Why is God's Silent?

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HAve any of you atheist really asked God to talk to you, in the manner that you want ? I seriously doubt you really want to hear what He has to say. ASk repeatedly with a humble and contrite heart and just a little bit of faith. Maybe then He would answer you, IF He does not knock you off your silly little keesters instead.

Even IF you heard God now, you would not recognize His voice, odds are you would chalk it off to some delusion or figment of your imagination.

The folks who really have heard God, Moses, Elijah, Jesus, St PAul and others get the message loud and clear, they become saints, prophets, NOT street preachers or charlatans.
 
Pope Francis:

“Finding God in all things is not an ‘empirical eureka.’ When we desire to encounter God, we would like to verify him immediately by an empirical method. But you cannot meet God this way. God is found in the gentle breeze perceived by Elijah. The senses that find God are the ones St. Ignatius called spiritual senses. Ignatius asks us to open our spiritual sensitivity to encounter God beyond a purely empirical approach. A contemplative attitude is necessary: it is the feeling that you are moving along the good path of understanding and affection toward things and situations. Profound peace, spiritual consolation, love of God and love of all things in God—this is the sign that you are on this right path.” - americamagazine.org/pope-interview
👍 I share your appreciation of the Pope’s wisdom. 🙂
 
Jesus quoted Isaiah:
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? Who will go for us?” “Here I am,” I said; “send me!” And he replied: Go and say to this people: Listen carefully, but do not understand! Look intently, but do not perceive! Make the heart of this people sluggish, dull their ears and close their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and their heart understand, and they turn and be healed.
Why?
“The Irresistible and the Indisputable are the two weapons which the very nature of his scheme forbids him to use. Merely to override a human will… would be for Him useless. He cannot ravish. He can only woo.”
C.S. Lewis - Screwtape Letters
 
Errr, this is what those in the anti-terrorist forces call radicalization. Under no circumstances whatsoever should anyone relentlessly seek instructions that make them incrementally more capable of carrying out whatever they imagine God’s instructions to be. That’s exactly how suicide bombers become suicide bombers.
What on earth are you talking about?

How is relentlessly seeking the truth going to make anyone more capable of being fooled by an illusion?
 
What on earth are you talking about?

How is relentlessly seeking the truth going to make anyone more capable of being fooled by an illusion?
Your advice was to relentlessly seek instructions to become incrementally more capable of carrying out whatever the final instructions are.

That is exactly how cults and brainwashing work. It’s how people in Jonestown and Heavens Gate relentlessly drove themselves bonkers.

It’s stunningly dangerous psychologically to tell someone to stress themselves like that, and you give no means for them to know where those “instructions” are coming from. It could even lead to:

“Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual.” - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_schizophrenia#Religion_as_a_trigger_for_schizophrenia

The exact opposite of relentless is needed, as the Pope said “A contemplative attitude is necessary: it is the feeling that you are moving along the good path of understanding and affection toward things and situations. Profound peace, spiritual consolation, love of God and love of all things in God—this is the sign that you are on this right path.”

Or as Jesus says "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
 
Your advice was to relentlessly seek instructions to become incrementally more capable of carrying out whatever the final instructions are.

That is exactly how cults and brainwashing work. It’s how people in Jonestown and Heavens Gate relentlessly drove themselves bonkers.

It’s stunningly dangerous psychologically to tell someone to stress themselves like that, and you give no means for them to know where those “instructions” are coming from. It could even lead to:

“Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual.” - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_schizophrenia#Religion_as_a_trigger_for_schizophrenia

The exact opposite of relentless is needed, as the Pope said “A contemplative attitude is necessary: it is the feeling that you are moving along the good path of understanding and affection toward things and situations. Profound peace, spiritual consolation, love of God and love of all things in God—this is the sign that you are on this right path.”

Or as Jesus says "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
You are taking these quotes out context and ignoring what I actually wrote. The truth is key. Cultists drive themselves “bonkers” precisely because the truth is not important.

Your quotes from Pope Francis and Jesus are so amenable to “interpretation” that, on their own, they mean nothing more than “don’t worry, be happy.” I doubt Jesus, who called his followers to lay down their lives, if necessary, would “he happy” with “follow the truth until the burden gets too heavy and then if persecution gets too much, don’t let that ruin your day, take the easy way out, I wouldn’t want following the Way, the Truth and the Life to ruin your day or get you hurt or killed. You know you are on the right path when life is easy and you have no stress or ruffled feathers.”

