for women, vulgar language, porno all over the Internet) is unprecedented in recorded world history (well, maybe some times in ancient Rome, Greece, were as bad, and maybe Sodom and Gomorrah, were as bad).

So, we do have a problem today with a celibacy requirement for priests.

The answer: Out aw all this sexuality in the media. Just make it illegal. Go back to the laws in place before about 1965.

But I guess most Americans want a sex soaked culture.
 
+JMJ+
Why can celibates get closer to God then married people? Is not love for one’s spouse love for God as well? The Catholic apologetic arguments in defense of honoring Mary can be used in defense of marital spirituality. If honoring Mary honors God, than loving one’s spouse honors God as well. Is there something about the exercise of sexual powers themselves which keeps one from spiritual insights? Yet is not sexual pleasure healthy for the mind and body?
Celibacy is so good because marriage and sex is so good! Remember that Marriage is a Sacrament of the Catholic Church, therefore it is absurd for anyone to think that the Catholic Church is all against sex and its pleasures. Therefore, if there is anything that can be better than sex and marriage in the eyes of the Church, it is to forego sex and marriage altogether for the greater glory of God. It is the sacrifice of celibacy, not celibacy per se, that is so good in the eyes of God.
 
+JMJ+

Celibacy is so good because marriage and sex is so good! Remember that Marriage is a Sacrament of the Catholic Church, therefore it is absurd for anyone to think that the Catholic Church is all against sex and its pleasures. Therefore, if there is anything that can be better than sex and marriage in the eyes of the Church, it is to forego sex and marriage altogether for the greater glory of God. It is the sacrifice of celibacy, not celibacy per se, that is so good in the eyes of God.
Ya!! 👍
 
+JMJ+

Celibacy is so good because marriage and sex is so good! Remember that Marriage is a Sacrament of the Catholic Church, therefore it is absurd for anyone to think that the Catholic Church is all against sex and its pleasures. Therefore, if there is anything that can be better than sex and marriage in the eyes of the Church, it is to forego sex and marriage altogether for the greater glory of God. It is the sacrifice of celibacy, not celibacy per se, that is so good in the eyes of God.
This is a common error, widespread in the modern Church, which frequently attempt to deny “the evil of carnal concupiscence from which man who is born therefrom contracts original sin.” (St. Augustine)

If sex transmits Original Sin, how could it possibly be good? From Original Sin arises the great suffering of life, and indeed, the whole need for redemption and atonement. “For when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and sin bringeth forth its own child, which is death.”

Celibacy spares the souls of your potential children the vast burden of Original Sin, and the consequence of a life spent atoning for it in the pain of living.

Be being celibate- you are not spreading the disease of Original Sin, your are not perpetuated the suffering of which the flesh is heir.
 
+JMJ+
This is a common error, widespread in the modern Church, which frequently attempt to deny “the evil of carnal concupiscence from which man who is born therefrom contracts original sin.” (St. Augustine)
Ah, Gnosticism.

Maybe you should quote the whole thing before you spread your lies. Here is the whole section from which you posted (bolded) and some things you should consider (in italics):

Our new heretics, my dearest son Valerius, who maintain that infants born in the flesh have no need of that medicine of Christ whereby sins are healed, are constantly affirming, in their excessive hatred of us, that we condemn marriage and that divine procedure by which God creates human beings by means of men and women, inasmuch as we assert that they who are born of such a union contract that original sin of which the apostle says, “By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for in him all sinned;” and because we do not deny, that of whatever kind of parents they are born, they are still under the devil’s dominion, unless they be born again in Christ, and by His grace be removed from the power of darkness and translated into His kingdom, (Colossians 1:15) who willed not to be born from the same union of the two sexes. Because, then, we affirm this doctrine, which is contained in the oldest and unvarying rule of the catholic faith, these propounders of the novel and perverse dogma, who assert that there is no sin in infants to be washed away in the laver of regeneration, (Titus 3:5) in their unbelief or ignorance calumniate us, as if we condemned marriage, and as if we asserted to be the devil’s work what is God’s own work— the human being which is born of marriage. Nor do they reflect that the good of marriage is no more impeachable on account of the original evil which is derived therefrom, than the evil of adultery and fornication is excusable on account of the natural good which is born of them. For as sin is the work of the devil, from whencesoever contracted by infants; so man is the work of God, from whencesoever born.* Our purpose, therefore, in this book, so far as the Lord vouchsafes us in His help, is to distinguish between** the evil of carnal concupiscence from which man who is born therefrom contracts original sin**, and the good of marriage.* For there would have been none of this shame-producing concupiscence, which is impudently praised by impudent men, if man had not previously sinned; while as to marriage, it would still have existed even if no man had sinned, since the procreation of children in the body that belonged to that life would have been effected without that malady which in “the body of this death” (Romans 7:24) cannot be separated from the process of procreation.

