Why is Hell Eternal?

[Sir_Knight]

And just how is that just? If they didn’t even know or believe…?

**And you have said: The way of the Lord is not right. Hear ye, therefore, O house of Israel: Is it my way that is not right, and are not rather your ways perverse? **(Ezekiel 18:25) *There is a way which seemeth just to a man: but the ends thereof lead to death. *(Proverbs 14:12) For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:9)

 

[Ally_of_Christ]

Wow… I didn’t mean to do that… I don’t understand this stuff, but I will accept God’s ways. I hope I haven’t sinned…

 

[Victorious]

Wow… I didn’t mean to do that… I don’t understand this stuff, but I will accept God’s ways. I hope I haven’t sinned…

I think the message here is that it’s more important to pray for final perseverance for yourself and for your loved ones than it is to worry about why hell is eternal.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Wow… I didn’t mean to do that… I don’t understand this stuff, but I will accept God’s ways. I hope I haven’t sinned…

What I am trying to say is that our focus and understanding is limited. Think of a child who doesn’t want to go to school and thinks that his parents are mean for making him go to school. His scope and understanding is limited compared to his parents. We can not think that God’s decisions are unfair or unjust because His scope and understanding of things is infinitely greater than our own could ever been. What may seem unfair to the small child, could in fact be very fair when viewed from a broader scope. Same here.

As others have said. Pray the rosary including the “Oh my Jesus” after each decade. Pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. Do you best and leave the rest up to God. As others have said, one does not end up in hell by accident and as said in one of the quotes …* “He who prays is certainly saved. He who prays not is certainly damned. All the blessed (except infants) have been saved by prayer. All the damned have been lost through not praying; if they had prayed, they would not have been lost. And this is, and will be, their greatest torment in hell, to think how easily they might have been saved, only by asking God for His grace; but that now it is too late, – the time of prayer is over.”*

 

[PJM]

=Sir Knight;5541202]Except we have Christ’s promise in Matthew 16:18 that that would not happen to His Church so 2 Tim 4:3-4 does not apply.

***Friend the reason these verses do not apply to thee Church now known as Catholic, is that it was written by Catholics for Catholics. In that context which is certainly how it was intended it makes no sense to say that it applies in your understanding to the very writters:shrug:

We can know this because the Bible and the Catholic Church were the exclusive and only Christian Church in existence [of any signifiance] until the mid 1,600’s***

Love and prayers,

 

[Joe_Kelley]

If you read the quotes and links that I have supplied from the approved visions of the saints, you will see that most of the people in hell are those who did not believe that hell existed.

I am reminded of the Saint Padre Pio’s reply to the young man who told him that he did not believe in Hell. Saint Pio told him, “Don’t worry. You will when you get there.”

 

[Convert66]

Ally,

Something that may not have been said is that your fears are well-founded, your concerns are the mark of a compassionate soul, and that these concerns may be a calling. We all have areas that speak to us, and if this is one of those you may consider what sort of ministry God is calling you towards. It may be to set up shop three feet from the gates of hell and snag 'em as their falling in, precisely because the thought of it horrifies you. Use that horror for good. Redeem it.

You may be called to simply live your life where you are and to pray like people’s eternal souls depended upon it, making reparations through suffering and sacrifice and penance. Souls do depend upon it. We should all pray more as we see these gathering shadows falling over the earth. Your tears are valuable to God. He is not unaware of your concerns. He is a Good Father and is moved by the hurts of His dear children.

And on top of all of that, God is Infinite and Perfect Love, so if you are moved with compassion for the suffering, how much is Our Father moved? Trust in His mercy.

These three remain . . .Faith, Hope and Love, but the greatest of these is Love. You wouldn’t worry if you did not have love and by this all people will know Him in you (warts and all…). Faith, hope and love.

Kiss the Cross. Make it your dwelling place and He will raise you up with Him. God bless you.

