Why is Islam false?

[sedonaman]

The first test of a prophet is whether he contradicts prior revelation. Islam contradicts prior revelation; it even admits this by its claim that the Bible is corrupt, yet it uses the Bible to validate itself. How can truth come from falsehood? biblestudying.net/islam1.html

Islam is dualistic frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=26769, meaning that two conflicting statements can both be true. The above is an example: the Bible is true, but it is corrupt.

See also “St. John of Damascus Critique of Islam” at orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

 

[po18guy]

The first test of a prophet is whether he contradicts prior revelation. Islam contradicts prior revelation; it even admits this by its claim that the Bible is corrupt, yet it uses the Bible to validate itself. How can truth come from falsehood? biblestudying.net/islam1.html

Islam is dualistic frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=26769, meaning that two conflicting statements can both be true. The above is an example: the Bible is true, but it is corrupt.

See also “St. John of Damascus Critique of Islam” at orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

Frankly, the principle sounds like sola scriptura Christianity.

 

[Kouyate42]

I think that when judging the truth claims of any system faith, it is relevant to judge according to how well the claims of the adherents conform to an objective rational and critical analysis.

A central claim of many Muslims, and one that has likely been around since the religion calcified after the Mongol and Moghul sacks, is that the Koran is the direct word of Allah, transmitted divinely through angelic voice, accurate to the dot and the iota, and Mohammed was merely the messenger, a human telux machine so to speak.

Major problem is that we don't have even any of the original pieces of bone, leather or pottery on which it is believed the 'sahabah' or companions of Muhammad wrote down the revelations as Muhammad revealted them. Indeed, if you believe the myth that Islam promotes, Muhammad was illiterate. Every single Qur'an which exists now is the result of a likely ''orthodoxisation'' much later which has nothing to do with truth but everything to do with man-made religion.

Any critical analysis of such a claim would suggest that this claim is highly improbable; as you say, many of the passages of the Koran show traces of foreign sources. Many even are directly outsourced from some of the apocryphal Christian works that abounded outside of the areas of the Churches political influence.

Doesn’t take a historian to realize that some of the heretical Christian sects were in communication with some of the contemporary Arabic tribes of Muhammad’s time. Taking into account the usual account that Muhammad was a merchant or some sort (or trader) it is likely he came into contact with SOME Christian/Jewish people.

Even in their own Muslim history, Abu Bakr is reported to have ordered all but one of the versions of the rapidly multiplying ‘Koranic’ verses to be destroyed, even the most authentic ones in the possession of Mohammed’s own widow, with the overtly stated objective being politically expediency, ‘so that Muslims do not become divided as the Christians have become’ due to such variances.

Wouldn’t surprise me one bit. There’s still one existing Qur’an held in one Islamic museum in the Middle East which the owners refuse to allow for any scholars to study, and the commonly held explanation is that the text of that Quran is not the ‘authorized’ version and that releasing it would cause chaos.

The Catholic claim, made even recently by Pope Benedict XVI is that there can be no contradiction between faith and science. Faith does not contradict reason, but necessarily conforms to reason, in the Catholic faith tradition.

Exactly. Faith and reason can co-exist, if not be two sides of the same coin.

it is a blind faith that disregards reasonableness that still regards the faith claim about the full divinity of Koranic sources. That is what your evidence suggest, and indeed, the fact that serious Muslims scholars who attempt to do such critical scholarship on their Koran are censured and even tortured for their efforts are a good indication that the expedient spirit of Abu Bakr lives on in the Islamic tradition.

For a true religion, truth is power. For Islam, however, power is their truth.

To quote Thomas Paine: If it be truth, let it stand, for it is error only which shrinks from enquiry.

 

[Marybeloved]

Kouyate42,

To go on a tangent a little- it had been my impression in discussions with you some months ago that you were positively inclined to Islam- Reading this thread, it appears that without a doubt, you now have a very critical view of it and have even come to a decision against it. If you don’t mind my asking, did something happen, an epiphany or something else that caused you to see Islam in a less affective or objective or just plain different light? Just curious…

 

[sedonaman]

Frankly, the principle sounds like sola scriptura Christianity.

Could you elaborate ?

 

[sedonaman]

… Or as St. Aquinas said of the old philosophers “The ancient philosophers gradually, and as it were step by step, advanced to the knowledge of truth.” …

“REASONS FOR THE FAITH AGAINST MUSLIM OBJECTIONS”
by Saint Thomas Aquinas, O.P.

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/islam/rationes.htm

 

[x1980x]

The reality is that what I see in Islam isn’t something that I consider to be part of a well-ordered and peaceful universe. I see a faith full of bloodshed and disregard for your fellow man. Basically, the opposite of what Jesus taught.

Certainly, not every follower of Islam (or any religion) is the same, but I’m seeing these things as more ingrained in the Islamic world-view than in most Christian world-views.

 

[Kouyate42]

The reality is that what I see in Islam isn’t something that I consider to be part of a well-ordered and peaceful universe. I see a faith full of bloodshed and disregard for your fellow man. Basically, the opposite of what Jesus taught.