On Marriage and Concupiscence (Book I)

:tsktsk:
 
+JMJ+

Ah, Gnosticism.

Maybe you should quote the whole thing before you spread your lies. Here is the whole section from which you posted (bolded) and some things you should consider (in italics):

Our new heretics, my dearest son Valerius, who maintain that infants born in the flesh have no need of that medicine of Christ whereby sins are healed, are constantly affirming, in their excessive hatred of us, that we condemn marriage and that divine procedure by which God creates human beings by means of men and women, inasmuch as we assert that they who are born of such a union contract that original sin of which the apostle says, “By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for in him all sinned;” and because we do not deny, that of whatever kind of parents they are born, they are still under the devil’s dominion, unless they be born again in Christ, and by His grace be removed from the power of darkness and translated into His kingdom, (Colossians 1:15) who willed not to be born from the same union of the two sexes. Because, then, we affirm this doctrine, which is contained in the oldest and unvarying rule of the catholic faith, these propounders of the novel and perverse dogma, who assert that there is no sin in infants to be washed away in the laver of regeneration, (Titus 3:5) in their unbelief or ignorance calumniate us, as if we condemned marriage, and as if we asserted to be the devil’s work what is God’s own work— the human being which is born of marriage. Nor do they reflect that the good of marriage is no more impeachable on account of the original evil which is derived therefrom, than the evil of adultery and fornication is excusable on account of the natural good which is born of them. For as sin is the work of the devil, from whencesoever contracted by infants; so man is the work of God, from whencesoever born.* Our purpose, therefore, in this book, so far as the Lord vouchsafes us in His help, is to distinguish between** the evil of carnal concupiscence from which man who is born therefrom contracts original sin***, and the good of marriage. For there would have been none of this shame-producing concupiscence, which is impudently praised by impudent men, if man had not previously sinned; while as to marriage, it would still have existed even if no man had sinned, since the procreation of children in the body that belonged to that life would have been effected without that malady which in “the body of this death” (Romans 7:24) cannot be separated from the process of procreation.

On Marriage and Concupiscence (Book I)

:tsktsk:
Yes, Augustine is contradicting Pelagians- those who say the children are born without Original Sin. Are you a Pelagian?
 
+JMJ+
Yes, Augustine is contradicting Pelagians- those who say the children are born without Original Sin. Are you a Pelagian?
Nope. But then, twisting St Augustine’s message, and also of the Gospel’s, to suit your own understanding is a sin. Please stop doing that.
 
When people conceive children, Original Sin is transmitted (cf. CCC), and thus the suffering and vanity of earthly life is perpetuated (cf. Eccl), thus disease, death and privation lives on. Another soul is cast into the dungeon of the body (cf. St. John of the Cross), the ‘miserable prison of the flesh.’ (cf. St. Francis of Assisi), from which, by the suffering of life and the renouncement of the things of this world (cf. 1 John), it eventually becomes free.

This is why Jesus recommends abstinence and celibacy: “the children of this world marry and are given in marriage, but those considered worthy to attain the resurrection neither marry or are given in marriage.”
This is a very dark view of marriage, which Christ elevated to a sacrament, let us not forget. Original sin is overcome, and every one of those children born (and unborn) is infinitely loved by God, and invited to share in his divine life for eternity.
 
+JMJ+
This is a very dark view of marriage, which Christ elevated to a sacrament, let us not forget. Original sin is overcome, and every one of those children born (and unborn) is infinitely loved by God, and invited to share in his divine life for eternity.
Not only that, but Qoeleth has twisted the words of Jesus Himself to suit his own understanding.