I don’t recall those words in the Gospel. I do recall…
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
(Matt 7:17-30)
Jesus is describing a “relentless” seeking after truth and living it out, not a “do what feels good” philosophy. The truth is key.

You need to read the lives of the saints or watch the movie For Greater Glory to get a sense of the difference between knowing the Truth and seeking a life of ease. The peace will come, but not without faith and perseverance. You also need to look into the cardinal virtues.

One more thing…
Therefore hear the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. (Matt 13:18-23)
 
God has never spoken to me audibly. I guess he hasnt spoken to you either.

Why is this?

According to the Bible God has spoken to and spoken through prophets.

Why choose fallible, sinful people to do his communicating?

You would expect a better method of communication would be directly i.e. to speak to each and every one of us directly.

God could implant his perfect message directly into every brain simultaneously.

This would by-pass the need for evangelists of the contradictory world religions.

Then we would all have certain proof of God, and all know exactly what we need to know to be saved, and a clear and perfect understanding of God, life and the universe.

Yet God remains silent. Your thoughts?
Jesus Christ 2000 years ago came, claimed he is God, worked miracles, rose himself from the dead, and fulfilled the prophisies of centuries before.

The real question is the one that Jesus put to Peter, “who do you say I am?”.

We believe and accept him as God who told us that he was leaving his church on earth to be our guide, and that his church would always be here to the termination of the earth. That church is what he uses to speak to each of us today. He also gives us his very body and blood, under the appearance of food, bread and wine, to unite himself to us each and every day. United in this manner means so much more than just speaking to us.

I invite you to come and join us, and then you too will experience the true meaning of God not only speaking to you, but someone who is one in your heart.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
As an agnostic, are you looking for God to use your sense of hearing, the vibrations of your inner ear to be certain of proof of God?

Would this audible voice be heard by those who suffer deafness?
I heard he can cause the blind to see. So it seems like this would not be a problem. But whether it be visual, audible, tactile, or some other method of communicating to him (e-mail, series of vivid dreams) it seems the OP is open to any form of communication provided he feels at least somewhat sure of the origins of the message.

Pardon my mistakes. Sent from my mobile device.
 
I heard he can cause the blind to see. So it seems like this would not be a problem. But whether it be visual, audible, tactile, or some other method of communicating to him (e-mail, series of vivid dreams) it seems the OP is open to any form of communication provided he feels at least somewhat sure of the origins of the message.

Pardon my mistakes. Sent from my mobile device.
Any form of communication?

Gospels, Scripture, Catechism (CCC), writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, Encyclicals

There is so much communication, it is almost impossible to get through it in a lifetime.

“Somewhat sure of the origins” is not problematic, if that is all that is required.

I suspect it is more than that, however. I also suspect that most of us shy away from defining what would constitute certainty precisely because that would lead us into a commitment that we would rather not be obliged to, which is why the level of “certainty” is set to an impossibly high standard to avoid discovering what the certainty would mean or entail.

Humans prefer to be very tentative about that which we might find ourselves beholden to.

If we know the truth with certainty that would mean having to follow the implications of the truth, which many would rather not oblige themselves to. Better to remain skeptical about everything including the nature of truth than to find yourself committed to the truth which might be inescapable, undeniable and uncontrollable once known.
 
I suspect it is more than that, however. I also suspect that most of us shy away from defining what would constitute certainty precisely because that would lead us into a commitment that we would rather not be obliged to…]
I suspect that people don’t know what will make them feel certain much like how some people don’t know what will make them happy.
 
God has never spoken to me audibly. I guess he hasnt spoken to you either.

Why is this?

According to the Bible God has spoken to and spoken through prophets.

Why choose fallible, sinful people to do his communicating?

You would expect a better method of communication would be directly i.e. to speak to each and every one of us directly.

God could implant his perfect message directly into every brain simultaneously.

This would by-pass the need for evangelists of the contradictory world religions.

Then we would all have certain proof of God, and all know exactly what we need to know to be saved, and a clear and perfect understanding of God, life and the universe.

Yet God remains silent. Your thoughts?
I think I could claim to have had communication from God, or at least a guardian angel.

I’ve had 3 “double whammies” which are like a breath going through you in waves from head to foot. Each time it highlighted what someone else was saying, and I still remember the three quotes to this day, word for word, despite the fact they all occurred over 25 years ago.

