Why is Islamic allah's moral standards different from Yahweh God?

[Mosacked]

Well, whether I have a confused mind or not, the scriptures you chose as the basis of your argument apply, in the first case, to remarriage to a previously divorced wife who had subsequently married another man and had been divorced or widowed and, in the second case to a member of the priest tribe.

Neither was the case with Mohammed.

Like I already said, if you think you’re clean because you’re jumping into a cesspool in a cesspool jumping competition and not just jumping in outside of the competition, then there’s really nothing else I can do to help you.

Defilement is not bounded by physical boundaries, neither are instructions for holiness for priesthood limited to just the priests and not those who claims a greater call of holiness/sanctity than even the priests.

You have showed me that you can consume dirt by just re-classifying the conditions in which you take of it. And you have showed me that you can allow yourself to perform acts of unclean-ness by disqualifying yourself from its boundaries. What manner of Jew would that be? An outcast.

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[Kaninchen]

Like I already said, if you think you’re clean because you’re jumping into a cesspool in a cesspool jumping competition and not just jumping in outside of the competition, then there’s really nothing else I can do to help you.

Defilement is not bounded by physical boundaries, neither are instructions for holiness for priesthood limited to just the priests and not those who claims a greater call of holiness/sanctity than even the priests.

You have showed me that you can consume dirt by just re-classifying the conditions in which you take of it. And you have showed me that you can allow yourself to perform acts of unclean-ness by disqualifying yourself from its boundaries. What manner of Jew would that be? An outcast.

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Do you find that shouting at people who point out that you’re wrong works for you?

 

[Mosacked]

Do you find that shouting at people who point out that you’re wrong works for you?

Do you find that you’re wrestling instructions for holiness out of their boundaries that you may remain in sin?

 

[Kaninchen]

Do you find that you’re wrestling instructions for holiness out of their boundaries that you may remain in sin?

You, very obviously, do so it seems to work for you.

 

[seraphime2008]

Willing hostages are made by 2 ways. 1 personal ignorance. 2 external lack of information.

Muslims are born INTO islamic families and 1 - prohibited from challenging islamic theories. 2 - in environments where there are serious droughts of secular information that is different from theirs.

They live in entirely different worlds from us. And since everyone is taught to emulate the person who gave them very bad examples, the only way out for them really is to show that the person they are emulating was a fraud and not worth emulating. Otherwise, the thing will keep repeating itself over and over again.

If the world is to save people from islam, it must begin by pumping in secular information and allowing complete religious freedom.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

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I’m living as minority in Indonesia, indeed not an islamic country but most are muslims,
but I do see that their willingness to be hostages of their belief is more likely because of what they believe the real message of Islam, the tawheed, the oneness of God, simply that, that was the truth (they think) brought by Muhammad, nothing less. Other religions seems to apply some kind of shirk of associating partner with Allah, which they believe the most unforgivable sin, the only thing that they’re fearful of. To suggest that they are not given access of info from more secular world is not addressing the real matter, because in this internet era, info is free, the world they say is becoming flat. Indonesia do have access to even the most hostile website of faith freedom that could ignite muslims to fire.

But most muslims don’t really study their theology or disputes around their prophet and prophethood , they only adhere to the most basic principal of tawheed and observe most basic practice of the five pillars of Islam that they think will wash away their sin, which truly is so simple and for them is also logical. Given the situation of the secular world of the West that promotes too much freedom they could handle, they would of course think that islam is their truly only answer to the right way of conduct.

So I don’t think most effort to dissuade them by exposing them of Muhammad’s character will help to enlighten them their religion’s problem.
Most of us are only observer of their ridiculousness, but I think it’s really difficult to really change them if that’s your only weapon.

Best regards

 

[Mosacked]

I’m living as minority in Indonesia, indeed not an islamic country but most are muslims,
but I do see that their willingness to be hostages of their belief is more likely because of what they believe the real message of Islam, the tawheed, the oneness of God, simply that, that was the truth (they think) brought by Muhammad, nothing less. Other religions seems to apply some kind of shirk of associating partner with Allah, which they believe the most unforgivable sin, the only thing that they’re fearful of. To suggest that they are not given access of info from more secular world is not addressing the real matter, because in this internet era, info is free, the world they say is becoming flat. Indonesia do have access to even the most hostile website of faith freedom that could ignite muslims to fire.

