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Hosh
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I have no idea as to what exactly I searched. My idea would be “messianic prophecies” or “messianic prophecies Jewish”… I think the book of Isaiah was heavily quoted…
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BenBornAgain
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The books of the New Testament are historical, see here.
Now you can refuse to believe the claims of Jesus, but you cannot deny he made them…
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BenBornAgain
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You can check this article:
The Messiah in the Tanakh (the Old Testament) in the Light of Rabbinical Writings
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Kaninchen
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Pious fictions tend to work like that.
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7_Sorrows
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in your post you mentioned other prophets who negated Jesus being the messiah. isaiah is quoted heavily as pointing to Jesus being the messiah in the Christian world. so i wondered which prophets negated Jesus.
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Steven_Ager_MD
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I do hope that 7 Sorrows will forgive me for piggy-backing on his/her comment, but I do have a general comment about the primary question:
I believe that Jesus was/is a genius who originated a brilliant and humane philosophical change of mind and change of heart in untold hundreds of millions, perhaps billions, of people, largely for the better, despite unfortunate things done in His name by many who misundersood Him and I also believe in the perfect right of everyone who holds Him to be divine and as their savior to do so, and to love Him and pray to Him as is their preference.
I love people who love Jesus, those who truly love Jesus. And I am glad for those among them who are so joyous in their love for Him that they wish others would share their joy in loving Him.
But to waste one's own and God's time praying that He would change His mind and persuade Jewish people to recognize Jesus as savior? Why would God waste His time trying to get me to change who I am? I am quite sure that He has quite enough to do already (As I recall from the Book of *Genesis*, even He needs a rest once in a while). And don't I have free will? If I choose to love and admire Catholic people who are good Catholics, why would Catholic people not respect me for that, and be content with my being a good Jew, at least by my own reckoning.
Further, aren't there enough Catholics who could become better, more loving Catholics with your help? Isn't that your proper concern? Also, aren't there Protestants, fellow Christians, who contemn you? Why concern yourselves with Jews who, at the very worst, just want to be left alone?
Candidly, I confess that I find the very question, "Why is it important that Jews recognize Jesus?" to reflect an attitude that is, if not actually unclean, then certainly patronizing. With all due respect, I would turn it around and ask, "Why is it so important *to you* that Jews recognize Jesus?"
I would ask you to be our friends or not, accept our love or not, love us or not: But please don't be like the proverbial Boy Scout who "helps" the elderly lady navigate an intersection she never wanted to cross in the first place.
Thank you so very much for your kind attention to my words.Philadelphia/Cherry Hill
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7_Sorrows
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excellent and well thought out post. when i took the discovering judaism class, i realized that the covenant established between God and the Jewish people is not “old” as in the “old testament”. but the Jewish community is much like the Christian community - they are involved in synagogue life, their families, their communities. they have adult education classes at the synagogues and many other activities surrounding study of the scriptures and the Jewish holidays. the synagogue hopes to enrich the life of the Jewish person just as the church hopes to enrich the life of the Christian.the 3 words i remember most from my study were tefillah, tzedakah and teshuvah (i hope that i spelled them correctly - it has been awhile). tefillah is prayer, tzedakah is charity and teshuvah is repentence and i believe that Jesus taught all 3 of those as well.
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KyivAndrew
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Hi Doc. Welcome to CAF. I agree the original question is loaded. But the OP was posted by Splinker, a conservative Jew, who is somewhere on this board but I can’t find him right now. It’s his thread.
He’ll probably show up sometime again. 
God Bless.
Andrew
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Steven_Ager_MD
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Thank you for your kind words.
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HashemsDaughter
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You must realize that you and the Jewish people are reading the scripture through two very different types of glasses. You are using Jesus as your lens, so of course you are going to see the scripture pointing to Jesus as the Messiah. On the other hand, I as a Jew, do not have Jesus as my lens, I look at the scripture through a Jewish Lens, so for instance, I will look at the suffering servant, and see that as Israel, especially when I read the passages around it. It is important to not just read the little pieces of scripture put into the conversion tracts, you must read what comes before and after. That is what Jews are told to do, because it helps it make more sense.