There have been a couple of “voices” relating to very specific topics eg. “Bob! What’s wrong with being a writer??” when I was complaining in my mind about a lack of vocations. The “voice” was very clear, quite loud (to me - no one else heard it), and it addressed the specific issue of my lack of vocation.

On another occasion I heard “Bob! Is (young lady) SUITED to you??” when I was again complaining, since I had a crush on a certain young lady in the church at that time. The pastor also had been trying to talk me out of it.

However, I suppose a lot of people don’t get these sorts of things, and I might point out that they’re pretty few and far between when they do happen. There have been three, and three only, specific “double whammies” in about 30 years as a Christian. The “voice” might have addressed about 3 specific issues, in the same period of time.

I think in the end it has a lot to do with freedom of choice. If God interfered in all our decisions, we’d hardly be “free agents” (although I’ve got doubts as to how “free” we really are). So He remains silent.

As Dietrich Bonhoeffer put it, God allows “His creature, Man, to push him out of the world on a cross”. In doing so, He very much takes a back seat. You are free to either accept or reject the crucified one, in all His weakness. He won’t be weak when He comes back, mind you, but in the meantime we can make a choice, and without much psychological pressure. There’s not much “fear of God” to be seen when we consider Christ being pushed out of the world on a Roman cross, at the hands of his own religious authorities and his own people. It’s one of the reasons atheists are so contemptuous of our religion. They think God’s weak.

Or as CS Lewis put it, God allows us to slowly and blunderingly work out our problems and solutions, when God Himself could fix it all in the blink of an eye and do it perfectly.

It has to do with personal freedom and personal choice.

Now my own experiences may fly in the fact of that notion, since I claim on a handful of occasions, to have received divine guidance. But note the form - there was no peremptory command, but at the very most “leading questions” - “Bob! What’s wrong with being a writer?”. There was no direct command.

In fact this is one of the ways you can discern the divine from the demonic. Satan is peremptory in his demands. Had the same “guidance” come from the devil, it would have been more along the likes of “Bob! You should be in politics, so get going!”, or “Bob! You’re one of the two witnesses, and don’t you dare doubt my guidance!”. If I acted on either impulse, I’d come to disaster and probably not only for myself.

God’s silence has a lot to do with our freedom of choice, and I think that’s about it.
 
God has never spoken to me audibly. I guess he hasnt spoken to you either.

Why is this?

According to the Bible God has spoken to and spoken through prophets.

Why choose fallible, sinful people to do his communicating?

You would expect a better method of communication would be directly i.e. to speak to each and every one of us directly.

God could implant his perfect message directly into every brain simultaneously.

This would by-pass the need for evangelists of the contradictory world religions.

Then we would all have certain proof of God, and all know exactly what we need to know to be saved, and a clear and perfect understanding of God, life and the universe.

Yet God remains silent. Your thoughts?
The problem with God speaking directly to each one of us, is that then you would no longer have the free will to not believe in him or as in your case be agnostic. The main reason why God does not appear openly to everyone and that there is no concrete proof provided of the existence of God, is so that humans can exercise their free will to believe what they want and do what they think they should.( not what God specifically tells them to).
 
The problem with God speaking directly to each one of us, is that then you would no longer have the free will to not believe in him or as in your case be agnostic. The main reason why God does not appear openly to everyone and that there is no concrete proof provided of the existence of God, is so that humans can exercise their free will to believe what they want and do what they think they should.( not what God specifically tells them to).
I completely disagree. Knowledge of someone’s position, be it a teacher, politician, parent or God does not force anyone to comply. Throughout my life I have probably used this type of free will more than any other.

My reason for why God {god} is silent has been stated on numerous other threads.
 
I completely disagree. Knowledge of someone’s position, be it a teacher, politician, parent or God does not force anyone to comply. Throughout my life I have probably used this type of free will more than any other.

My reason for why God {god} is silent has been stated on numerous other threads.
God does not really force you to do anything, but if you can clearly see his presence or hear him, you would not really be free to do as you please.

If you knew for sure that a teacher or parent was constantly watching, you would not be free to do anything you wish (even though they may not force you to do anything).
 
You are taking these quotes out context and ignoring what I actually wrote. The truth is key. Cultists drive themselves “bonkers” precisely because the truth is not important.
That is incredibly naive. Cultists drive themselves bonkers precisely because they believe they have found the truth. That is what separates them from ordinary folk, their belief that they alone possess the truth.
Your quotes from Pope Francis and Jesus are so amenable to “interpretation” that, on their own, they mean nothing more than “don’t worry, be happy.”
To say that the Pope and Jesus can be interpreted every which way is to accuse them of incoherent bumbling.