But most muslims don’t really study their theology or disputes around their prophet and prophethood , they only adhere to the most basic principal of tawheed and observe most basic practice of the five pillars of Islam that they think will wash away their sin, which truly is so simple and for them is also logical. Given the situation of the secular world of the West that promotes too much freedom they could handle, they would of course think that islam is their truly only answer to the right way of conduct.

So I don’t think most effort to dissuade them by exposing them of Muhammad’s character will help to enlighten them their religion’s problem.
Most of us are only observer of their ridiculousness, but I think it’s really difficult to really change them if that’s your only weapon.

Best regards

Seraphime, my compliments to your coherent and clear reply.

From what I may gather from your reply, the root problem is lack of information & the willingness to explore. Had the muslims in Indonesia been made aware of the teachings of love & grace and the Salvation plan and had they had the courage to challenge the qualification of muhammad as a prophet, then the situation where they have to finally conveniently reside in islam would not exist.

When you have only knowledge of a religion and warned not to look outwards. Then whatever information that may linger outside of your direct peripheral vision would be ignored by you unless you have within you the willingness to make comparisons.

Why are these Indonesians afraid of the perceived freedom? Because they don’t really know what that freedom out there really is or means. Why are these Indonesians believing in the ceremonial/sacramental 5 pillars instead of the simple confession/repentance? Because they don’t know there is an option out there which is not sacramental in nature and they doubt in the efficacy of the method. Some may know, but they have no wish to understand. Ultimately it all boils down to 2 things. True Knowledge & the heart to seek the Truth.

Many have eyes but do not see. Ears but do no hear.

I agree, that many will not believe because their ears/eyes are closed. Jesus said that no man can go to Him unless God allows it. Ultimately it is not us who decides whether they will repent or not, but it is our duty to preach regardless of the outcome.

God said that we are to seek Him with ALL our hearts, mind & soul. Now, if these people choose to laze in their spiritual endeavors, it is really their choice in life to eventually reap the unpleasant.

 

[Steven_John]

I’m living as minority in Indonesia, indeed not an islamic country but most are muslims,
but I do see that their willingness to be hostages of their belief is more likely because of what they believe the real message of Islam, the tawheed, the oneness of God, simply that, that was the truth (they think) brought by Muhammad, nothing less. Other religions seems to apply some kind of shirk of associating partner with Allah, which they believe the most unforgivable sin, the only thing that they’re fearful of. To suggest that they are not given access of info from more secular world is not addressing the real matter, because in this internet era, info is free, the world they say is becoming flat. Indonesia do have access to even the most hostile website of faith freedom that could ignite muslims to fire.

But most muslims don’t really study their theology or disputes around their prophet and prophethood , they only adhere to the most basic principal of tawheed and observe most basic practice of the five pillars of Islam that they think will wash away their sin, which truly is so simple and for them is also logical. Given the situation of the secular world of the West that promotes too much freedom they could handle, they would of course think that islam is their truly only answer to the right way of conduct.

So I don’t think most effort to dissuade them by exposing them of Muhammad’s character will help to enlighten them their religion’s problem.
Most of us are only observer of their ridiculousness, but I think it’s really difficult to really change them if that’s your only weapon.

Best regards

Hi where i live Muslims are a minority but what you offer about them is very similar.
I used to gently challenge what they believe but most would just shut down.
I have found it more fruitful to just ask does Allah want us to… they have never disputed any narrations of Yeshua (pbwh) i offer this way.

If i was to offer a fear they have of conversion where i live it is because they do not want to be like our society as a whole, loud advocating, nudity, homosexuality, free sex, abortion and so on.

We can stand and say but thats not what the Christians support they will rightly explain no but your way has allowed them.

It was not too long past when Christian values were dominant and intolerant of descent in my country, an age of seemingly better moral standard.

Freedom is unattractive to them, product of my near ancestors.

Bless ya

 

[Vile_Servant]

If i was to offer a fear they have of conversion where i live it is because they do not want to be like our society as a whole, loud advocating, nudity, homosexuality, free sex, abortion and so on.

This is very true. A tree is judged by its fruits, so it is extremely difficult to promote Catholicicm or Christianity if we ourselves do not fully obey the teachings and commandments of Jesus.

One example I can cite is pornography, which is banned in most Muslim countries, is freely available in many Western “Christian” countries. Pornography and porn addiction has led to unprecedented erosion in morals and has attacked the very fabric of the family.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:27-28)

 

[Mosacked]

This is very true. A tree is judged by its fruits, so it is extremely difficult to promote Catholicicm or Christianity if we ourselves do not fully obey the teachings and commandments of Jesus.

