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PetraG
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No, what can exist is oblivious presumption, which is a terrible waste of a life meant for virtue.
Why is everyone obsessed with Hell?
- Thread starter Tis_Bearself
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IdaCatholic
Guest
I think it is more prevalent on here than in general society, or the General Church. But I don’t think it rises to the level of obsession. One should be VERY concerned about hell. It is real. Jesus spends a large amount of time and parables on it. So I think there should be a real concern. Mostly on here what I see is people trying to either see how little they can suffer or commit to God without going to hell, or people who focus on the punishment more than the virtue of holiness or heaven.
People on here should be asking “How can I be a saint?” not “Will I go to hell?” But I suppose like all children we seek to avoid the punishment rather than seeking the will and approval and love or our parents.
Personally, I don’t think hell is talked about enough, or even understood by a great many in the Church, in the World and on the Forums.
I am glad this Pope does not shy away from the concept of hell and the devil.
People on here should be asking “How can I be a saint?” not “Will I go to hell?” But I suppose like all children we seek to avoid the punishment rather than seeking the will and approval and love or our parents.
Personally, I don’t think hell is talked about enough, or even understood by a great many in the Church, in the World and on the Forums.
I am glad this Pope does not shy away from the concept of hell and the devil.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Years ago I read the book, “Teacher Man,” by Frank McCourt.
Frank, and Irish Catholic, but not a devote one, took a cruise to his homeland Ireland.
While on the ship, he met a evangelical Christian, who told Frank how he read his Bible and prayed often. He shared how he was saved through Jesus Christ. Frank had no doubt about the man’s sincerity.
One night, Frank was sitting on deck and he happen to notice the Christian standing at the rail of the ship, looking up at the stars, while holding his Bible.
Frank thought to himself, “now if this ship were suddenly start sinking, this Christian would be singing Divine Praises to God. Meanwhile, myself as a Catholic, would’ve been running around the ship looking for a priest to give me the Last Rites.”
This is what Catholicism has taught many of us Catholics over the past couple of centuries.
There is no hope, only the threat of eternal punishment because we didn’t get to confession before we died.
I experienced a different God when Jesus revealed himself to me. His love transcended all the prejudice, hatred and fears I had. It was joy beyond anything I ever experienced. That was 43 years ago. I never looked back.
Jim
Frank, and Irish Catholic, but not a devote one, took a cruise to his homeland Ireland.
While on the ship, he met a evangelical Christian, who told Frank how he read his Bible and prayed often. He shared how he was saved through Jesus Christ. Frank had no doubt about the man’s sincerity.
One night, Frank was sitting on deck and he happen to notice the Christian standing at the rail of the ship, looking up at the stars, while holding his Bible.
Frank thought to himself, “now if this ship were suddenly start sinking, this Christian would be singing Divine Praises to God. Meanwhile, myself as a Catholic, would’ve been running around the ship looking for a priest to give me the Last Rites.”
This is what Catholicism has taught many of us Catholics over the past couple of centuries.
There is no hope, only the threat of eternal punishment because we didn’t get to confession before we died.
I experienced a different God when Jesus revealed himself to me. His love transcended all the prejudice, hatred and fears I had. It was joy beyond anything I ever experienced. That was 43 years ago. I never looked back.
Jim
Niblo
Patron
Well said, Father!
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CelticWarlord
Guest
I feel the same way and would cease my contributions to the threads as being repetitive if not for the idea that some of the questioners are new. But I agree, it seems to be an unhealthy obsession and reflects fear and doubt that could be easily dismissed with a bit of research.
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ForeverLearn
Guest
Throughout the majority of human history and even for a large number of people today, avoiding bad is the primary driver over seeking good, because most of the time, it is essentially the only option.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
Everyone’s experiences are different, but I can say that it was completely the reverse for me. I worried about my salvation frequently as an evangelical Protestant, because the whole thing hinged on a subjective experience of accepting Jesus into your heart and making sure you weren’t working for your salvation and were only trusting in Jesus; and if you didn’t feel assurance that you were saved, you might not be. There were sermons to this effect all the time; it was not just me overthinking in my head. Exhausting. (Not saying this is all Protestants, but in my case at least it had much to do with the Baptist and evangelical environment in which I was raised.)
As a Catholic, I don’t worry about it too much precisely because I know now that it doesn’t depend on a subjective experience and because I know that I can go to the wonderful sacrament of Reconciliation and know that I am forgiven, and of course receive Christ in the Eucharist every Sunday or even more often. Not that we want to take a casual approach to our salvation by any means, but God’s mercy and grace are made tangible in the sacraments, and to me that has made all the difference.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
This is a really good point. “Most of you guys are going to a place where you’ll suffer eternally from fire and worms” isn’t exactly “good news”. Obviously Jesus said quite a few other things.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
These Catholics, including Frank McCourt, must have grown up in miserable families and environments. I seem to recall Frank’s upbringing was quite bleak from what he wrote in his books.