May God Bless You and Keep You
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silentstar
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I am Catholic but I know there is a long history of Christian/Catholic persecution of the Jewish people. It seems to me that this history must be addressed by anyone who wants to convert them. Otherwise, the logical question is, why should I join a group that has done harm to my people over the centuries?
Some Jewish people find meaning in Christianity and convert. I’m talking about evangelizing to people who don’t want to hear it. Why should they assume that Jesus will save them, given what Christians have done? Which includes putting Jewish people in ghettos, blaming them for all kinds of things including plagues, expelling them from various countries when Christians decided they could no longer live with Jews, and sometimes even killing them.
The book Constantine’s Sword discusses this. It was written by James Carroll, a Catholic.
There have been many times and places in which Christians have been good to Jews, and they have gotten along well. But unfortunately that can’t be said for all of Christian history.
Some Jewish people find meaning in Christianity and convert. I’m talking about evangelizing to people who don’t want to hear it. Why should they assume that Jesus will save them, given what Christians have done? Which includes putting Jewish people in ghettos, blaming them for all kinds of things including plagues, expelling them from various countries when Christians decided they could no longer live with Jews, and sometimes even killing them.
The book Constantine’s Sword discusses this. It was written by James Carroll, a Catholic.
There have been many times and places in which Christians have been good to Jews, and they have gotten along well. But unfortunately that can’t be said for all of Christian history.
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Lapell
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If we were created for this world only, it would probably not matter so much.
But in the afterlife, will God not show Himself completely to those who will be with Him forever? When you see Jesus there as Lord of Lords and King of Kings, will you scream “Blasphemy!” or “Sacrilege!” then, even after God’s own explanation of His presence there?
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Lycorth
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Well-said!
We were not made for this world only, but for the next life. This is but part of our journey, a preparation for the big trip.
Both Gentiles and Jews are called to the same Lord, the same Faith, the same Obedience. God will make no distinctions between us based on race but on our Faith. Hence, no Jew is justified no matter how closely he follows Judaic practice (especially as modern Judaism is a different thing from actual Old Testament religion, if I understand correctly); faith in Christ and submission to His teachings is required, the same for us all.
We are under the New Covenant, not the Old - thank God.
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Steven_Ager_MD
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Part I
Being new here, I’m unfamiliar with the technical aspects of responding to others’ comments, and so I’m concerned that this may be formatted awkwardlly, but I would like to respond to at least a few of Answersplease’s comments. From the vigorous muscularity of Answersplease’s remarks, I will make the perhaps unwarranted assumption that Answersplease is male, and so, for reasons of style, will use male pronouns in referring to him. My apologies to all who are offended by this assumption.
First as to the apparent contradiction between my being pleased that some Roman Catholics are so joyous in their love for Jesus that they wish to share it with me but not wish them to try to do so without an invitation. If love of Jesus brings you joy, I’m glad for you. If you wish to share it with me, that’s fine too, but please, please, keep it to yourself. Respect my wish to be let alone. Were I to have a wife so desirable that other men would admire and desire her, that would be expectable–but I’d certainly want them to keep their thoughts and feelings to themselves, except to congratulate me for my good fortune. And, Answersplease, I congratulate you on having found Jesus. Loving Him is your solution. Please permit me to find my own.
Answersplease also says that God has commanded him and ALL Christians and Messianic Jews–to convert Jews to Christianity. No doubt there are some Jewish people for whom conversion to Christianity, whether Roman Catholicism or another branch of the tree, is a good course for them. Yet, if we are to believe the Torah and the New testament, then God speaks through many mouths. He has spoken with the tongues and points of view of many different men–and at least one woman. How many different prophets were there? Does God say the same thing through the medium of the clinically depressed Jeremiah as He does via other prophets? When the Prophetess Deborah speaks the word of God, are the words unisex, or might her womanhood influence her expression of His thoughts and wishes (I certainly would be surprised to learn somehow that she had a voice like Charlton Heston in the film The Ten Commandments). And the Apostles: did they all say precisely the same thing? Of course not!