 

[Sir_Knight]

***Friend the reason these verses do not apply to thee Church now known as Catholic, is that it was written by Catholics for Catholics. In that context which is certainly how it was intended it makes no sense to say that it applies in your understanding to the very writters:shrug:

We can know this because the Bible and the Catholic Church were the exclusive and only Christian Church in existence [of any signifiance] until the mid 1,600’s***

Love and prayers,

I have no idea what you just said

 

[Sir_Knight]

Let’s also keep in mind that according to the church fathers …

• "The most common sentiment which is held is that, among Christians, there are more damned souls than predestined souls."
• "Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom."
• “There are few who are saved.”
• “Few are saved in comparison to those who are damned.”
• "Out of 100,000 people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely ONE who is worthy of indulgence."
• "the number of priests who fall into hell each day is so great that it seemed impossible that there be any left on earth"
• "Many priests are not saved; on the contrary, the number of those who are damned is greater."
• "Out of thirty-three thousand people who died. Two went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell."
• “If you consider the sacrament of penance, there are so many distorted confessions, so many studied excuses, so many deceitful repentances, so many false promises, so many ineffective resolutions, so many invalid absolutions!”
• "Most Catholic adults confess badly at death, therefore most of them are damned."

… [Source (The Few Number Who Are Saved) (this topic was also discussed [here (http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=183214)).​

 

[seeker_of_God]

Let’s also keep in mind that according to the church fathers …

• “If you consider the sacrament of penance, there are so many distorted confessions, so many studied excuses, so many deceitful repentances, so many false promises, so many ineffective resolutions, so many invalid absolutions!”

… [Source (The Few Number Who Are Saved) (this topic was also discussed [here (http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=183214)).​

Now this is the thing that scares me. I believe that all of my confessions have been valid, but how can I know? I thought that the great majority of them are valid unless you are intending to deceive the priest, but this makes it sound otherwise.

The one thing that comforts me is that I have received so much grace from God since I started going to confession 5 weeks ago, that I think it must have been valid. But still, that makes me wonder.

What is a “studied excuse,” in particular, and how does it invalidate the confession?

 

[Victorious]

Now this is the thing that scares me. I believe that all of my confessions have been valid, but how can I know? I thought that the great majority of them are valid unless you are intending to deceive the priest, but this makes it sound otherwise.

The one thing that comforts me is that I have received so much grace from God since I started going to confession 5 weeks ago, that I think it must have been valid. But still, that makes me wonder.

What is a “studied excuse,” in particular, and how does it invalidate the confession?

Studied excuse: I think this refers to an elaborately rationalized circumvention of the truth.

Our capacity for self-deception is such that I personally fear it in the context of confession. Where we are weak, we must beg for help, and the help is there. So I always pray to the Blessed Mother to obtain for me the grace to make a good confession, and to obtain for me light and courage not to fall into the trap of deceiving myself. I think if we go to confession with the right intention, and having sincerely prayed for God’s assistance, we need never fear that we have made a bad confession, whatever we may feel.

I also think it is critically important to pray daily for the graces of final perseverance and protection from sudden and unprovided death. There is no worse time to try to rely on our own powers than the moment of our death; but if we want the help of grace and mercy, we have to ask sincerely for it.

 

[seeker_of_God]

After reading most of The Diary of St. Faustina (I’m almost through the 5th notebook), I’m convinced that God would rather us focus on His mercy. Certainly there was a time when I focused almost exclusively on His justice, and indeed He is infinitely just and no sin goes unpunished, but He began to help me to focus on His mercy instead, and St. Faustina’s writings have played a large role in that. After doing so, I feel less intimidated to go to Him and ask for His mercy for my sins and vices, or just to tell Him about my concerns or worries. I feel less scrupulous and less fearful overall.

In St. Faustina’s writings, she writes that Jesus told her that sinners may either enter through the door of His mercy, or justice. I really like that imagery. He also said something like this being the time for sinners to ask for His mercy, before falling into His just hands.