Those intent on radicalizing the vulnerable would also say they know the true mind of God, and anything else is ‘amendable to “interpretation”’.
  • I doubt Jesus, who called his followers to lay down their lives, if necessary, would “he happy” with “follow the truth until the burden gets too heavy and then if persecution gets too much, don’t let that ruin your day, take the easy way out, I wouldn’t want following the Way, the Truth and the Life to ruin your day or get you hurt or killed. You know you are on the right path when life is easy and you have no stress or ruffled feathers.”*
Putting something you just made up in quote signs to pretend you didn’t just make it up is not exactly honest.

Those intent on radicalizing the vulnerable would also say that Jesus requires his followers to lay down their lives. Jihadists like Luke 19:27.
*I don’t recall those words in the Gospel. I do recall…
Jesus is describing a “relentless” seeking after truth and living it out, not a “do what feels good” philosophy. The truth is key.
You need to read the lives of the saints or watch the movie For Greater Glory to get a sense of the difference between knowing the Truth and seeking a life of ease. The peace will come, but not without faith and perseverance. You also need to look into the cardinal virtues.
One more thing…*
You are making stuff up again, neither I nor the Pope nor the quote from Matthew say anything about “do what feels good”.

Those intent on radicalizing the vulnerable would also try to make out that moderates must be ignored in favor of their hardline message.

Your posts make it sound like you’re an extreme hardline fundamentalist. If that’s not true then you might like to make a case for being moderate.
 
God does not really force you to do anything, but if you can clearly see his presence or hear him, you would not really be free to do as you please.

If you knew for sure that a teacher or parent was constantly watching, you would not be free to do anything you wish (even though they may not force you to do anything).
👍 The opposition to Big Brother in our society makes that point very forcefully!
 
That is incredibly naive. Cultists drive themselves bonkers precisely because they believe they have found the truth. That is what separates them from ordinary folk, their belief that they alone possess the truth.

To say that the Pope and Jesus can be interpreted every which way is to accuse them of incoherent bumbling.
Actually, no. It is to say that their interpreters can and do engage in incoherent bumbling.

It would be incredibly naive to think that Jesus’ words have not led “interpreters” of those words to start tens of thousands of religious “denominations” without cause, if there didn’t exist interpreters capable of altering statements that, in and of themselves, are very consistent and coherent.
Those intent on radicalizing the vulnerable would also say they know the true mind of God, and anything else is ‘amendable to “interpretation”’.

Putting something you just made up in quote signs to pretend you didn’t just make it up is not exactly honest.

Those intent on radicalizing the vulnerable would also say that Jesus requires his followers to lay down their lives. Jihadists like Luke 19:27.

You are making stuff up again, neither I nor the Pope nor the quote from Matthew say anything about “do what feels good”.

Those intent on radicalizing the vulnerable would also try to make out that moderates must be ignored in favor of their hardline message.

Your posts make it sound like you’re an extreme hardline fundamentalist. If that’s not true then you might like to make a case for being moderate.
Moderate with regards to truth? I think that is exactly the problem. It is NOT seeking truth “leaving no stone unturned” that is precisely the problem. We are not extreme enough seeking the truth and are prone to accept error because we tend to be lax with regard to what is accepted and then, once attached to the way we want it to be, we then become intractable.

The problem of vulnerability would be solved if we had a single-minded approach to truth - of seeking the truth completely and unreservedly. It is the antidote to extreme hardline fundamentalism.

The cultist claims have no immunity from critique, just as the claims you offer on these fora do not, even when you do threaten to call in the moderators or press the ignore button.

Why not simply answer the critiques, instead?

Truth has nothing to hide and is quite capable of answering for itself. Why should I fear turning into an extreme hard line fundamentalist when I am quite willing to expose my ideas to someone, like you, who endeavors to do their best to dispel me of my ill-conceived notions. I welcome your best efforts.

The fact that I have never threatened anyone with report to the mods or “ignoring” their replies, I think, stands for itself regarding truth claims. I want to hear the best that is offered in opposition to my thinking precisely because the truth does not scare me. I welcome it. I want, with all my heart, to know it.

It seems to me that a person who ignores critique or seeks protection from it is more vulnerable to cultism or succumbing to the influence of falsehoods than someone who passionately seeks the absolute truth without compromise.

But, hey, that’s just me, I guess. 🤷
 
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