Second, SINCE YOU ASKED, I will amplify on my previous comment, “…to reflect an attitude that is, if not actually unclean, then certainly patronizing.”
When you so disrespect something so central to a person as their religious identity, where do you stop?
Do you draw the line at choosing to not knock on their front door on a Sunday morning to distribute copies of The Watchtower as the JWs do?
Or do you behave as the overbearing Baptist “Christian Bookstore” owner mentioned in today’s “Catholic Q & A Featured Question: How do I deal with inappropriate proselytism?”
If you believe that the “Old Jew” down the block or “that Jewish kid” in your child’s class has no right to their own religious faith, how will your children react to that? Will they be as disrespectful as you, or might they take your disrespect further? Kids can be pretty cruel, you know, and they often act out what they perceive as their parents’ wishes.
Let me tell you a story: One Saturday afternoon in the Bronx when I was about eight years old, I was walking home and passing across the street from St. Nicholas of Tolentine Roman Catholic Church at the intersection of Fordham Road and University Avenue, both wide streets, so I felt pretty safe. I was small, never a good fighter, and believed that there were too many people around for some bigger kid to beat me up. There weren’t any guns back then, but the Bronx was still a pretty tough place where anything could happen, and sometimes did. I passed near a few boys playing on the sidewalk and one, older, larger, and much more heavily built than me turned around. and barked at me, “Kid–you Jewish?”
“Yes,” I answered, puzzled at his question.
“You crucified Christ!” he shouted, and spat at my face. “AND NOW I’M GOING TO CRUCIFY YOU!”
I turned and ran, desperately, fast, faster than I knew I could, not taking time to look back. By the time I made it home I had lost him and whoever of his friends that might have joined him. When you’re eight years old, you do tend to take people at their word, and it hadn’t ocurred to me that it would have been highly unlikely that he would be able to carry out his vow. But who told him that? What sort of adult, whether father or mother or member of the clergy would talk in front of their children and tell him that some other little children in the neighborhood had murdered Jesus? Apparently, some did. .
Two years later, I had learned to ride a bike in the street, and so was less vulnerable than as a pedestrian on the sidewalk. One day, though, I was on the sidewalk by the Aqueduct Park and was walking my bike there. I passed by a small crowd of much older boys, somewhere in their mid teens, with classically Irish faces. I hadn’t thought that I had done anything to offend them but one walked over and started spittng at me. Just spitting at me as I walked. Then the whole bunch surrounded me and, just for laughs, they all kept spitting at me, and they didn’t stop. I had no idea where this was leading to or what was going to happen to me. Some of the spittle, however, missed me and landed on the bike. I took out my handkerchief and slowly, methodically, began to clean the road dust and grime off my bicycle with that piece of spit. One by one, these older boys stopped spitting on me and started spitting on the bike, and I used their spit to continue cleaning. At one point I asked them to spit on a part which was particularly dirty, and they obliged me. Eventually they lost interest and wandered off.
Continued in Part II
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Steven_Ager_MD
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Part II
Were both of these sets of boys following the teaching of Jesus? The teachings of their parents? A priest? A nun? Did God command both groups of boys or only one to make my life as a Jew so awful that I would willingly convert and flee to Christendom? I mean, clearly, were I a Roman Catholic none of this would have happened. Then I would have the privilege of spitting on other little boys or terrifying other little boys with the threat of crucifiction. I would be following God’s commandment as interpreted by the adults I knew, Wouldn’t I?