“Proclaim that mercy is the greatest attribute of God. All the works of My hands are crowned with mercy.” (Diary, 301)

“My daughter, speak to priests about this inconceivable mercy of Mine. The flames of mercy are burning Me-clamoring to be spent; I want to keep pouring them out upon souls; souls just don’t want to believe in My goodness.” (Diary, 177)

[Let] the greatest sinners place their trust in My mercy. They have the right before others to trust in the abyss of My mercy. My daughter, write about My mercy towards tormented souls. Souls that make an appeal to My mercy delight Me. To such souls I grant even more graces than they ask. I cannot punish even the greatest sinner if he makes an appeal to My compassion, but on the contrary, I justify him in My unfathomable and inscrutable mercy. Write: before I come as a just Judge, I first open wide the door of My mercy. He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice…" (Diary, 1146)

“…I desire trust from My creatures. Encourage souls to place great trust in My fathomless mercy. Let the weak, sinful soul have no fear to approach Me, for even if it had more sins than there are grains of sand in the world, all would be drowned in the unmeasurable depths of My mercy.” (Diary, 1059)

“Tell sinners that no one shall escape My Hand; if they run away from My Merciful Heart, they will fall into My Just Hands. Tell sinners that I am always waiting for them, that I listen intently to the beating of their heart… when will it beat for Me? Write, that I am speaking to them through their remorse of conscience, through their failures and sufferings, through thunderstorms, through the voice of the Church. And if they bring all My graces to naught, I begin to be angry with them, leaving them alone and giving them what they want.” (Diary, 1728)

See this page for more excerpts from her writings about mercy.

She also writes a few times that Satan hates God’s mercy, and once implies he would rather them focus on God’s justice.

812 + Today I have fought a battle with the spirits of darkness over one soul. How terribly Satan hates God’s mercy! I see how he opposes this whole work.

1405 November 30, 1937. When I was going upstairs this evening, a strange dislike for everything having to do with God suddenly came over me. At that, I heard Satan who said to me, “Think no more about this work. God is not as merciful as you say He is. Do not pray for sinners, because they will be damned all the same, and by this work of mercy you expose your own self to damnation. Talk no more about this mercy of God with your confessor and especially not with Father Sopocko and Father Andrasz.” At this point, the voice took the appearance of my Guardian Angel, and at that moment I replied, “I know who you are: the father of lies [cf. Jn. 8:44].” I made the sign of the cross, and the angel vanished with great racket and fury.

1338 As I write these words, I hear the cry of Satan: “She’s 'writing everything, she’s writing everything, and because of this we are losing so much! Do not write about the goodness of God; He is just!” And howling with fury, he vanished.

That’s not to say we can be lax in our conscience or not go to confession, as of course we must go to confession and must ask God for the grace to help us grow in holiness, but I think it is a mistake to have such a fear of God that we might be thrown into hell at any moment. Indeed, I believe God pursues souls with every grace possible to get them to turn to Him. I especially like paragraph 1486.

If a soul is stained by mortal sin, then there indeed is a reason to fear, and such a person should strive to go to confession as soon as possible. But I believe that for those who truly trust in God and do their best to follow Him, He will give them the grace to persevere.

 

[Ally_of_Christ]

What about those who don’t think God is real?

 

[seeker_of_God]

What about those who don’t think God is real?

As I said, pray for them, especially with the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. That’s all you can do. If they come to you with questions, answer them charitably. In all things, reflect the goodness of God, not giving people any excuse to condemn the truth. That is, diligently pray to grow in holiness.

Otherwise, leave it all to God.

 

[LilyM]

What about those who don’t think God is real?

God is both more truly just AND more truly merciful than any human being (yourself included) could ever dream of being. He surely knows that some, through no fault of their own, don’t think He is real, and does not punish those for something that isn’t their doing or fault.

You can be sure God would never permit someone to be damned without their understanding what they’ve done wrong and how exactly their eternal fate is both perfectly just AND perfectly merciful in the circumstances.

