Why is it better to be Catholic?

[nogames]

nogames:

I’d like to know then, what specific kind of error would it take for a Christian church to truly be a false church? Can you provide an example or two?

If you don’t know the difference in worship and “churches” like The People’s Temple, I can’t help you. You know very well what the difference is. Disagreeing with an established religion because you think it’s wrong doesn’t make the Church false. I don’t agree with half the things Baptists believe, but I don’t call the Baptists followers of a false religion even if I don’t believe they’re correct. They’re Christians. Not my place to judge.

You’re attempting a trap. I’m not biting.

No, I’m not attempting to trap you. I’m asking a perfectly valid question. And as I said before, anyone can claim to be “a follower of Christ”. But as the bible clearly tells us, there are going to be “costs” involved with following Him, and most people aren’t going to do it if the costs are too high. Its a lot easier to tell everyone how tolerant you are of different points of view…than to BOLDLY take a side and get involved in the ongoing war for the souls of those who are being deceived. Sitting on the fence isn’t really living is it?

 

[Pup7]

But as the bible clearly tells us, there a going to be “costs” involved with following Him, and most people aren’t going to do it if the costs are too high. Its a lot easier to tell everyone how tolerant you are of different points of view…than to BOLDLY take a side and get involved in the ongoing war for the souls of those who are being deceived. Sitting on the fence isn’t really living is it?

How am I sitting on the fence? There’s no fence, nogames. No fence at all.

Costs don’t mean you get to provoke someone by poking them. That’s not the costs Jesus was talking about. That’s on your heart and conscience, not mine. You’re provoking people by attacking their beliefs - actually, you did more than attack, to be honest. That has nothing to do with what Jesus has said. He didn’t say “go out and provoke those who don’t agree with you”. That’s not apologetics, nogames.

Ironically, those are GAMES.

 

[nogames]

nogames:

But as the bible clearly tells us, there a going to be “costs” involved with following Him, and most people aren’t going to do it if the costs are too high. Its a lot easier to tell everyone how tolerant you are of different points of view…than to BOLDLY take a side and get involved in the ongoing war for the souls of those who are being deceived. Sitting on the fence isn’t really living is it?

How am I sitting on the fence? There’s no fence, nogames. No fence at all.

Costs don’t mean you get to provoke someone by poking them. That’s not the costs Jesus was talking about. That’s on your heart and conscience, not mine. You’re provoking people by attacking their beliefs - actually, you did more than attack, to be honest. That has nothing to do with what Jesus has said. He didn’t say “go out and provoke those who don’t agree with you”. That’s not apologetics, nogames.

Ironically, those are GAMES.

What “game” was it that got people so angry at Jesus that they tortured and killed Him? What sort of “games” got most of the apostles killed? Why is your anger directed at me? Did I say something that isn’t true?

 

[deMontfort]

I’m equal opportunity. I’ll flag you for Catholic bashing, and at the same time I’ll flag Trads for Protestant bashing.

 

[deMontfort]

Exactly. I’d never dream of claiming a Protestant wasn’t Christian. I’m certainly not Baptist and have no desire to become Baptist, but you know what? I still occasionally listen to Baptist sermons (I really like Charles Stanley and Billy Graham). The only ones I’d actually avoid like the plague are Calvinists (I absolutely despise Calvinism), but even then I’d never say that Calvinists weren’t Christian.

 

[Pup7]

(I really like Charles Stanley and Billy Graham).

Oh, if anyone is in Heaven I’m pretty certain Billy Graham is. I’ve even heard Cardinal Dolan talk about how much he admired Billy Graham. What was not to admire?

I’m equal opportunity. I’ll flag you for Catholic bashing, and at the same time I’ll flag Trads for Protestant bashing.

Exactly. Both are wrong. I’ve done that myself.

What “game” was it that got people so angry at Jesus that they tortured and killed Him? What sort of “games” got most of the apostles killed? Why is your anger directed at me? Did I say something that isn’t true?

