Why is it so hard to be traditional?

[maurin]

Hardly anyone that goes to Mass whatever form it is would agree that these sort of abuses are acceptable. If you find yourself in such a Catholic Church than I would suggest to you and anyone else to leave, brush the dirt from your feet and go somewhere else; its as simple as that.

and two years later I’ve not one regret!

 

[ElizabethPH]

and two years later I’ve not one regret!

Well I wouldn’t expect that you would!

 

[Momofmyangels]

I think it definetly works BOTH ways. I responded to my first post in the traditional forumn and I felt so attacked that I almost made the decision to never wander in here again. Now…how I am I supposed to learn the traditional point of view if I get attacked

I agree it works both ways and have stated that there are some who lack charity. I am sorry you were treated unkindly with your first post here. I agree it is a turn off. Perhaps we should all expect that everyones motives for information are pure and not always assume that they are full of malicious intent.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

actually kirk, whether you meant to or not you didn’t refer at all to the utter disrespect and malicious tones of many a liberal poster, even right here on this very thread. I don’t mean any disrespect to you, but you are, or should I say, you seem to be quite biased at times. But, hey, me tto, so you’re not in too bad a company.

I’ll trade you your dry 110 for my very wet 99.

But that’s what I mean: I haven’t seen any disrespect or malicioiusness in this thread at ALL, by any “LIBERAL” poster! Could you point it out?

 

[maurin]

But that’s what I mean: I haven’t seen any disrespect or malicioiusness in this thread at ALL, by any “LIBERAL” poster! Could you point it out?

Run to your window, and please do tell me what you see outside of it. I just need reassurance that we share a planet, Kirk.

Because if just looking at this current page’s list of threads of this Forum it isn’t obvious to, then my friend, on this particular subject with you I must shake the dust from (really cool, btw) sneakers.

But please remember that there are acids that do their work slowly over time. I believe it is called subtlety. And I know, as evidenced by your posts, you have the capacity to discern it. However, a lion does not need to have his fur dyed red in order to be seen at the top of a barren hill.

So what, is the trade of temp and humidity out?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Run to your window, and please do tell me what you see outside of it. I just need reassurance that we share a planet, Kirk.

Because if just looking at this current page’s list of threads of this Forum it isn’t obvious to, then my friend, on this particular subject with you I must shake the dust from (really cool, btw) sneakers.

But please remember that there are acids that do their work slowly over time. I believe it is called subtlety. And I know, as evidenced by your posts, you have the capacity to discern it. However, a lion does not need to have his fur dyed red in order to be seen at the top of a barren hill.

So what, is the trade of temp and humidity out?

Yes, it is, I’m orginally from Texas, and I remember 99 degrees and 99 percent.

No, I’m serious. I think I’m fairly 'thmart, fairly well-read, and I simply do not see any invective or denigration on the part of any from the other “side” (and I don’t see any posts by anyone that I would accuse of being a “liberal,” but I suppose that depends on one’s definition, ie, “a conservative is just a slow liberal”). I’ve gone back and looked at my own posts and I honestly do not get how they might offend, esp. as I’ve qualified what I’ve had to say by using the term “some” traditionalists. You and others have alluded to “liberals” denigrating the EF. First of all, I cannot recall any denigration of the EF, though I can recall lots of references to personal preferences for the OF, and second, I can’t recall a so-called “liberal” (if by that you mean the O’Briens, the Chichesters, the Gumbleton’s, and the Rhors) ever posting in the Traditional Forum! Please point it out.

 

[maurin]

I don’t live in Texas any more. That would have been close to your dry temps but with the humidity.

I do believe, though, kirk, that pothibly yer not ath thmart or ditherning ath you believe, if your eye hath not theen.

 

[floresco]

I’ve gone back and looked at my own posts and I honestly do not get how they might offend, esp. as I’ve qualified what I’ve had to say by using the term “some” traditionalists.

You write as if you expect the worst from Catholics who are attached to tradition. When someone was backing up a claim about Church teaching with a quote from Pope Benedict XV, you made a point to say it was XV rather than XVI and therefore not tainted. Since you were responding to a post replying to my question, there seemed to be an implication that it would have mattered to me which pope had made the statement. I found that offensive.