Wouldn’t someone who rejects God while deep down knowing better (as full knowledge is a condition that is required before a sin is mortal) WANT not to be in His presence? Just like an addict who is deep in the throes of their addiction would often rather cling to the false and temporary sense of wellbeing that indulging their addiction gives than face the truth and get sober?

Remember - in addition to all the conditions that must accompany a sin for it to be mortal - it must be grave matter AND be committed with both full knowledge AND full consent - there is a further condition, which is that of final impenitence. Not only must the sinner consciously and freely choose to commit mortal sin, but they must maintain an attitude of impenitence - not being sorry for that mortal sin - right up to the point of death. How many good Christians do you honestly know who would not only sin mortally but remain impenitent about it WHILE really knowing deep down that what they’ve done is wrong?

Such a truly hardened soul, you can be sure, wouldn’t repent even if shown Hell itself. That’s where your viewpoint is wrong. God isn’t looking to lock anyone out of heaven, quite the opposite - He’s giving them every help He can to attain salvation for all, and allowing every indulgence He can possibly offer in regard the offences we commit against Him.

He offers us His own self in the person of His only son - to redeem us. What more could He possibly do to prevent our damnation, seriously, if His own death isn’t enough? What more could possibly motivate us to obey Him and seek His presence in heaven if His passion and death can’t?

What was Christ’s prayer in Gethsemane? “If it be possible, let this cup of suffering pass me by”. In other words “if you can save people by some other, better means, other than the Passion that awaits me, please do.” This wasn’t just a selfish desire to personally avoid suffering - Christ was never selfish. Surely He also wanted to be sure that what transpired was in fact the best POSSIBLE method of achieving salvation for people.

Clearly, as the Father’s answer indicates, it was and is. Why, then, do you think there’s anything more or different that God could or should do that would achieve a better result - save more people, spare more of their suffering?

 

[PJM]

Victorious Studied excuse: I think this refers to an elaborately rationalized circumvention of the truth.

Our capacity for self-deception is such that I personally fear it in the context of confession. Where we are weak, we must beg for help, and the help is there. So I always pray to the Blessed Mother to obtain for me the grace to make a good confession, and to obtain for me light and courage not to fall into the trap of deceiving myself. I think if we go to confession with the right intention, and having sincerely prayed for God’s assistance, we need never fear that we have made a bad confession, whatever we may feel.

I also think it is critically important to pray daily for the graces of final perseverance and protection from sudden and unprovided death. There is no worse time to try to rely on our own powers than the moment of our death; but if we want the help of grace and mercy, we have to ask sincerely for it.

***Dear friend,

If your Confession was truthful and complete, if you were truly repentent and if the priest used vaild form: “I absolve you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”; go in the peace of God. And if you fulfilled your Penance, it’s a done deal:thumbsup:***

Love and prayers, keep up the good work!

 

[Ally_of_Christ]

Justice is supposed to be necessary to help people, and correct their faults and crimes, but in Hell, God will never let people make amends and repent. Hell just sounds like senseless, meaningless, everlasting torture. Maybe sinners aren’t worthy of Heaven, but punishing them forever isn’t going to help them. I wish God would eventually let them in some middle ground between Heaven and Hell to alleiviate their pain. Even Saint John Bosco didn’t understand, when given a vision of Hell, why his boys would go there for sins which they considered insignificnt. Maybe the sinners could never have Heaven, but I don’t understand why God would never let them out of their punishment. In visions from saints which I have read about, many souls in Hell wished to repent of their sins, but it was useless. They were trapped there forever and they did NOT want suffering.

Punishment in purgatory will eventually end, because the sinners repented of their sins before they died. If a person repents of their sins when they are given eternal life, God no longer wishes to give forgivness, but instead unceasingly tortures them. The punishment seems senseless to me because it is not meant to make a person repent of their sins. It is just… suffering and torment… nothing more… I hope I get to Heaven, and I hope those around me escape hell too, but it almost seems as if heaven is impossible to attain. I’m not despairing, but I don’t understand how eternal punishment can be called just, and I’m scared.

