Why is it better to be Catholic?

[tafan2]

The main point is that it seems logical that Christ would have left us something to interpret scripture accurately and to ensure we do not adopt false doctrines: a teaching authority. And when we look at scripture, we can find Christ doing exactly that.

“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church…I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and what ever you loose on earth shall be loose in heaven”.

Now, giving someone the “keys to the kingdom” actually meant something at the time of Christ. That’s what kings did with their vicars when they would be away, it was a sign of giving the vicar his full authority. So this would have made perfect sense to the apostles.

So it starts with having a teaching authority, that’s why we are Catholic.

Next, we are Catholic, because it is a sacramental Church. The more you study the early church and church fathers, you find that it too was a sacramental church. So we believe we have the fullness of the sacraments, which are the means of sanctifying grace that Jesus left for all of us.

Finally, we are Catholic because it is universal and one. Jesus created one Church, and desired us all to be one.

 

[MrsAngelala]

I apologize for coming across that way. I did not take offense. I was merely shocked.

Easily refutable factual errors:

Catholicism is heavily polluted with pagan traditions, customs, and anti-semitism, and biblical contradiction.

Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi that came to restablish the teachings God gave to His people at Mt Sinai (the Torah, Matthew 5:17-20) that Phariseeism had corrupted. Walk in Torah, keep the Feasts (Leviticus 23), and keep the (biblical Sabbath). This is what Jesus and all of His disciples (including Paul) taught.

You can find factual responses to all of your assertions in the first quote - very easily - on Catholic Answers. The second is simply a gross misreading of Scripture, which it is not possible to address in this format.

In addition, if such is your honest understanding of Scripture, I’m afraid I must suspect your reading of Church history. I wish that I could sit you down with my husband, who has a Protestant degree in Biblical and Theological Studies, and thus has some formal training in the reading of the Bible, which is not an easily-understood text. He took that training, used it through 18 months of reading on the Catholic Church from its own perspective, chose to submit his understanding to the Church Christ founded, and will officially convert in a few days. He is much more knowledgeable on these matters than I.

But I can offer you what I have, which is prayer. I will pray that Jesus, who alone knows your heart, will draw you closer to him. That’s pretty much my standard prayer with someone I can’t figure out how to understand, because it’s good for every single one of us.

 

[Thomas_Dogood]

I am a believer, and I’m not trying to debate. But I wil answer your questions briefly.

•Christmas & Easter (the big ones) - there’s plenty more (praying to dead people, statues/icons, sacraments, symbols, dressings like the Pope’s hat)

•Read Panarion 29, and Martin Luther’s “the Jews & their lies”. Jesus was Jewish, yet Catholicism has him depicted as a white person & stripped all Jewishness from him (Sabbath change, no biblical Feasts)

• 3 days & 3 nights

Why does the “Old Covenant” not apply? That’s directly opposed to what Jesus taught (Matthew 5:17-20), Paul (Romans 3:31, 15:4, Acts 21:19-26), James 1:22-25, 2:8). 1 John 3:4 defines sin as breaking the Law (Torah).

The “New Covenant” is ONLY for Israel, not Gentiles (Jeremiah 31:31-34). We are grafted in to Israel as believers (Romans 11:17), therefore God’s commands (Torah) for Israel are for believers in the Messiah.

Jesus is the Word (John 1:1), and the Word endures forever (Isaiah 40:8, 1 Peter) and God does not change (Malachi 3:6). Therefore, how can the “word of God” that He spoke at Sinai (Torah) be “done away with” or changed? It cannot be.

This was simply a brief answer.

Blessings!

 

[deMontfort]

I smell the Worldwide Church of God cult creeping in…

 

[theCardinalbird]

•Christmas & Easter (the big ones)

Oh boy…
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/o...www.catholic.com/qa/is-easter-a-pagan-holiday

praying to dead people

You mean the saints? Ya, that’s biblical:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-intercession-of-the-saints-0

statues/icons

Statues Aren't Necessarily Idols

Here’s a pop quiz I used to give in parish seminars: “You recall that the Israelites melted down their jewelry and made a golden calf. What was wrong with makin...

www.catholic.com

sacraments

Not sure what you mean by this

dressings like the Pope’s hat

You mean the mitre? You do realize its just a piece of clothing that has progressed throughout the ages yes?

3 days & 3 nights

Again, what are you talking about?

(Sabbath change, no biblical Feasts)

The Lord’s Day Replaced the Sabbath

While the Catholics agree with Seventh-day Adventists that Christians are obliged to keep the third commandment, we do not agree the obligatory day of worship is on the seventh day for New Covenant followers of Christ.

www.catholic.com

Why does the “Old Covenant” not apply? That’s directly opposed to what Jesus taught (Matthew 5:17-20), Paul (Romans 3:31, 15:4, Acts 21:19-26), James 1:22-25, 2:8). 1 John 3:4 defines sin as breaking the Law (Torah).