 

[PJM]

=Momofmyangels;6959455]I think this is a very common misconception. The Latin Mass can be quite easy to follow. Three of my older children (ages 10,9 and 8) are picking it up quickly just by attending the TLM and having a missal in their hands.

Nearly 50 years of liberal abuses and moderinity have sadly TRAINED many in a WRONG understanding of our Mass.

From the very Death and Ressurection Of Jesus; the Mass has been [had been] a Memorial By God, Of God and For God. It is a re-presenation of the Ultimate Love of God for His Created humanity, done in a manner described by Christ for giving THANKS, HONOR AND GLORY BACK to God [the Trinity].

It was NEVER about us until the Novus Ordo [we can attract the Protestants by becomming more like them] Now the priest is on stage, WE, NOT God are the focus of the Liturgy, and countless souls are being lossed. Fallen away catholics are now th Second largest “christian” group in America. No the NO Mass is not th only rreason; it’s just the foundational one!

May God Have Mercy on us!

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[StTommyMore]

Nearly 50 years of liberal abuses and moderinity have sadly TRAINED many in a WRONG understanding of our Mass.

From the very Death and Ressurection Of Jesus; the Mass has been [had been] a Memorial By God, Of God and For God. It is a re-presenation of the Ultimate Love of God for His Created humanity, done in a manner described by Christ for giving THANKS, HONOR AND GLORY BACK to God [the Trinity].

It was NEVER about us until the Novus Ordo [we can attract the Protestants by becomming more like them] Now the priest is on stage, WE, NOT God are the focus of the Liturgy, and countless souls are being lossed. Fallen away catholics are now th Second largest “christian” group in America. No the NO Mass is not th only rreason; it’s just the foundational one!

May God Have Mercy on us!

Love and prayers,
Pat

This is an unfair praody of the Novus Ordo. The Novus Ordo, celbrated correctly is just as God-centered as any Tridentine Mass. In the future, it would be best to be a bit more even-handed.

 

[Vico]

The ordinary and extrordinary form of the Mass are both the same unbloody sacrifice. And besides giving thanks, honor, glory to God, and satisfaction, we receive fruits.

Baltimore Catechism No. 3

Q. 917. What is the Mass?
A. The Mass is the unbloody sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ.

Q. 920. Is the Mass the same sacrifice as that of the Cross?
A. The Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross.

Q. 921. How is the Mass the same sacrifice as that of the Cross?
A. The Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross because the offering and the priest are the same – Christ our Blessed Lord; and the ends for which the sacrifice of the Mass is offered are the same as those of the sacrifice of the Cross.

Q. 931. Is there any difference between the sacrifice of the Cross and the sacrifice of the Mass?
A. Yes; the manner in which the sacrifice is offered is different. On the Cross Christ really shed His blood and was really slain; in the Mass there is no real shedding of blood nor real death, because Christ can die no more; but the sacrifice of the Mass, through the separate consecration of the bread and the wine, represents His death on the Cross.

Q. 922. What were the ends for which the sacrifice of the Cross was offered?

A. The ends for which the sacrifice of the Cross was offered were:

1. 
   *]To honor and glorify God;
   *]To thank Him for all the graces bestowed on the whole world;
   *]To satisfy God’s justice for the sins of men;
   *]To obtain all graces and blessings.
   
   Q. 923. How are the fruits of the Mass distributed?
   
   A. The fruits of the Mass are distributed thus:
   1. 
      *]The first benefit is bestowed on the priest who says the Mass;
      *]The second on the person for whom the Mass is said, or for the intention for which it is said;
      *]The third on those who are present at the Mass, and particularly on those who serve it, and
      *]The fourth on all the faithful who are in communion with the Church.
      
      Q. 924. Are all Masses of equal value in themselves or do they differ in worth?
      A. All Masses are equal in value in themselves and do not differ in worth, but only in the solemnity with which they are celebrated or in the end for which they are offered.

 

[ProVobis]

…A. All Masses are equal in value in themselves and do not differ in worth, but only in the solemnity with which they are celebrated or in the end for which they are offered.