One example I can cite is pornography, which is banned in most Muslim countries, is freely available in many Western “Christian” countries. Pornography and porn addiction has led to unprecedented erosion in morals and has attacked the very fabric of the family.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:27-28)

VS, on this topic, I’d just like to ask you this ‘side’ question.

If the woman is not married and you are not married and you lust after her…in your heart. Have you already committed adultery?

Nobody is sinless. But that doesn’t mean that just because I sin you are allowed to sin. That’s precisely the stand frequently adopted by demons who possess human hosts. When the exorcist tries to cast them out…the demon starts to speak of the shames & sins of the exorcist…what happens??? “HIISSS…, WHO ARE YOU, YOU PATHETIC PRIEST WHO OGLES AT YOUR NEIGHBOR’S DAUGHTER’S SEXY LEGS TO EVEN ATTEMPT THIS CASTING-OUT!!!”

This is why even the angels do not dare to condemn Satan…because ONLY GOD CAN DO IT. They frequently say 'God…".

What we must know is that on our part, we do our BEST…but our best is never enough. That’s why JESUS came. We can and will sin…but we always confess & repent and improve eventually in hope of attaining salvation. BUT…allowing the sinner to remain in sin by convicting us of imperfection is the way of the devil.

ONLY THE TRUTH CAN SET US FREE.
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[Steven_John]

This is very true. A tree is judged by its fruits, so it is extremely difficult to promote Catholicicm or Christianity if we ourselves do not fully obey the teachings and commandments of Jesus.

One example I can cite is pornography, which is banned in most Muslim countries, is freely available in many Western “Christian” countries. Pornography and porn addiction has led to unprecedented erosion in morals and has attacked the very fabric of the family.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:27-28)

Peace and blessings Bro, i am not sure you understood what i was trying to say.

I suggested that as the Christians have allowed the pagans so much freedom in the western world, Muslims are suspect of freedom.

Freedom has allowed the pagans to do things that are against G-d dilutes and influences Christians who are for G-d.

It makes allowing pagans freedom look like Christianity lacks G-ds power .

What you say is true but Muslims know their own fall also.

Bless ya

 

[KathleenGee]

I live in the state whose populace traditionally has had the most hostility to organized religion. It is more socialist. Forty four percent of the population controls the rest and taxation is the preferred way of revenue…we are among the first to be bankrupt.

We moved to a beautiful area of the city. One day we saw a sign going up at the restaurant that had been for sale for some time. Finally, words were put on the sign, ‘Adult Fantasy Video’. We were outraged. The city was outraged.

We found out a lawyer, foreign born from Europe, worked for 20 years with the State Supreme Court to take out any loopholes. All about total freedom of expression. The police, representatives of city council, our neighborhood association, were all told we could do nothing about it.

What is particularly bad, my neighbors said, was seeing people patronizing that filth 24 hours a day…now it is seeing schoolbuses taking the children around the front window with the girl mannequins nearly naked, to go to their homes behind the building. Across the strip is the Muslim-Hispanic state houses put up and apartment buildings.

I think of all the countless human beings conceived through this means, and probably aborted.

I want to take a picture and blow it up showing the children on the bus as it drives directly in front of the window…and ask if this is what they want their kids to remember from their childhood in this ‘city of roses’…

People worked to get an initiative to get porn out of our neighborhood. The protestants and some others ran it. I came in and said I could get the archdiocese to help. They didn’t want our help. They were not getting the signatures…and they were getting close to the deadline. So I got a copy of the paperwork and walked in with it ot the diocese and all the parishes worked to get it on the ballot…but the people of the state were so confused that they ended up with an 81% victory to keep porn in family neighborhoods.

 

[Mosacked]

I live in the state whose populace traditionally has had the most hostility to organized religion. It is more socialist. Forty four percent of the population controls the rest and taxation is the preferred way of revenue…we are among the first to be bankrupt.

We moved to a beautiful area of the city. One day we saw a sign going up at the restaurant that had been for sale for some time. Finally, words were put on the sign, ‘Adult Fantasy Video’. We were outraged. The city was outraged.

We found out a lawyer, foreign born from Europe, worked for 20 years with the State Supreme Court to take out any loopholes. All about total freedom of expression. The police, representatives of city council, our neighborhood association, were all told we could do nothing about it.

What is particularly bad, my neighbors said, was seeing people patronizing that filth 24 hours a day…now it is seeing schoolbuses taking the children around the front window with the girl mannequins nearly naked, to go to their homes behind the building. Across the strip is the Muslim-Hispanic state houses put up and apartment buildings.

