Why is it not considered racist when an African-American calls a Caucasian-American a "cracker"?

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Nimzovik said:
Bolding MIne:

Oh my… Oh my, oh* my. *

"It isn’t considered racist because most white folk aren’t going to take offense if you call them a cracker."

You just said that? :eek: I can not even begin to express just how insufferable this statement is.
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If someone called me a cracker I would laugh at them. It wouldn’t make me sad or make me want to cry or anything. I don’t have any feelings toward that word. On the other hand, blacks hurt when they are called the N-word.
 
In view of what was delineated in Posts 73 and 78, I would exhort you to a more careful consideration of this subject.
 
Nimzovik said:
I am having a difficult time understanding the above post.
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I’m just saying that there is a faux offense that people have. The criminal who’s robbing a house and the owner whacks him with a rack. A criminal takes offense at this act of violence against him and righteously sues the pants of him.

Faux offense.
 
I get the idea of Faux offense, just not as to exactly how it relates to the previously mentioned post.
 
Nimzovik said:
I get the idea of Faux offense, just not as to exactly how it relates to the previously mentioned post.
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You’d expressed horror that a race driven comment could be a less grave offense against one group than another. It’s the same situation where sexual harrassment is judged by different considerations when it comes from a man rather than a woman. Everyone is aware that sexual harrassment is wrong in any circumstance, but men are normally less offended by a woman saying something than a woman would be when a man says the same thing. It relates back to the power, dominance imbalance and the fact that rape and sexual assault are far more likely to be a man against a woman than the other way around. Every situation should be judged on its merits but here we have elevated the phenomenon to a general level.
 
Nimzovik said:
In view of what was delineated in Posts 73 and 78, I would exhort you to a more careful consideration of this subject.
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Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean that I have said anything wrong. I said, “If someone called ME a cracker.”

I’m about as white as they come skin color wise. I’m so white that I don’t even tan.😃
 
LongingSoul said:
But cracker has no historical meaning for a white person. Even on the thread here no one seems to know it’s origins.
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I was thinking the same thing. If someone called me “cracker”, I guess I would be annoyed (I guess?) just because I get the general impression that you are trying to put me down for my skin color. But it really has no significance to me as a word. I don’t associate it with being beaten or lynched or sprayed down with water hoses while attack dogs go after me or sitting at the back of the bus or going to the bad school or not being allowed to sit at the lunch counter, etc. I associate it with… nothing. Therefore, it has very little power. N*** on the other hand, IS associated with all those things and more.

No one should ever insult someone based on something like race, sex, etc. So the intent is not right, no matter what the word is. But beyond that. I don’t think these words are comparable.
 
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LongingSoul:
You’d expressed horror that a race driven comment could be a less grave offense against one group than another. It’s the same situation where sexual harrassment is judged by different considerations when it comes from a man rather than a woman. Everyone is aware that sexual harrassment is wrong in any circumstance, but men are normally less offended by a woman saying something than a woman would be when a man says the same thing. It relates back to the power, dominance imbalance and the fact that rape and sexual assault are far more likely to be a man against a woman than the other way around. Every situation should be judged on its merits but here we have elevated the phenomenon to a general level.
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Except that even this isn’t as true as you think. Rather it is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. Most randomly distributed surveys analyzed statistically sound indicate that women self-report committing acts of sexual aggression (and men correspondingly report being victims of sexual aggression by women) at almost the same rate as the other way around (usually it’s in the area of 60/40 male/female perpetrator ratio, some even closer to 50/50). And, male victims of rape by women have been shown to suffer similar psychological repercussions to those suffered by women.

In this case, I think the view that “men do it overwhelmingly more to women” is in fact more a mantra used to silence male victims and perpetuate the false belief that we live in a patriarchal society where “men have power.” We don’t. (if we do, then it’s a pretty weird kind of power; what kin of ruling class dies younger, has a lower standard of living, astronomically higher suicide rate, homicide rate, workplace death/injury rate, and unemployment and homeless rate, than the ‘oppressed class?’)

Analogously, while it may be true that black people are generally more sensitive to racism than white people for historical reasons or more effected by it for the obvious numerical reasons (there being more white people), people who excessively seek to diminish racism against white people by encouraging the idea that it simply does not compare to anti-black racism may end up enabling further anti-white racism because, if people think it’s no big deal, then they will be more willing to indulge in it.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
I was thinking the same thing. If someone called me “cracker”, I guess I would be annoyed (I guess?) just because I get the general impression that you are trying to put me down for my skin color. But it really has no significance to me as a word. I don’t associate it with being beaten or lynched or sprayed down with water hoses while attack dogs go after me or sitting at the back of the bus or going to the bad school or not being allowed to sit at the lunch counter, etc. I associate it with… nothing. Therefore, it has very little power. N*** on the other hand, IS associated with all those things and more.

No one should ever insult someone based on something like race, sex, etc. So the intent is not right, no matter what the word is. But beyond that. I don’t think these words are comparable.
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The experience of offense is quite subjective. If a white person had been the victim of a serious crime committed by a black person in his past, would he then be justified in taking exceptional offense at the word?

Also, I might add that the word cracker seems to imply some sort of reference to a presumption of racial superiority, which may be rather insulting. For example, if a poor Eastern European immigrant with a life of oppression behind him were called a cracker, he might feel quite insulted at the notion that he is ‘just a white guy,’ a member of some sort of oppressor class, when in fact, this would not remotely be the case.