You’re refusing to acknowledge that you have blatantly said the Catholic Church is a false church.

That’s the game, nogames.

They murdered the Messiah because they disbelieved - among other reasons. Context.

You’re still twisting words. You’re still playing games.

You’re not “bashing” because I am Christian. You’re not bashing me for my belief in God, Jesus Christ, the Resurrection, the whole of the entire belief system.

You’re not turning against me because I believe in the Bible.

You’re turning against the Catholic Church simply because she doesn’t agree with you on everything.

“Hating” us as Christians would be different if you were outside the Christian faith. But you say you are Christian. News flash: so are we. So why you feel compelled to do what you’ve done I don’t know.

Do you do this to Methodists? Lutherans? Free Will Baptists? Many of them also disagree with you on multiple points. Do you treat them the same way? Or is this all motivated by the fact that we believe in Papal authority, Mary as the Immaculate Conception, and intercessory prayer?

 

[nogames]

You’re refusing to acknowledge that you have blatantly said the Catholic Church is a false church.

That’s the game, nogames.

That is what I said. I acknowledge that, but how is that a game? Why do my opinions matter so much to you if your assumption is that my opinions on the Catholic Church are wrong? Are you always angry at people who disagree with your opinions? If so, how is that helping you?

I have Catholic friends, atheist friends, and friends who strongly disagree with my political views. None of them think that I’m a “hater” for disagreeing with their most cherished views. I’m just trying to understand what it is that got you so upset.

 

[deMontfort]

Oh, if anyone is in Heaven I’m pretty certain Billy Graham is. I’ve even heard Cardinal Dolan talk about how much he admired Billy Graham. What was not to admire?

I think it was, in fact, Billy Graham that first put me in conflict with the Trads and caused me to lose all sympathy for them: I made that RIP Billy Graham thread and I was appalled when Trads came in saying Graham was sent to hell because he was Protestant. That really irked me.

 

[Pup7]

That is what I said. I acknowledge that, but how is that a game? Why do my opinions matter so much to you if your assumption is that my opinions on the Catholic Church are wrong? Are you always angry at people who disagree with your opinions? If so, how is that helping you?

I don’t care if you disagree.

What upsets me is the way you attempt to twist what I say, as you have done here in multiple posts, attempting to draw random conclusions from what I type in a few posts.

 

[nogames]

nogames:

That is what I said. I acknowledge that, but how is that a game? Why do my opinions matter so much to you if your assumption is that my opinions on the Catholic Church are wrong? Are you always angry at people who disagree with your opinions? If so, how is that helping you?

I don’t care if you disagree.

What upsets me is the way you attempt to twist what I say, as you have done here in multiple posts, attempting to draw random conclusions from what I type in a few posts.

I’m sorry if I misunderstood and twisted things that you’ve said. That is not my intention at all.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I’d like to know then, what specific kind of error would it take for a Christian church to truly be a false church? Can you provide an example or two?

No belief in Christ as Son of God and savior ie rejection of the divinity of Christ and the triune God.

Pretty basic stuff. So long as your belief system includes this, you are at the very least a Christian community.

 

[Pup7]

I think it was, in fact, Billy Graham that first put me in conflict with the Trads and caused me to lose all sympathy for them: I made that RIP Billy Graham thread and I was appalled when Trads came in saying Graham was sent to hell because he was Protestant. That really irked me.

I found it, well, disgusting myself. Nothing like condemning fellow Christians.

 

[nogames]

nogames:

I’d like to know then, what specific kind of error would it take for a Christian church to truly be a false church? Can you provide an example or two?

No belief in Christ as Son of God and savior ie rejection of the divinity of Christ and the triune God.

Pretty basic stuff. So long as your belief system includes this, you are at the very least a Christian community.