I think of all the countless human beings conceived through this means, and probably aborted.

I want to take a picture and blow it up showing the children on the bus as it drives directly in front of the window…and ask if this is what they want their kids to remember from their childhood in this ‘city of roses’…

People worked to get an initiative to get porn out of our neighborhood. The protestants and some others ran it. I came in and said I could get the archdiocese to help. They didn’t want our help. They were not getting the signatures…and they were getting close to the deadline. So I got a copy of the paperwork and walked in with it ot the diocese and all the parishes worked to get it on the ballot…but the people of the state were so confused that they ended up with an 81% victory to keep porn in family neighborhoods.

Kathleen,

have you ever wondered why God left the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden of Eden instead of hiding it (that Adam & Eve may not even have a chance to sin) ?

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[Steven_John]

Across the strip is the Muslim-Hispanic state houses put up and apartment buildings.

whats a state house?

People worked to get an initiative to get porn out of our neighborhood. The protestants and some others ran it. I came in and said I could get the archdiocese to help. They didn’t want our help. They were not getting the signatures…and they were getting close to the deadline. So I got a copy of the paperwork and walked in with it ot the diocese and all the parishes worked to get it on the ballot…but the people of the state were so confused that they ended up with an 81% victory to keep porn in family neighborhoods.

I think that is real sad where i live we are very co-operative on issues of moral justice. I pray they learned we are to stand with people on what we share in common. I wonder if it is because we have strong relationships even in good times. It may be a bit of an Aussie thing even in the days when Catholics and Protestants were not allowed in each others church buildings (fear of spontaneous combustion LOL) they would still do lamington (cake) fund raisers side by side.

I would not like to start debate but i do wonder if democracy is in some form the Anti - christ she legitimises hearts to sin. We allow her authority to do so.

Sharia law in concept is truth, G-ds people should look after those who are outside so as not to bring harm to themselves. They dont have heart for the law so they will stay in it forsaking punishment in this world.

G-d is a kingdom G-d not democracy.

I know men can not make or up hold laws that do His love justice.

Corruption and self interest creeps in ie some sharia law makers allow maira marriage. Priests have abused positions of authority and we have seen dictators in history.

Laws legitimise crime.

IMO neither democracy or holy law will keep the moral standard we just need to stay strong until the end and see our sufferings in the smallness they are compared to what many have suffered for us.

Its all going to be very cool in the end. Praise B 2 G-d

 

[KathleenGee]

Mosacked,

All I can answer is with another in cheek, …it is said we will have a new heaven and a new earth…but no where is it mentioned that we will have a new hell…

Stephen John,

And the Americans here can clarify me… America is supposed to be a republic.

Democracy is dangerous…because if you get subversives-- who are very patient as those here have been–, they slowly creep in to whittle down morality…do character assasinations scaring good people from going into public office, the materialistic culture promoting consumerism and self centeredness…so if you end up with a democracy whose values are no longer yours. The vast majority of Americans are marginalized, powerless. But people are now rising up all over the country. Thank God. I am praying on my novena for our country as well…and the world. We are ready for a religious revival…and healing between Catholics and Protestants.

Also, we noted how the subversives in Congress were allowing foreigners in who did not have judeoChristian values, oppose English as our common language --the United States now does not have an official language. And the foreigners who do not have JudeoChristian values will sue anybody opposing their imposition of foreign values on our people.

After forty years later, the American public is waking up. And the Holy Spirit is guiding in private prayer groups that this has to happen for people to see. If they didn’t see, they would still not be sure what was going on.

The state built those homes for these Muslims and other foreign born people. They got them good cars, and support them. I have had two experiences with them…one deliberately put the wrong gas in my diesel car and another rear ended my car very hard that left their license plate number imprinted on my fender and told authorities no damage…and they aren’t friendly. But I drive by their houses all the time, and the Holy Spirit is inspiring me to make friends with them.

Any human entity, for it to be good, must retain a moral character to it.

What people don’t realize about our country, is that it is this tiny, most powerful minority that is in tandem with the press, public education whose sex abuse is 100 times that of American clergy but press is mostly silent. People are now exploding because there has been tremendous damage done to our country in many aspects, not just one, most of all the innocence and purity of our children, and the welfare and dignity of the family. True religion protects the family, the child, the human person.

 

[Steven_John]

Sr you are such a beautiful one.
In our country we are learning grouping people in areas is bad news. we need to disperse them among us.

The thing we have yet to learn here is you can buy love and should not think you can.