My mother’s Catholic family was nothing like that. They were a happy bunch and trusted in Jesus and Mary quite a bit, though they were big on following the Catholic rules.
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mrsdizzyd
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Same for me. I am so much more at ease as a Catholic. I feel like I actually have guidance on how to grow in holiness.
As for the OP, I think the obsession is just a part of the nature of this forum. People come here for answers to questions that are plaguing them. It is very easy to despair about your salvation if you haven’t been well formed. Sadly, solid catechesis is lacking in too many places.
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Lea101
Guest
For starters, these two things aren’t mutually exclusive attitudes most of the time.
Secondly, the fact that most of us are going to hell is a pretty sobering fact. I wish I was more worried about that.
I don’t know about the general group of protestants but it’s probably an inevitable part of the Catholic Church. We are called Church Militant - we are going through spiritual warfare.
We don’t just rely on faith without good deeds. You get the point.
For most people, it’s easy to commit a mortal sin once tempted enough. We all see these threads. For others, it’s somehow incredibly difficult (good for them, really).
Compare this to non denominational Christians. They believe that their belief is all they need. And they’re usually so so joyful that many sin all they want, knowing that they’ll be saved. Their services are always a joyous celebration. Almost like a concert. Our mass is always more reverent and sobering. To the point where any new type of instrument being played will upset someone enough for them to write a thread on CAF lol.
I think it’s pretty much engrained in the Church, really.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
This is not the case of the non-denominational Christians I know. They do not run around sinning willy-nilly going “We’re saved anyway so we might as well do what we want.” Many of them are from other Protestant churches like Baptist and left because they didn’t like the new minister or something. They still have whatever view they had at the last church they attended, for the most part.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
So, what I’m getting from this is that people are obsessed with Hell because a lot of people have some fear or thought that they personally might end up there.
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ProdglArchitect
Guest
I focus on Hell because, thus far, it seems to be the only thing that has enough umph to motivate me to stop sinning.
I recognize that it’s not the ideal, but if it works it works. Hopefully one day I’ll move to where I avoid sinning purely for love of God, but for now I’ll take what works.
That being said, I also believe that it’s a reaction to the utter lack of belief in Hell we see among secularists and even many of our Protestant brothers and sisters. I have family members who just think everyone that’s not Evil™ (aka, not Hitler) is going to go to Heaven, and so they never stop to really consider their salvation or the state of their souls. (Of course, many of these same people demonize anyone they view as intolerant, so…)
We need to focus on Hell, because we need to get back to the point that people understand it as a real possibility.
I recognize that it’s not the ideal, but if it works it works. Hopefully one day I’ll move to where I avoid sinning purely for love of God, but for now I’ll take what works.
That being said, I also believe that it’s a reaction to the utter lack of belief in Hell we see among secularists and even many of our Protestant brothers and sisters. I have family members who just think everyone that’s not Evil™ (aka, not Hitler) is going to go to Heaven, and so they never stop to really consider their salvation or the state of their souls. (Of course, many of these same people demonize anyone they view as intolerant, so…)
We need to focus on Hell, because we need to get back to the point that people understand it as a real possibility.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
This is also a good point. I had a friend recently tell me that the only thing keeping him from killing himself was fear of Hell. So, it’s a useful concept for him in that it keeps him from going farther down the path with suicidal thoughts.
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PetraG
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A good many of posters admit to having obsessive-compulsive issues they’re coping with. The internet is where a lot of people go with every sort of thing they want to talk about when they’ve worn out their actual friends, relatives and acquaintances.
It is in our nature as creatures to make a greater exertion to avoid something we fear than to achieve something that is a good we’ve never seen that is somewhat greater than we are currently enjoying.
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mrsdizzyd
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That is very true. We also have a fair number of people who suffer from anxiety and depression. These brain health issues can lead to despair.
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tgGodsway
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Certain Protestant circles as well, have a reputation for having an obsession with the threat of hell. All of it is linked to a theology that places people in jeopardy of losing their salvation. This subject is not just a Catholic issue, it is a theological issue which became the thrust of the protestant reformation.
However, many protestants, over hundreds of years, have drifted back toward the catholic view. Today, most of them side with the CC on this issue.
However, many protestants, over hundreds of years, have drifted back toward the catholic view. Today, most of them side with the CC on this issue.
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on_the_hill
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Because people need guardrails in life. The more distant the end, the more abstract the outcome, the more direction and boundaries we need. Hell can be thought of as a very definite outcome.
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on_the_hill
Guest
I’d be looking to see if God provided any lifeboats.
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