Certainly, not every follower of Islam (or any religion) is the same, but I’m seeing these things as more ingrained in the Islamic world-view than in most Christian world-views.

I agree to some extent, but I’d also add that from what I’ve read, the idea of a single religion which is the original religion of mankind is false. Islam is split along tribal, cultural and scholarly lines, and differing Muslim schools of thought cannot even agree on the most basic of faith principles.

 

[Amer_Was_Amazed]

Midrashic stories of Judaism have many of the same elements, and the influence of Judaism on Islam is even stronger than that of Christianity.
The beating of the stone by Moses, whatever wisdom is ultimately involved, brings to mind the reason why Moses was not allowed to enter into the Promised Land, by the way. It was exactly because he beat the stone rather than talked to it, as God told him to, that kept him from leading his people out of the desert.
Some Christians interpret the reason for this as being that the rock is Christ, the stone that the builders rejected. Some Jews see this more as Moses proving himself incapable of leading his people from the extraordinary world of miracle that life in the desert entailed, into an ordinary world where people would have to make a living on their own without extraordinary means.

At any rate Midrash are not often meant to be taken literally, and by all accounts neither are hadith such as this one.

True, and actually all of the hadiths can be brought into question, even by Muslims. After I had enough of being a Sunni Muslim and researching the authenticity of hadiths, I became a Quran alone Muslim, which is a minority of Muslims spread across the world who have very different views and no organization. They are the Protestant form of Islam in many ways, I now realize. I rejected all the hadiths after reading so many, and many of them contradict each other and the Quran. After being a Quran alone Muslim for around a year to a year and a half, I was even more confused as you had to pick what you believed the Quran and no two Quran aloners ever come close to the same beliefs, even though they base everything off the Quran alone. The website for the largest forum I have ever found for Quran alone Muslims is www.free-minds.org, and most of them are much more welcoming than mainstream Muslims, if you would like to check it out. There are Christians, atheists, and others on there as well.

 

[rikkk1958]

The only thing that attaches Islam to being a religion is devotion to God Almighty. I admire Muslims for their act of reverence towards God. However, due to Muhammed’s wrong teachings, Muslims were not able to go along the teachings of the Holy Bible which was Muhammed’s source of information when he started his so called revelations. The advent of Arab nationalism and rejection of the occupiers, like the Jews and Christians, Muhammed was able to capitalize his leadership through his raw knowledge of the Holy Bible. It is a historical fact that Muhammed grew up learning Judaism and Christianity. The Arabian Peninsula was worshiping paganism.

Islam may fear God but rejecting the life and teachings of Jesus Christ is a sign that they also reject the will of God. That is why they are debating the life and death of Jesus Christ especially about salvation through His death and resurrection. His accounts of his story even regarding his encounter with Angel Gabriel is very questionable, and also comparing his story about the Virgin Mary and birth of the Lord is like folk lore. His hatred to Christian and Jews is apparent during his period of leadership and conquest. He used his so called revelations as the cause of his conquest therefore gaining more following from the Arabs.

 

[ALotLessThumb]

There is no Islam like there is a Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism.

Islam is an amalgam of monotheistic sensibilities that coalesced to, at first, clear away the waning Roman power from Byzantium, then to conquer for the Ummah. It is an archaic religion dressed up in post-Christian sensibilities and is throughly gnostic at that.

There is no Muhammad, there is no narrative in the Quran, the holy cities are ephemeral symbols for the underlying gnosis. (Much like the pagan experience, where the symbols and rituals pre-date their explanations. This is not true with Christians and the sacraments, which are given after the fact as an participating-explanation to the mysteries.)

It wasn’t until the 1500 hundreds that Islam started to become the dominant identity of the people outside of the ruling classes being “Islamic.” If you ask me, this has much to do with European colonialism which totally decimated traditional populations (especially the Christian ones) in the middle east. Check out the numbers, there were more Christians under the metropolitan of Baghdad in the 1200 than there were under the Bishop of Rome.

There is absolutely no revelation presented in the Qu’ran, read it. What passes as revelation is the text itself, which is recited in the same sense that one may recite a magical formula. Receiving text is not a revelatory expression in Christianity or even in Judaism. The text has always been a reaction to the event of God intervening in history.

And this is why we can say Islam is false, without revelation, it shows us nothing of the human condition and our relationship to God.

 

[po18guy]

Could you elaborate ?

The use of any document to validate itself is pure sola scriptura. As well, the equivocation of verses or the acceptance of differing meanings extracted form the same verse sounds a bit like “bible” Christianity to me.
It strikes me as relativism.

 

[sedonaman]

The use of any document to validate itself is pure sola scriptura.

That’s not what the article says. It says Islam uses the Bible to validate Islam, not the Bible.

As well, the equivocation of verses or the acceptance of differing meanings extracted form the same verse sounds a bit like “bible” Christianity to me.
It strikes me as relativism.

That might be true, but I don’t think it’s pertinent to the point of the article.

 

[po18guy]

That’s not what the article says. It says Islam uses the Bible to validate Islam, not the Bible.
That might be true, but I don’t think it’s pertinent to the point of the article.