If being “Christian” is enough for you then maybe it is no big deal what we believe on topics like, what must I do to be saved. If being “Christian” is enough for you then it probably won’t matter that much whether the church founded by Jesus is the Catholic Church. But these things are HUGE, and these things do matter…even to the extent that our souls will perish if we believe certain “Christian” teachings that are false. I’m not judging you or your beliefs (which I don’t even know), I’m just pointing out that being part of the “Christian community” is probably not always an advantage.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

mrsdizzyd:

nogames:

I’d like to know then, what specific kind of error would it take for a Christian church to truly be a false church? Can you provide an example or two?

No belief in Christ as Son of God and savior ie rejection of the divinity of Christ and the triune God.

Pretty basic stuff. So long as your belief system includes this, you are at the very least a Christian community.

If being “Christian” is enough for you then maybe it is no big deal what we believe on topics like, what must I do to be saved. If being “Christian” is enough for you then it probably won’t matter that much whether the church founded by Jesus is the Catholic Church. But these things are HUGE, and these things do matter…even to the extent that our souls will perish if we believe certain “Christian” teachings that are false.

There you go twisting words again. You asked what kind of error it would take for a church to be declared false. I answered you by saying it would take non-belief in the divinity of Christ and his salvation.

I never said this was “enough” for me.

There are a whole host of ways one can be in error without actually denying Christ.

 

[nogames]

nogames:

mrsdizzyd:

nogames:

I’d like to know then, what specific kind of error would it take for a Christian church to truly be a false church? Can you provide an example or two?

No belief in Christ as Son of God and savior ie rejection of the divinity of Christ and the triune God.

Pretty basic stuff. So long as your belief system includes this, you are at the very least a Christian community.

If being “Christian” is enough for you then maybe it is no big deal what we believe on topics like, what must I do to be saved. If being “Christian” is enough for you then it probably won’t matter that much whether the church founded by Jesus is the Catholic Church. But these things are HUGE, and these things do matter…even to the extent that our souls will perish if we believe certain “Christian” teachings that are false.

There you go twisting words again. You asked what kind of error it would take for a church to be declared false. I answered you by saying it would take non-belief in the divinity of Christ and his salvation.

I never said this was “enough” for me.

There are a whole host of ways one can be in error without actually denying Christ.

I agree with you.

 

[Pup7]

So because you believe things are false, they’re false?

That’s what I just read.

I’d love to be at your pay grade if you know these things irrevocably - which I know you don’t.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I agree with you.

If that is the case, then you need to retract your declaration that the Catholic Church is a false church.

You may believe that the Catholic Church is in error (and you are entitled to your opinion), but to call it a false church is really beyond the pail. Catholics believe in the divinity of Christ, the triune God, that salvation is available to us as a result of Christ’s Sacrifice, the Bible as the divinely inspired word of God, etc.

 

[nogames]

nogames:

I agree with you.

If that is the case, then you need to retract your declaration that the Catholic Church is a false church.

You may believe that the Catholic Church is in error (and you are entitled to your opinion), but to call it a false church is really beyond the pail. Catholics believe in the divinity of Christ, the triune God, that salvation is available to us as a result of Christ’s Sacrifice, the Bible as the divinely inspired word of God, etc.

You are very entitled to your opinions about me. I stand by what I said, with the knowledge that being “Christian” isn’t enough for you, or me.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

mrsdizzyd:

nogames:

I agree with you.

If that is the case, then you need to retract your declaration that the Catholic Church is a false church.

You may believe that the Catholic Church is in error (and you are entitled to your opinion), but to call it a false church is really beyond the pail. Catholics believe in the divinity of Christ, the triune God, that salvation is available to us as a result of Christ’s Sacrifice, the Bible as the divinely inspired word of God, etc.

You are very entitled to your opinions about me. I stand by what I said, with the knowledge that being “Christian” isn’t enough for you, or me.

Then, you will be perpetually in violation of Conduct Rule #5. Your position with regards to the Catholic Church is disrespectful. As I said, you may believe Catholics are in error, but to declare the religion false is something else entirely.

1. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board. Catholics must be respectful of the legitimate religious preferences and practices of their fellow Catholics.

 

[deMontfort]

And he’s suspended. He can’t say he wasn’t warned.