Why We Are Not Bound by Everything in the Old Law | Catholic Answers Magazine

The “New Covenant” is ONLY for Israel, not Gentiles (Jeremiah 31:31-34). We are grafted in to Israel as believers (Romans 11:17), therefore God’s commands (Torah) for Israel are for believers in the Messiah.

You claim that the new Covenant was for only Israel. Jesus said to baptize everyone of all nations

Matthew 28:
8 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[rondirect]

I am a believer, and I’m not trying to debate. But I wil answer your questions briefly.

•Christmas & Easter (the big ones) - there’s plenty more (praying to dead people, statues/icons, sacraments, symbols, dressings like the Pope’s hat)

Thomas, you as a non-Catholic or Protestant, and admittedly saying that you have done much research, respectfully, more is needed. I’ll mention a couple: there is a huge misconception about Catholics prayer to statues and icons. Yes, there are many in Catholic churches, but do you know what intercessory prayer is? Although one might sit in front of the statue of Mary, that person is asking Mary to be an intercessor to the Father regarding her prayer request, just like I would ask you to pray for me.

Anti-Semitism: not true. Did you know that a few years ago, Catholic composers that used the word Yahweh (a word never to muttered in a Jewish Temple), in their songs, in respect for the Jewish people, had to rewrite them and omit that word? During our Good Friday Liturgies, did you know that we pray for the Jewish people as the first to hear the Word of God?

Did your resources explain to what the meaning of the Immaculate Conception is? So misunderstood, like praying to statues. Please, without the use of the internet, explain the Immaculate Conception. I would like to know your answer. I’ll leave it at that for now.

As a believer, as you say, there are some misunderstandings. I mean no disrespect.

 

[Thomas_Dogood]

We become a part of Israel when we believe in Jesus as the Messiah (Romans 11:17). Jesus came for all people, and when we accept Him we become a part of his family - Israel. Think of a parent adopting a child, the child becomes a part of that family & obeys the commands of that particular household.

3 days & 3 nights - Friday evening - Sunday morning is Biblicially impossible according the Jesus and Mark & Luke

Everything else you gave was a “catholic” source. Give Scripture as your proof, not the doctrines created/stated by “Catholic Church fathers” or other men/women.

You can trace symbols back to paganism, and the hat is related to the pagan deity Dagon.

 

[theCardinalbird]

We become a part of Israel when we believe in Jesus as the Messiah (Romans 11:17). Jesus came for all people, and when we accept Him we become a part of his family - Israel. Think of a parent adopting a child, the child becomes a part of that family & obeys the commands of that particular household.

Ok what’s the quarrel then with the Church on this?

3 days & 3 nights - Friday evening - Sunday morning is Biblicially impossible according the Jesus and Mark & Luke

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

You can trace symbols back to paganism, and the hat is related to the pagan deity Dagon.

Really? How is it related?

 

[Thomas_Dogood]

We’ll have to agree to disagree. The Bible was written by Jewish authors from an ancient Eastern Hebraic (Jewish) perspective.

Much of Christianity reads it from a modern western English perspective with a Greek mindset.

I was a former Protestant that left Protestantism to follow Jesus, the Jewish Rabbi, when biblical things seemed to be a contradiction until I studied it from the Jewish perspective.

I wish we could sit down and talk too, I love talking with other believers about our faith.

I would submit that Jesus could not have established a new religion or changed any of what God gave at Sinai. Jesus and the father are one (John 10:30), Jesus doesn’t change (Hebrews 13:6-8), He is the Word (John 1:1) and the Word doesn’t change (Isaiah 40:8). If Jesus had changed any of what God gave or instructed ohers in new ways he would be a false prophet according to Deuteronomy 13

 

[Reuben_J]

I saw this post and I wanted to let it go. Yes, there were many claiming to be Popes at those period in time but we officially still recognize one official Pope. And for the record, not two or three Popes but one that is recognized as the valid Pope and thus recorded as such. If one looks into history, sure there were turbulent times and there were infigthings, which was to be expected except that the Gate of Hell will not prevail, and that the Church had one Pope at a time.

You are free to disagree. I am not perturbed about that because we can see this differently.

God bless.

 

[rondirect]

I saw this post and I wanted to let it go.

Me too, but it got the better of me. I’m movin’ on.

 

[PetraG]

Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi that came to restablish the teachings God gave to His people at Mt Sinai (the Torah, Matthew 5:17-20) that Phariseeism had corrupted. Walk in Torah, keep the Feasts (Leviticus 23), and keep the (biblical Sabbath). This is what Jesus and all of His disciples (including Paul) taught.