So what would be the 2010 definition of “solemnity”?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Well I prefer Catholic. I attend the TLM. I was raised on the Baltimorre Catechism. Some want to label me a Traditionalist - but to me - Catholic today is the same as Catholic in 1961 when I first went to Catechism. When I see people advocating Women Priests or Homosexuality or Birth Control or anything that is a clear contradiction to the Teachings of the Faith and still want to call themselves “Catholic” then I have a problem with that. But the fact that they want to label me a “Traditionalist” because I wont go along with their perfidy- then thats their problem. My wife wears a veil and we recieve COTT at a communion rail. If that makes us “Traditionalists” in the eyes of others simply because we wont go along with the liberals - so be it.

Why is it that if you don’t wear a veil, recieve COTT then you are labeled a liberal? Seriously? It’s not a traditionalist or a liberal–that’s not the only two choices. To the OP–maybe some of the reason it because hard is this kind of thinking that is out there. Someone said they have never heard anyone rediculed for wanting to attend OF only. Well…you obviously haven’t been around these forumns much. It happens all the time. That we are somehow less reverent then the “traditionalists”. I don’t have a problem with someone being traditionalist…but there always seems to be an added zinger in some of their posts. Such as “I can’t help it that I want to be more reverent”.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

It was NEVER about us until the Novus Ordo [we can attract the Protestants by becomming more like them] Now the priest is on stage, WE, NOT God are the focus of the Liturgy, and countless souls are being lossed. Fallen away catholics are now th Second largest “christian” group in America. No the NO Mass is not th only rreason; it’s just the foundational one!

May God Have Mercy on us!

And here is Exhibit A of my point…

 

[ProVobis]

Why is it that if you don’t wear a veil, recieve COTT then you are labeled a liberal? Seriously? It’s not a traditionalist or a liberal–that’s not the only two choices. To the OP–maybe some of the reason it because hard is this kind of thinking that is out there.

Please don’t read this as an attack against any legitimate rite of the Church but someone can prefer the EF and still be of a progressive mindset.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Please don’t read this as an attack against any legitimate rite of the Church but someone can prefer the EF and still be of a progressive mindset.

My thought is can someone prefer the EF and not have something negative to say about the OF.

 

[maurin]

Nearly 50 years of liberal abuses and moderinity have sadly TRAINED many in a WRONG understanding of our Mass.

From the very Death and Ressurection Of Jesus; the Mass has been [had been] a Memorial By God, Of God and For God. It is a re-presenation of the Ultimate Love of God for His Created humanity, done in a manner described by Christ for giving THANKS, HONOR AND GLORY BACK to God [the Trinity].

It was NEVER about us until the Novus Ordo [we can attract the Protestants by becomming more like them] Now the priest is on stage, WE, NOT God are the focus of the Liturgy, and countless souls are being lossed. Fallen away catholics are now th Second largest “christian” group in America. No the NO Mass is not th only rreason; it’s just the foundational one!

May God Have Mercy on us!

Love and prayers,
Pat

Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison, Kyrie eleison.

 

[ProVobis]

My thought is can someone prefer the EF and not have something negative to say about the OF.

But many see even just saying that you prefer the EF as making a negative statement against the OF and against all the Popes who have said it.

 

[Vico]

So what would be the 2010 definition of “solemnity”?

One measure of degree of solemnity is as used with the 1962 Mass:

Solemn Mass with Priest, deacon, and subdeacon, sung, with incense
Sung Mass no deacon or subdeacon, sung
Low Mass no deacon or subdeacon

With the Novus Ordo, chanting may be used in varying amounts, various processions, etc, determined by the priest. And also there are different readings from the office based on: feast, solemnity, memorial, optional memorial, and free day (feria).

nccbuscc.org/liturgy/current/2010cal.pdf

For example, next week on Tuesday August 24, is the **feast **of Saint Bartholomew, apostle. Red vestments are worn, proper readings are used, and, if you assist at Mass at the Latin parish near me, the pastor there sings the appropriate parts of the Novus Ordo Mass in Gregorian chant (English).

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

But many see even just saying that you prefer the EF as making a negative statement against the OF and against all the Popes who have said it.

Maybe…I just haven’t seen many people who can say they prefer the EF without putting the OF down.