Why is CIH so popular?

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oneGODoneCHURCH said:
How is it any more out of date than any thing else Pope Paul or an earlier Pope was stated? Given that the same concerns are still being raised by our current Pope.
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Because it is talking about the dangers of Episcopal Conferences with is not longer the case. Which was defending a previous post used to discount the start of CIH because it came from the “bottom of the Ladder” .
 
FAB said:
Because it is talking about the dangers of Episcopal Conferences with is not longer the case. Which was defending a previous post used to discount the start of CIH because it came from the “bottom of the Ladder” .
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Are we reading the same quote?? Where does that quote say anything about the dangers of Episcopal Conferences?

He said that a few Episcopal Conferences (we can guess the US and Canada) and a few individual bishops had requested a change from COTT to CIH. The danger referred to is to the danger that arises from such a change: **“the danger of a loss of reverence for the August sacrament of the altar, of profanation, of adulterating the true doctrine.”
**
It may not have come from the bottom of the ladder but it certainly didn’t come from the top, ladder being:
Pope
the various congregations
conference of bishops
individual bishops
priests
laity.
 
FAB said:
You do know that Church works under the principal of collegiality VII, so conferences and bishops are not some fringe. Your quote is out of date
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Sorry, but “principal of collegiality VII” predated Memoriale Domini.
 
FAB said:
Because it is talking about the dangers of Episcopal Conferences with is not longer the case. Which was defending a previous post used to discount the start of CIH because it came from the “bottom of the Ladder” .
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The current practice started as an unauthorized novelty. Done before Rome was even asked for permission.

I don’t care if you like the term “bottom of the ladder” or not. Even if it’s a bad choice of words on my part it doesn’t change the fact that an individual Bishop, or handful, has no right to change the rubrics at will with no permission from Rome.

The Mass, either form, is codified for a reason.

At any rate, until someone provided a document abrogating Church teaching on the matter, I’ve said all I can. An indult granting permission to stray from the norm is not teaching, nor a rejection by the Church of it.
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
How is it any more out of date than any thing else Pope Paul or an earlier Pope was stated? Given that the same concerns are still being raised by our current Pope.
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Phemie said:
Are we reading the same quote?? Where does that quote say anything about the dangers of Episcopal Conferences?

He said that a few Episcopal Conferences (we can guess the US and Canada) and a few individual bishops had requested a change from COTT to CIH. The danger referred to is to the danger that arises from such a change: **“the danger of a loss of reverence for the August sacrament of the altar, of profanation, of adulterating the true doctrine.”
**
It may not have come from the bottom of the ladder but it certainly didn’t come from the top, ladder being:
Pope
the various congregations
conference of bishops
individual bishops
priests
laity.
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Thank you 🙂
 
At_Trent said:
The current practice started as an unauthorized novelty. Done before Rome was even asked for permission.

I don’t care if you like the term “bottom of the ladder” or not. Even if it’s a bad choice of words on my part it doesn’t change the fact that an individual Bishop, or handful, has no right to change the rubrics at will with no permission from Rome.

The Mass, either form, is codified for a reason.

At any rate, until someone provided a document abrogating Church teaching on the matter, I’ve said all I can. An indult granting permission to stray from the norm is not teaching, nor a rejection by the Church of it.
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So please explain if such is the case, why are EMHCs and COTH allowed? It seems the Church is allowing open violation of her own teaching.
 
Newbie2 said:
So please explain if such is the case, why are EMHCs and COTH allowed? It seems the Church is allowing open violation of her own teaching.
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Bingo 🙂

It seems that way. But Papa and his posse seem to be working on it 🙂
 
At_Trent said:
let’s try this again.

An indult is not a teaching.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but there is a difference between Communion in the hand and EMHCs.

The first is allowed by indult, an indult that could be rescinded just as the one allowing EMHCs to purify the vessels was.

EMHCs, OTOH, are allowed by canon law. True, canon law could be changed, but they can not be said to be there by indult.
 
Phemie said:
Are we reading the same quote?? Where does that quote say anything about the dangers of Episcopal Conferences?

He said that a few Episcopal Conferences (we can guess the US and Canada) and a few individual bishops had requested a change from COTT to CIH. The danger referred to is to the danger that arises from such a change: **“the danger of a loss of reverence for the August sacrament of the altar, of profanation, of adulterating the true doctrine.”
**
It may not have come from the bottom of the ladder but it certainly didn’t come from the top, ladder being:
Pope
the various congregations
conference of bishops
individual bishops
priests
laity.
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When therefore a small number of episcopal conferences and some
individual bishops asked that the practice of placing the
consecrated hosts in the people’s hands be permitted in their
territories
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Apparently these are bottom of the ladder.
 
At_Trent said:
Sorry, but “principal of collegiality VII” predated Memoriale Domini.
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Perhaps, but it is specifically spelled out in the VII documents as a driving principle of Church practice. Which means that Episcopal Confereneces are not on the bottom of the ladder but an intrical part of the Magisteriums work.
 
At_Trent said:
The current practice started as an unauthorized novelty. Done before Rome was even asked for permission.

I don’t care if you like the term “bottom of the ladder” or not. Even if it’s a bad choice of words on my part it doesn’t change the fact that an individual Bishop, or handful, has no right to change the rubrics at will with no permission from Rome.

The Mass, either form, is codified for a reason.

At any rate, until someone provided a document abrogating Church teaching on the matter, I’ve said all I can. An indult granting permission to stray from the norm is not teaching, nor a rejection by the Church of it.
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This is not the first change or movement that started from a small group outside of Rome. Most great movements in the Church in fact did start someplace else. So trying to dismiss the practice for that reason still doesn’t make your aurgument. Rome is often playing catch up.
 
FAB said:
Perhaps, but it is specifically spelled out in the VII documents as a driving principle of Church practice. Which means that Episcopal Confereneces are not on the bottom of the ladder but an intrical part of the Magisteriums work.
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FAB said:
This is not the first change or movement that started from a small group outside of Rome. Most great movements in the Church in fact did start someplace else. So trying to dismiss the practice for that reason still doesn’t make your aurgument. Rome is often playing catch up.
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See my sig … perhaps Rome is catching up

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
At_Trent said:
I’ve never seen the canon law on it 🤷

Got a link ?
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Can. 230§3. When the need of the Church warrants it and ministers are lacking, lay persons, even if they are not lectors or acolytes, can also supply certain of their duties, namely, to exercise the ministry of the word, to preside offer liturgical prayers, to confer baptism, and to distribute Holy Communion, according to the prescripts of the law.
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Phemie said:
Can. 230§3. When the need of the Church warrants it and ministers are lacking, lay persons, even if they are not lectors or acolytes, can also supply certain of their duties, namely, to exercise the ministry of the word, to preside offer liturgical prayers, to confer baptism, and to distribute Holy Communion, according to the prescripts of the law.
Click to expand...
Thanks.
 
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