What Qoeleth quoted there was from Luke 20:34-35, and reading it as it is it does look like Jesus is condemning marriage. But of course that passage was taken absolutely out of context. Here I now present the whole relevant passage, with the taken-out-of-context passage in red:
Code:
  27Now there came to Him some of the Sadducees (who say that there is no resurrection), 28and they questioned Him, saying, “Teacher, Moses wrote for us that IF A MAN’S BROTHER DIES, having a wife, AND HE IS CHILDLESS, HIS BROTHER SHOULD MARRY THE WIFE AND RAISE UP CHILDREN TO HIS BROTHER. 29“Now there were seven brothers; and the first took a wife and died childless; 30and the second 31and the third married her; and in the same way all seven died, leaving no children. 32“Finally the woman died also. 33“In the resurrection therefore, which one’s wife will she be? For all seven had married her.”

  34Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 37“But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB. 38“Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him.” 39Some of the scribes answered and said, “Teacher, You have spoken well.” 40For they did not have courage to question Him any longer about anything.
Luke 20:27-40

Qoeleth, what you have done is very reprehensible in my eyes and heart as a lover of Jesus Christ. Go and confess your sin as soon as possible, for you have done a great evil in twisting the Words of God Himself.
 
Why can celibates get closer to God then married people? Is not love for one’s spouse love for God as well? The Catholic apologetic arguments in defense of honoring Mary can be used in defense of marital spirituality. If honoring Mary honors God, than loving one’s spouse honors God as well. Is there something about the exercise of sexual powers themselves which keeps one from spiritual insights? Yet is not sexual pleasure healthy for the mind and body?
Any attachment to the world is at least potentially unhealthy.

I strongly caution everyone in this thread to avoid taking too seriously the words of Qoeleth, who has repeatedly articulated and defended the damnable heresy of gnosticism.
 
+JMJ+
I strongly caution everyone in this thread to avoid taking too seriously the words of Qoeleth, who has repeatedly articulated and defended the damnable heresy of gnosticism.
One look at his posts and I knew it! :mad: Thank you for confirming it for me.
 
Any attachment to the world is at least potentially unhealthy.

I strongly caution everyone in this thread to avoid taking too seriously the words of Qoeleth, who has repeatedly articulated and defended the damnable heresy of gnosticism.
Some people seem to be upset, because I quote the words of the saints, scripture and Christ Himself. Perhaps, just perhaps, it is you who are twisting them. Do you consider John of the Cross and St. Francis of Assisi to be heretics? Maybe you consider John the Evangelist to be a gnostic? What about St. Augustine?

“Therefore, if I were to ask any good Christian who has a wife, and even though he may still be having children by her, whether he would like to have his wife in that kingdom; mindful in any case of the promises of God, and of that life where this incorruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality; though at present hesitating from the greatness, or at least from a certain degree of love, he would reply with execration that he is strongly averse to it. Were I to ask him again, whether he would like his wife to live with him there, after the resurrection, when she had undergone that angelic change which is promised to the saints, he would reply that he desired this as strongly as he reprobated the other. Thus a good Christian is found to love in one and the same woman the creature of God, whom he desires to be transformed and renewed; but to hate the corruptible and mortal conjugal connection and sexual intercourse: i.e. to love in her what is characteristic of a human being, to hate what belongs to her as a wife. . . . It is necessary, therefore, that the disciple of Christ should hate these things which pass away, in those whom he desires along with himself to reach those things which shall for ever remain; and that he should the more hate these things in them, the more he loves themselves.”[/INDENT]

It seems to typical of some modern Catholics to call anything which does not aggressively affirm the World, the Flesh as gnostic, thereby contradicting the long standing beliefs of the Church.

I say it is better to be celibate and not to have children, and that Original Sin is transmitted by sex, and that the suffering of life is a consequence of the transmission of the Original Sin. This is the teaching of the Church.
 
I say it is better to be celibate and not to have children, and that Original Sin is transmitted by sex, and that the suffering of life is a consequence of the transmission of the Original Sin. This is the teaching of the Church.
Does the Church teach that it is better never to have been conceived than to be born, suffer and eventually spend eternity with God?

Do you believe it would have been better if you had never been conceived?
 
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