Less than a half century before this, my father’s parents ran a bakery in the Eastern Polish City of Byalistock. It was peaceful until one day, as my grandmother told me, there was some sort of a religious parade and she said, a priest said to get the Jews. I don’t know if she heard this herself–after all, she was inside the store at the time–or someone told her this, and I wouldn’t know if the priest was Roman Catholic or Russian Orthodox, as Poland was ruled by the Tzar at the time. She and my grandfather started to close up the bakery when they heard shooting. My grandfather paniced, and ran off, abandoning his wife and the baby in her arms. She would never ever forgive him for that. She fled with the baby, while soldiers, perhaps they were Russian cossacks, shot at her, fortunately missing her and the baby. The family reunited and hid for about a week in somebody’s cellar, kind of Anna Frank-style, but without the pleasantries. The baby died. My father, however, just a year or two old then, lived. When the coast was relatively clear, they escaped and made their way to Jerusalem. After a two or three years of surviving in poverty, they somehow scraped together the funds to get to Marseilles where they boarded a ship for New York. They had a tragic life in New York, but I’ll spare you the details. I just want to make my point that if you don’t respect another person’s right to have their own religious beliefs, then sooner or later, someone, some psychotic person somewhere, will get into a position of power where they will act out the ultimate implications of what you believe God has commanded you to do.
Finally, now, I’m not acusing anyone presently around of spitting at anybody. I’m not accusing anyone presently around of threatening to crucify anybody. Nor am I accusing them of shooting at my grandmother. What I am saying, though, is that whoever blindly follows any commandment will eventually wnd up taking a position that defies common sense. And further, may I say that the louder someone proclaims to have the only answer, a one-size-fits-all type of religion, then I feel forced to wonder if that person is really so secure in their belief.
Were both of these sets of boys following the teaching of Jesus? The teachings of their parents? A priest? A nun? Did God command both groups of boys or only one to make my life as a Jew so awful that I would willingly convert and flee to Christendom? I mean, clearly, were I a Roman Catholic none of this would have happened. Then I would have the privilege of spitting on other little boys or terrifying other little boys with the threat of crucifiction. I would be following God’s commandment as interpreted by the adults I knew, Wouldn’t I?
Less than a half century before this, my father’s parents ran a bakery in the Eastern Polish City of Byalistock. It was peaceful until one day, as my grandmother told me, there was some sort of a religious parade and she said, a priest said to get the Jews. I don’t know if she heard this herself–after all, she was inside the store at the time–or someone told her this, and I wouldn’t know if the priest was Roman Catholic or Russian Orthodox, as Poland was ruled by the Tzar at the time. She and my grandfather started to close up the bakery when they heard shooting. My grandfather paniced, and ran off, abandoning his wife and the baby in her arms. She would never ever forgive him for that. She fled with the baby, while soldiers, perhaps they were Russian cossacks, shot at her, fortunately missing her and the baby. The family reunited and hid for about a week in somebody’s cellar, kind of Anna Frank-style, but without the pleasantries. The baby died. My father, however, just a year or two old then, lived. When the coast was relatively clear, they escaped and made their way to Jerusalem. After a two or three years of surviving in poverty, they somehow scraped together the funds to get to Marseilles where they boarded a ship for New York. They had a tragic life in New York, but I’ll spare you the details. I just want to make my point that if you don’t respect another person’s right to have their own religious beliefs, then sooner or later, someone, some psychotic person somewhere, will get into a position of power where they will act out the ultimate implications of what you believe God has commanded you to do.
Finally, now, I’m not acusing anyone presently around of spitting at anybody. I’m not accusing anyone presently around of threatening to crucify anybody. Nor am I accusing them of shooting at my grandmother. What I am saying, though, is that whoever blindly follows any commandment will eventually wnd up taking a position that defies common sense. And further, may I say that the louder someone proclaims to have the only answer, a one-size-fits-all type of religion, then I feel forced to wonder if that person is really so secure in their belief.
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Answersplease
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Answersplease
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Answersplease
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