Jesus came and said “I am the Bread of Life” and “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”

Where did you get that St. Paul taught that everyone was supposed to keep Torah? He did not. If so, why was he so adamant about protecting converts from those who told them they had to be circumcised: “As for me, brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case, the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. Would that those who are upsetting you might also castrate themselves.” Gal 5:11-12
“We, who are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles, who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin?* Of course not! But if I am building up again those things that I tore down, then I show myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law,* that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.” Gal 2:15-21.

C.S. Lewis put it very well:
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
–C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

You know nothing whatsoever about what Jesus of Nazareth taught, save what was handed down by those convinced He was God. You can believe He was what they preached He was or you can believe you have no idea what he taught. Don’t presume to pick and choose what parts of the witness of the Apostles was “really” what he said and what was not. There is no independent record that would allow that.

 

[nogames]

You know nothing whatsoever about what Jesus of Nazareth taught, save what was handed down by those convinced He was God. You can believe He was what they preached He was or you can believe you have no idea what he taught. Don’t presume to pick and choose what parts of the witness of the Apostles was “really” what he said and what was not. There is no independent record that would allow that.

Hi PetraG, are you praising God or are you praising the church? My main issue with the Catholic Church is what I call, “The worship of a religion”. The church is loved by God, but a vast number of regular church attendees are lost souls. Narrow is the path that leads to salvation, and very few find it.

The point I’m making here is this: God has frequently used very horrible sinners (like Judas) to accomplish His purposes. The church, as it exists here on earth today isn’t worthy of our praise. All of us are horribly sinful individuals who deserve to be thrown into hell for all eternity.

So whenever I hear people praising the Catholic Church (for example by asserting that the CC gave us the bible) I get irritated. It is God who should be praised for giving us His life-giving word. We can all agree that His church was given a role in the writing and preservation of the bible, but as Scripture declares, “even our best works are (in God’s sight) as filthy rags.” If Jesus is THE WAY, then we should be praising and thanking Him; not a religious institution.

 

[PetraG]

Hi PetraG, are you praising God or are you praising the church? My main issue with the Catholic Church is what I call, “The worship of a religion”. The church is loved by God, but a vast number of regular church attendees are lost souls. Narrow is the path that leads to salvation, and very few find it.

The point I’m making here is this: God has frequently used very horrible sinners (like Judas) to accomplish His purposes. The church, as it exists here on earth today isn’t worthy of our praise. All of us are horribly sinful individuals who deserve to be thrown into hell for all eternity.

So whenever I hear people praising the Catholic Church (for example by asserting that the CC gave us the bible) I get irritated. It is God who should be praised for giving us His life-giving word. We can all agree that His church was given a role in the writing and preservation of the bible, but as Scripture declares, “even our best works are (in God’s sight) as filthy rags.” If Jesus is THE WAY, then we should be praising and thanking Him; not a religious institution.

I’m not praising the Church. I’m saying that it is nonsensical to imagine that anyone knows what Jesus taught or did, save from the written accounts that have survived. They say Jesus of Nazareth was the incarnate Son of God, not a rabbi who was fighting an intellectual sect within Judaism. (By the way, if you knew anything about the Pharisees of that time, you’d know what they were teaching was far closer to what Jesus taught than what the other rabbinic schools were teaching.)

If the Bible did not come via the Catholic Church, where did it come from? God didn’t send any signed first editions straight from the Heavenly Publishing House. God chose to use the people who were the bishops and teachers in the early Church.

The Bible is very clear that teaching authority was placed in the persons of the bishops, who were promised the Holy Spirit would be there to guide them. If you do not like that flimsy set-up, contact the Complaint Department.

As for Judas, this is what Our Lord had to say:
When it was evening, he came with the Twelve. And as they reclined at table and were eating, Jesus said, “Amen, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.” They began to be distressed and to say to him, one by one, “Surely it is not I?” He said to them, “One of the Twelve, the one who dips with me into the dish. For the Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.” (Mark 14:17-21)

That is not what he said to Peter after the Resurrection. He told him to feed his lambs and to feed his sheep. He gave him the role of shepherd.

 

[nogames]

If the Bible did not come via the Catholic Church, where did it come from? God didn’t send any signed first editions straight from the Heavenly Publishing House. God chose to use the people who were the bishops and teachers in the early Church.

The Bible is very clear that teaching authority was placed in the persons of the bishops, who were promised the Holy Spirit would be there to guide them. If you do not like that flimsy set-up, contact the Complaint Department.

Thanks for your reply. As I’ve already said, this emphasis on WHICH CHURCH (as if there were more than one) is the “correct” one, is just church (or religion) worship and not worthwhile at all. The Muslims worship their religion too, but how is that a good thing?