My bad. I failed to note the use of one to validate the other.

 

[arabic_catholic]

it’s easy for me now , to know how fake the islamic Religion is , but when I was muslim I couldn’t .

all what you have to do is to study the Quran

the Quran according to muslims is the perfect word of God that has not even one mistake because it was spoken by the Almighty himself , so how can he makes any mistake?

yet it’s easy if you know the tradition of the Church to see how this divine being stole from Fabrication books and stories , made a lot of obvious errors . and yes muslim shaikhs will try to defend their books , but any honest person will know that their answers are not convincing .

for Example , Some of the stories about jesus in the Quran goes to the infancy gospels, the infancy gospel of Thomas goes to the 3rd century , the book in itself contradict the gospel of John (1st century gospel) were Jesus made his first miracle . this Gospel talked about Jesus who created a bird from Clay . The Quran fall in this mistake by mentioning this legendry story which goes to 3rd century !

if you want to read more about the sources of the Quran you can read this link ,en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_and_the_Quran

Quran took from books which are fabrication or rebbanic and not divine . therefore , the God of Islam Expose himself .

the first biography about Muhammed was written 160 years after the death of mohammed by ibn ishaq . so one can easily Question the historicity of the prophet of Islam .Most authentic Hadiths(the sayings of Muhammed ) were passed orally for 260 years !!! some of Allah sayings were not written in the Quran and were lost according to Islamic sources , and some of them were called Hadith Qudsi, (which is a later islamic invention to give allah sayings powers and explanation to way they are not in the Quran)

see how those Authentic sayings of the islamic God was stolen from St, Paul !!

That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, "Allah said, “I have prepared for My pious slaves things which have never been seen by an eye, or heard by an ear, or imagined by a human being.”

and muslims attack Paul , saying he created Christianity yet their Allah is quoting him . and not only that ,according to 36:14 muslim commentary viewed the three apostles names are shamoun (,Simon Peter) , yuhana ( John ) , and Bulus( the Arabic name for PAUL)

and the funny thing that in arabic commentary those three messengers were the messengers of Jesus !!

(so We reinforced them with a third,) means, We supported and strengthened them with a third Messenger. ' Ibn Jurayj narrated from Wahb bin Sulayman, from Shuayb Al-Jaba’i, "The names of the first two Messengers were Sham`un and Yuhanna, and the name of the third was Bulus

in short , the best way to see why islam is false , by looking at it book and read history with a skeptic mind , and you will see the roots of that co - divine book

 

[Amer_Was_Amazed]

it’s easy for me now , to know how fake the islamic Religion is , but when I was muslim I couldn’t .

all what you have to do is to study the Quran

the Quran according to muslims is the perfect word of God that has not even one mistake because it was spoken by the Almighty himself , so how can he makes any mistake?

yet it’s easy if you know the tradition of the Church to see how this divine being stole from Fabrication books and stories , made a lot of obvious errors . and yes muslim shaikhs will try to defend their books , but any honest person will know that their answers are not convincing .

for Example , Some of the stories about jesus in the Quran goes to the infancy gospels, the infancy gospel of Thomas goes to the 3rd century , the book in itself contradict the gospel of John (1st century gospel) were Jesus made his first miracle . this Gospel talked about Jesus who created a bird from Clay . The Quran fall in this mistake by mentioning this legendry story which goes to 3rd century !

if you want to read more about the sources of the Quran you can read this link ,en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_and_the_Quran

Quran took from books which are fabrication or rebbanic and not divine . therefore , the God of Islam Expose himself .

the first biography about Muhammed was written 160 years after the death of mohammed by ibn ishaq . so one can easily Question the historicity of the prophet of Islam .Most authentic Hadiths(the sayings of Muhammed ) were passed orally for 260 years !!! some of Allah sayings were not written in the Quran and were lost according to Islamic sources , and some of them were called Hadith Qudsi, (which is a later islamic invention to give allah sayings powers and explanation to way they are not in the Quran)

see how those Authentic sayings of the islamic God was stolen from St, Paul !!

That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, "Allah said, “I have prepared for My pious slaves things which have never been seen by an eye, or heard by an ear, or imagined by a human being.”

and muslims attack Paul , saying he created Christianity yet their Allah is quoting him . and not only that ,according to 36:14 muslim commentary viewed the three apostles names are shamoun (,Simon Peter) , yuhana ( John ) , and Bulus( the Arabic name for PAUL)

and the funny thing that in arabic commentary those three messengers were the messengers of Jesus !!

(so We reinforced them with a third,) means, We supported and strengthened them with a third Messenger. ' Ibn Jurayj narrated from Wahb bin Sulayman, from Shuayb Al-Jaba’i, "The names of the first two Messengers were Sham`un and Yuhanna, and the name of the third was Bulus

in short , the best way to see why islam is false , by looking at it book and read history with a skeptic mind , and you will see the roots of that co - divine book

I agree. All one has to do is read the Quran and hadiths with an open mind and without trying to cling to a wrong identity and look, and it will be clear that Islam is not the truth.