Personally, I don’t find the notion of the peculiar historical oppression of black people to justifying different sensitivities to be problematic. What I do object to, however, is the notion of ‘white people’ as historical oppressors justifying the idea that white people should just ‘suck it up and take it’ more so than other races, precisely because it wasn’t ‘white people’ (as they exist in America today) who perpetuated the institution of slavery; it was primarily wealthy Anglo-Saxon (maybe a few Scots-Irish) Southern plantation owners. Most “white people” including myself are descended mostly or entirely from people who came here after slavery had been abolished, and most of our ancestors (again, including my own) were both peasants in their home countries, and spent most of the last century or so working in factories and mines, and many only in the past few decades found themselves entering the middle class. For these reasons, I would most certainly take offense at the notion that I am part of a ‘historical perpetrator class.’

Even all that of course is not taking into consideration the fact that the idea of collective or hereditary guilt is morally flawed, to say the least.
 
LongingSoul said:
But cracker has no historical meaning for a white person. Even on the thread here no one seems to know it’s origins. It can’t invoke any deeper significance if it has no roots inside the white person. The n word on the other hand means I’m invoking the dynamic of supremacy over you with this word.
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Some have said that the origins of the word “cracker” come from the sound a whip makes when the slave master cracks it. But whatever the origins, the word “cracker” is used as a way to show hatred of white people. Therefore, only a racist would use such a word. Do you believe that racism is only a white thing?
 
LongingSoul said:
But cracker has no historical meaning for a white person. Even on the thread here no one seems to know it’s origins. It can’t invoke any deeper significance if it has no roots inside the white person. The n word on the other hand means I’m invoking the dynamic of supremacy over you with this word.
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Are you saying that the only comments that can truly be considered racist or offensive are those with historical meaning?

Most people who use the n word do it out of ignorance, not out of any sense of “invoking the dynamic of supremacy”. And the same thing applies to all ignorant racist slurs, including the c word.
 
Raskolnikov said:
Apologies. A post of yours was right below it so I inadvertently copied and pasted your username instead of the other poster. Just fixed it.
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No biggie. I was just reading and was like, “Hey! That’s me,” then I was like, “What? I didn’t say that.” lol. 😃
 
livingwordunity said:
Some have said that the origins of the word “cracker” come from the sound a whip makes when the slave master cracks it. But whatever the origins, the word “cracker” is used as a way to show hatred of white people. Therefore, only a racist would use such a word. Do you believe that racism is only a white thing?
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No, of course not. Prejudice goes beyond race, or ethnicity, and is not limited to any one specific group.
 
Raskolnikov said:
Except that even this isn’t as true as you think. Rather it is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. Most randomly distributed surveys analyzed statistically sound indicate that women self-report committing acts of sexual aggression (and men correspondingly report being victims of sexual aggression by women) at almost the same rate as the other way around (usually it’s in the area of 60/40 male/female perpetrator ratio, some even closer to 50/50). And, male victims of rape by women have been shown to suffer similar psychological repercussions to those suffered by women.

In this case, I think the view that “men do it overwhelmingly more to women” is in fact more a mantra used to silence male victims and perpetuate the false belief that we live in a patriarchal society where “men have power.” We don’t. (if we do, then it’s a pretty weird kind of power; what kin of ruling class dies younger, has a lower standard of living, astronomically higher suicide rate, homicide rate, workplace death/injury rate, and unemployment and homeless rate, than the ‘oppressed class?’)
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If you do genuinely believe that there is no imbalance, inequality or bias in either gender or racial matters , then I can understand the position of the OP, but luckily our legal systems through chancery judge cases on principles of equity to address these types of imbalance. Would justice really be served if we did away with chancery?
Analogously, while it may be true that black people are generally more sensitive to racism than white people for historical reasons or more effected by it for the obvious numerical reasons (there being more white people), people who excessively seek to diminish racism against white people by encouraging the idea that it simply does not compare to anti-black racism may end up enabling further anti-white racism because, if people think it’s no big deal, then they will be more willing to indulge in it.
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I certainly don’t intend to diminish racism against anyone. The OP proposed that idea wrongfully in the topic title. I believe racism is racism but that we also can’t minimise the wider significance of certain words like the n word by insisting that it’s the same thing as saying ‘cracker’.
 
livingwordunity said:
Some have said that the origins of the word “cracker” come from the sound a whip makes when the slave master cracks it. But whatever the origins, the word “cracker” is used as a way to show hatred of white people. Therefore, only a racist would use such a word. Do you believe that racism is only a white thing?
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No ones in any doubt that it’s a race directed term. I’m not familiar with the court case your speaking about, but if they claim it isn’t racially used, I wouldn’t agree with that either. I’m saying it isn’t comparable in gravity to the n word or other dehumanising words coined by white supremacists around the world.
 
LongingSoul said:
No ones in any doubt that it’s a race directed term. I’m not familiar with the court case your speaking about, but if they claim it isn’t racially used, I wouldn’t agree with that either. I’m saying it isn’t comparable in gravity to the n word or other dehumanising words coined by white supremacists around the world.
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If the “n” word itself is so offensive that it trumps every other racist word why is it commonly used by blacks themselves to talk about each other? I think blacks should stop using the “n” word. But I think it has more to do with the amount of hate coming from the one using the word and not from the word itself. That’s why I don’t agree that one racist word is worse than another. Racism is racism.
 
livingwordunity said:
If the “n” word itself is so offensive that it trumps every other racist word why is it commonly used by blacks themselves to talk about each other? I think blacks should stop using the “n” word. I think it has more to do with the amount of hate coming from the one using the word and not from the word itself. That’s why I don’t agree that one racist word is worse than another. Racism is racism.
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It’s all about intent.
 
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