Here on earth, we don’t have a full understanding of how God will punish us for certain offenses. Some people don’t understand why some sins, such as sexual sins are even a sin at all, so they commit them. They die, and although they might have lived faithfully to all commandments but the sixth, which was only violated because of lack of understanding, they are sent to a supernatual place of suffering and torment, never to be let out. If only God had given them complete understanding of how their actions would affect them when they were sent to their final destination, they most likely would commit no sin at all, but since they weren’t given complete and total warning, they commit only sins which seem perfectly harmless, and are tortured for eternity. They were only warned through words of others, not directly warned by He who would administer the punishment.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Justice is supposed to be necessary to help people, and correct their faults and crimes, but in Hell, God will never let people make amends and repent. Hell just sounds like senseless, meaningless, everlasting torture.

Dear Ally of Christ,

I’ve struggled with this question too, for many years. I’m a bit late to this thread, but I’ll offer you what I’ve found so far in pondering this question:

First, this life seems designed to give us a second chance to see the pain that sin causes first hand, so we can choose God instead of sin. A few examples:

Consider the alcoholic or drug addict who turns to an earthly consolation instead of God. They begin in a state of pain, and turn to alcohol, and the deeper and deeper they get into their vice, the more miserable and miserable their life becomes. Perhaps you can’t comprehend just how miserable this existence is… but it sounds to me like a hell on earth. Could we believe that God would let alcholism exist, if we hadn’t seen it ourselves? It is truly horrible, but it is part of reality. Human beings are capable of suffering very very greatly if we get on the wrong path.

Consider what happens in places where there are few people who love, and fewer who love God. Imagine being in a prison - we’ve all seen movies and TV shows about what happens in prison. Love is completely lacking, people turn on one another and take out their anger on each other. The torment of living with others who have rejected love and God is the real punishment here. Again, could we believe that something so horrible as a prison could exist, if we hadn`t seen it? Would God allow a prison to exist? We know that he does - he has allowed these people to choose to reject him and live with the consequences.

These are examples of hell on earth. It gives us a glimpse of a greater timeless reality that was a necessary part of God’s plan for man to have free will. I believe its logically impossible to have free will, and happiness and love without suffering and hate. Jesus came to save us from the consequences of drifting away from God.

If we refuse to live in the love of God, and if we refuse to turn to God for our consolations and turn to sin instead, this life was set up to show us the suffering it causes. Yes hell is scary and hard to understand, but we can see glimpses of it all around us, and it is real. It is the consequence of people not listening to God. God didn’t create it, people did by not listening. The only way God could stop it would be to undo his creation of mankind with our free will.

 

[Ally_of_Christ]

Dear Ally of Christ,

I’ve struggled with this question too, for many years. I’m a bit late to this thread, but I’ll offer you what I’ve found so far in pondering this question:

First, this life seems designed to give us a second chance to see the pain that sin causes first hand, so we can choose God instead of sin. A few examples:

God didn’t create it, people did by not listening. The only way God could stop it would be to undo his creation of mankind with our free will.

God does take away our free will when we die. We no longer can choose whether or not we want to dive into Hell once we a) just learn that it is real or b) see the sufferings to back up what we have already learned. In this life, yes, we may be given glimpses of Hell, but it not the same as seeing it firsthand. If only God would give everyone perfect knowledge of the afterlife, I highly doubt anyone would commit any sin at all.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

God does take away our free will when we die. We no longer can choose whether or not we want to dive into Hell once we a) just learn that it is real or b) see the sufferings to back up what we have already learned. In this life, yes, we may be given glimpses of Hell, but it not the same as seeing it firsthand. If only God would give everyone perfect knowledge of the afterlife, I highly doubt anyone would commit any sin at all.

Luke 16
27 He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house,
28 for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’
29 But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’
30 He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’