We spend money on people here and complain they are ungrateful. We think stuff will make us good people and giving stuff will make good people.

We were supposed to have learned this in our own affluent child hoods, we cried in the shop for a lolly or toy, got it and moved on to another desire.

Integrating of society is real difficult stuff and takes generations, the bible teaches this and we cant improve on Him in those stories unless we really do as Yeshua (pbwh) teaches without expectation of us reaping that gets done by those who follow us in the same light.

Having said that i have been blessed to reap some.

Western society needs to learn G-d is with the patient, we live in fast times. G-d wants us to slow and listen to Him, our chosen ancestors waited a generation to have milk and honey, we have it want more and yesterday.

Times will be tough in this western world one day if we dont fix credit in our lives. The east will become west and the west will complain at the fruit of impatience.

Bless ya

 

[Mosacked]

Mosacked,

All I can answer is with another in cheek, …it is said we will have a new heaven and a new earth…but no where is it mentioned that we will have a new hell…

Well, my point is this and I have learnt this meditating over the years.

Whether the situation is good or bad, moral or immoral…things happen for a reason. Whether it is to give us the opportunity to correct it, give us the opportunity to train ourselves, test us, show where we really stand, show the evil in us, or even let the evil put forth their evil in all its odious showing…its there because God allowed it.

Perhaps to you, its immoral or even inhuman, but God lets it so because THOSE ARE ITS NATURAL BEING. And only by allowing the evil to remain evil can judgement truly exert itself and send these people to eternal hell fire.

Remember, you cannot sentence a murderer to capital punishments (if that is the law), unless you let that murderer MURDER. And I really thank God for His great wisdom.

If the world is as perfect as you would like it, how are we to test the chosen?

.

 

[Mosacked]

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."

Anyone who thinks that his love can do to evil men, what God’s love cannot do is not only deceiving himself but also un-discerningly accomodating evil.

 

[KathleenGee]

Stephen John and Mosacked,

I am trying to not be too involved during Lent…

Stephen John, we have had damage to our home, I am always agitated because the work comes in spurts, I think I am going to get the work paid, and then I have a cut back…and always in a rush…and what you shared about slowing down…even to pay off bills, is what I am getting these past few days…

That it is better to be centered in the Lord and in peace and not agitated or worried, but trust everything will be done in His time…because if we are serving Him in His time, inspite of the activity around us, His kingdom is then extended to those around us and fruit for the Kingdom is much greater than thinking off the bills, paying of the bills, bills, bills…but peace! like a river!

Mosacked, yes it is true that the unjust refine us and drawing us closer to the Lord and His image…and thus also fulfill the will of God and how important it is for us to bless our enemies…

So we can offset particular Islamic’s other standards by blessing them, and allowing the suffering imposed on us to be an even greater grace…

For it is true, that Love is the most enduring!

So I would say this thread has been very beneficial for growth in Lent!

God bless you both!

Kathleen

 

[Mosacked]

Stephen John and Mosacked,

I am trying to not be too involved during Lent…

Stephen John, we have had damage to our home, I am always agitated because the work comes in spurts, I think I am going to get the work paid, and then I have a cut back…and always in a rush…and what you shared about slowing down…even to pay off bills, is what I am getting these past few days…

That it is better to be centered in the Lord and in peace and not agitated or worried, but trust everything will be done in His time…because if we are serving Him in His time, inspite of the activity around us, His kingdom is then extended to those around us and fruit for the Kingdom is much greater than thinking off the bills, paying of the bills, bills, bills…but peace! like a river!

Mosacked, yes it is true that the unjust refine us and drawing us closer to the Lord and His image…and thus also fulfill the will of God and how important it is for us to bless our enemies…

So we can offset particular Islamic’s other standards by blessing them, and allowing the suffering imposed on us to be an even greater grace…

For it is true, that Love is the most enduring!

So I would say this thread has been very beneficial for growth in Lent!

God bless you both!

Kathleen

Kathleen, I used to be like you, constantly asking “why are evil and immoral men enjoying themselves and harming others, while the good are left to suffer”???

Until I realised the truth in this statement “LET EVIL RUN ITS COURSE”

It really is just one word - Faith. Faith in believing that God will do what He promised. The good and faithful shall be rewarded, the evil punished & eternally condemned.

.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, and in the Dialogues of St. Catherine of Siena she remarks that even those who do evil fulfill God’s work because they purify us…

I worked with foreign missionaries and the ones who spoke out the most against social injustices were the very ones who got more into politics and lost sight of the Eucharist…