“If anyone says that the one, true God, our creator and lord, cannot be known with certainty from the things that have been made, by the natural light of human reason: let him be anathema.”
I did not claim that the level is “praiseworthy”, I said that it is not a big deal. The knowledge I was dispensing did not diminish my knowledge. I never aspired to be a saint, and never gave more than I could easily afford.
I sure hope that I am better than the God as depicted in the Bible and in your accounts. Not the God as he (maybe) exists, but the one you guys show as the true portrait of God.
Matt 10, 14-15: ”Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words - go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet. Amen, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.”
It is free in one sense, and yet it costs us everything. For in order to receive it, we must give up all our selfishness. For to receive a selfless gift, we must participate in being selfless!
I hope you “buy” my clarification above.
What malice you have, and can’t even see it! Of course He doesn’t selfishly need glory from others. But yes, He can expect that the gifts He gives produce their intended effect without being subject to the accusation of being insufficient.
Sir, you classify yourself as trash, to God, when you refuse to do His Will. I for one hope you will not remain marked for the trash bin. But it is up to you and whether you will serve our Creator.
Well, these are very good questions, and I will try to answer them to the best of my abilities, and risk that you will not like my answer.
A bit convoluted, but it sure looks like an unqualified “yes” to me. Why can’t you just say it? Are you afraid of something?
It amazes me Hitetlen, what you know about God, what is possible or impossible, or what His motives are, etc.
As time goes by, I learn more about you from your posts. While your behavior is Christian, your posts reveal an inner arrogance that sometimes manifest itself in the form of a hypocritical statement or a lie. Look at the next quote below…
You have on occasion implied that I was psycoanalyzing you. I would find it interesting if you would ask a psychologist “How many people never lie?” Until then, I will hold off on this for a few days. I need to do some homework.
I don’t believe you are trying to deceive any one. But you may be deceiving yourself. Again, I have homework to do on this.
In a nutshell, God should give you everything, you should receive everything, and without even gratitude because if there was any “required” reciprocation on your part, what He gives you would not be free or selfless. Even if that means that you do not seek anything from Him, nor ask anything of Him. Nor do you feel you need to be open to it.
I mentioned the master-servant relationship. You replied that this was an antiquated concept that I needed to get over. I then gave you several similar word groups that demonstrate the principal of one person having authority over another which is a principal that has always been in effect, not just in antiquity. Now look at your assinine reply…
Ok, you win. I am certainly guilty of saying “white lies”. When my mother was close to death, I definitely “lied” and told her that she will get better. That is true, but in my eyes it is not a real lie, though you may argue that technically it is. I would not argue. But I never lied to get myself out of trouble or to gain unfair advantage, I learned that when I was about 8 years old.
That is highly unlikely, though I am sure we are all able to deceive ourselves. I have gave exams to literally thousands of people, and learned to evaluate others, and myself.
Don’t. You cannot understand me, and maybe I cannot understand you.
Ok, this whle post seems like a very honest response from you.
Ok, I asked my 10-year old these very questions. Let’s see his answers.
I agree that there is plenty of imperfection - in men. It is obvious that “if there is a God”, He is allowing it to happen. Of course, if there is no God, then you have the problem of explaining the good things that are happening to people…
A few questions:
Try telling that to an infant who refuses to swallow the strained beets. Or even the little boy who complains about the coleslaw.
If someone “swallows” this teaching, it is hard to break the “vicious circle”? In other words, if someone accepts and believes, then it is hard for them to sin. By your very observation, few there are who are not doing evil in the world. The fact is, there are few who have swallowed it totally, and have trouble staying in the “circle”.
On the surface, it makes sense. But if you think about it, the same could be said of any government or family structure etc. People are usually passive about those things until they are directly affected. And even then, it might be in the form of a ineffective complaint. That happens in families, cities, and countries. Most of these people, if given the chance, would pefer better circumstances, but would resist if it means changing their way of life they have become accustomed to.
But it makes sense and is better to blame ourselves for what we know we fall short in, than to blame someone else for them.
Hitetlen, now you see why Calvinism is not true Christianity. Luther, Calvin, and others taught that we are incapable of doing any good whatsoever. That is not totally true, since even the most evil person is capable of doing natural good, and the Catholic Church teaches this.
It cannot be verified before receiving it, except by believing the testimony of others. In the same way, a person with his eyes closed will not see anything unless he opens them first. For him to say “I will not open my eyes unless you first prove to me that it is there” is unreasonable.
Question for you: how can a blob of cells and chemical reactions “despise” anything? How could it even admire anything? Furthermore, what makes it able to choose whether to despise or admire? It seems claer to me that there is plenty that is beyond our physical nature that we are somehow able to choose and manifest within ourselves. You are glorifying the spirit of aversion.
Correct.
Yes to: be humble, never trust yourself, always be aware of your shortcomings
If someone believes there is one God - and it is reasonable and sensible to do so - then it follows that God must be unshakable and perfect. So we must never attribute anything bad or wrong to God, because it would redound back to us His creature. In other words, to claim God could make a mistake is to condemn ourselves, for God made us and our world, so that if He made a mistake, then we won’t last long. Even if He made a mistake, it would not make us better than Him, for we would be subject to the “mistake” He made.
Yes, I think you did try to be honest about your thoughts and feelings.
I heard that there was a case of a leper whose face was restored, including a missing nose etc. There were said to be photographs before and after.
Thank you. I appreciate it, I really do.
I am very glad you told me that you already explained these things to him, otherwise I would have been suspicious, since those answers usually would be improbable (next to impossible) for a 10 years old. Those answers are adult answers.
Not really. I think that most people are loving and good natured, it is a valuable evolutionary trait. Those who are sociopaths, usually don’t propagate ther genes, though this is a very inadequate and overly simplistic answer, I admit.
Ah, but those poor programmers are unable to do things correctly the first time (lack of omnipotence). If they could, I assure you, they would. Indeed I do complain, that God did not make us “better”. Here is a simple reasoning: our free will would not be infringed upon, if we all had a built-in desire to do “good” and built-in aversion to to do “bad” things. It would not make us perfect, but it sure would improve on our relationships.