What if you are right? Are you going to argue that “being right” about your religion makes you saved? How did that work out for the Pharisees? Facts (the truth) is infinitely better than our own individual speculations on which religious institutions are closest to God’s prescribed form, and my priority is to let God’s word be my ultimate and final authority. To God be all glory, honor, and worship!

 

[PetraG]

Thanks for your reply. As I’ve already said, this emphasis on WHICH CHURCH (as if there were more than one) is the “correct” one, is just church (or religion) worship and not worthwhile at all. The Muslims worship their religion too, but how is that a good thing?

What if you are right? Are you going to argue that “being right” about your religion makes you saved? How did that work out for the Pharisees? Facts (the truth) is infinitely better than our own individual speculations on which religious institutions are closest to God’s prescribed form, and my priority is to let God’s word be my ultimate and final authority. To God be all glory, honor, and worship!

The Muslims DO NOT worship their religion. That is simply unjust. Say what you want about them, but their whole day revolves around recognition of the supremacy of the God of Abraham.

I have been talking only about objective facts concerning the person of Jesus and why I believe them. I don’t remember writing a single word about my personal likelihood of reaching the Beatific Vision, although one would generally think that if only for the sake of the truth that having objective facts straight is better than to be in error. You are the one who seems to think he has the inside information to pronounce that “a vast number of regular church attendees are lost souls,” not me.

I’m only saying that if you want God’s word to be your final authority and you believe the Bible to be that word, then the plain meaning of that word is that the Church was intended to remain his one Body, that towards that end she was placed under the sure guardianship of the Holy Spirit that she might be unified in thought and love until the Lord returns, that it was inevitable that some would come along incorrectly preaching the Gospel in ways not handed on by the Apostles, since that happened from the very beginning, but that the Church can be trusted to have the truth even if she is also certain to be lead by human beings who make mistakes in their own personal behavior.

Someone asked why I’m Catholic. I think that is a straightforward reading of what the New Testament says. If you read it some other way, that is fine, but please do not sink to judging others as less ardent in their love of God than you are because they believe a long-standing and sensible interpretation of the very Book you are using as your authority as the basis for your condemnation.

 

[MichaelP3]

I see you got a few (too many) replies to your post proving exactly what I was stating

 

[PetraG]

I see you got a few (too many) replies to your post proving exactly what I was stating

Do you mean proof that you decided ahead of time that it is impossible to have proof? If you deny that you have decided that it is impossible to know the truth, describe what evidence would satisfy you.

Since you are posting to someone (nogames) who does believe that it necessary to submit to the word of God, show where the word of God says that God gave authority to interpret that word not to people who have the office of teaching but instead to private interpretation. Otherwise, give some evidence that there is no problem with having several schools of thought within Christianity that all disagree with each other. Give some evidence from the Bible that it was the practice of the early Church to accept many different interpretations of the faith.

My opinion is that you won’t find anything like that in the Bible. If you don’t like the idea of an objective truth and a single teaching that complies with the teaching of the Apostles, I think the plain meaning of the New Testament is that the Bible is not the guidebook for you and the Christianity that followed on the heels of Pentecost is not the religion for you.

 

[rondirect]

Hi PetraG, are you praising God or are you praising the church? My main issue with the Catholic Church is what I call, “The worship of a religion”. The church is loved by God, but a vast number of regular church attendees are lost souls. Narrow is the path that leads to salvation, and very few find it.

The point I’m making here is this: God has frequently used very horrible sinners (like Judas) to accomplish His purposes. The church, as it exists here on earth today isn’t worthy of our praise. All of us are horribly sinful individuals who deserve to be thrown into hell for all eternity.

So whenever I hear people praising the Catholic Church (for example by asserting that the CC gave us the bible) I get irritated. It is God who should be praised for giving us His life-giving word. We can all agree that His church was given a role in the writing and preservation of the bible, but as Scripture declares, “even our best works are (in God’s sight) as filthy rags.” If Jesus is THE WAY, then we should be praising and thanking Him; not a religious institution.

nogames, please carry on with your debate with PetraG as long as you want, but stating that you get “irritated” from what people say about the Catholic church in the above quote, has me, as I am sure others as well, irritated as well. So, you really the think the main issue with the CC is that they worship their religion? Ridiculous! As a Catholic within ministry of the church for many years, I have never heard anyone speak the church in this off-the-wall way. Never. No church is worthy of praise, only God is. And, my friend, that is what Catholics do: They praise God at Mass and not the Church. We pray for the church, yes, just as we do for the world and our brothers and sisters.

Who do you talk to? Where do you hear such nonsense?

 

[MichaelP3]

I actually posted to @rondirect whom I got the feeling is Catholic from his/her post?

Other than that I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or attempting to get at.