Why is it so hard to debate gay marriage?

[Catholig]

The Church has let the cat out of the bag since it mentions homosexuality in the Catechism. IMO it should have left in the phrase they do not choose their condition. Maybe if this had been taught to me I could have come to someone before attempting suicide twenty one years ago. But it is a messed up society where we have to be so scared of a topic that some feel driven to this conclusion.

Oh okay - the church is wrong for saying that homosexual actions are immoral. The church should just pretend that they aren’t. With this mentality let’s just do away with confession - and any sense of wrong doing. Let’s run contrary to 2,000 years of stability, and god’s commandments and “include” homosexuals in the sacrament of holy matrimony. Let’s ignore that they will never give the Church a child, and that every sexual act they commit is against the natural law. That it is purely for pleasure and not open to procreation.

Maybe we should even edit the bible and the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas.

Catholig

 

[Abira]

Oh okay - the church is wrong for saying that homosexual actions are immoral. The church should just pretend that they aren’t. With this mentality let’s just do away with confession - and any sense of wrong doing. Let’s run contrary to 2,000 years of stability, and god’s commandments and “include” homosexuals in the sacrament of holy matrimony. Let’s ignore that they will never give the Church a child, and that every sexual act they commit is against the natural law. That it is purely for pleasure and not open to procreation.

Maybe we should even edit the bible and the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas.

Catholig

goofyjim is addressing the idea of whether homosexuals choose their orientation, he confided in you the fact that he struggled to accept himself as he was told he had chosen this path rather than just beng asked to bear it…I can tell you for a fact that they don’t choose ssa… think it through… could you, by using your own will alone turn against your predisposed nature to have ssa?? equally, I would never have chosen this cross, it’s a lonely path with little compassion and understanding as you have shown to goofyjim after he confided his emotional past to you… very sensitively handled!!! well done.

none of your ramblings above reply to his statement… it ius simply an excuse to restate what we already know and you have stated several times… the post didn’t even mention these things.

S

 

[Catholig]

goofyjim is addressing the idea of whether homosexuals choose their orientation, he confided in you the fact that he struggled to accept himself as he was told he had chosen this path rather than just beng asked to bear it…I can tell you for a fact that they don’t choose ssa… think it through… could you, by using your own will alone turn against your predisposed nature to have ssa?? equally, I would never have chosen this cross, it’s a lonely path with little compassion and understanding as you have shown to goofyjim after he confided his emotional past to you… very sensitively handled!!! well done.

none of your ramblings above reply to his statement… it ius simply an excuse to restate what we already know and you have stated several times… the post didn’t even mention these things.

S

I was referring to how he said that the CCC should have stopped at “they don’t choose their condition” (this isn’t an exact quote). I’m not trying to be insensitive - but I certainly don’t believe that the Church was wrong to state plainly that to engage in homosexual acts is a mortal sin. I think that if she were to do so she wouldn’t be guiding the sheep. She’d be letting them feed at poisoned pastures and not even attempt to save them. This is contrary to her mission.

Again - I agree that we should be compassionate. I just don’t think that the Church is wrong, or that she should hid the fact that homosexual sex is wrong.

Catholig

 

[goofyjim]

I was referring to how he said that the CCC should have stopped at “they don’t choose their condition” (this isn’t an exact quote). I’m not trying to be insensitive - but I certainly don’t believe that the Church was wrong to state plainly that to engage in homosexual acts is a mortal sin. I think that if she were to do so she wouldn’t be guiding the sheep. She’d be letting them feed at poisoned pastures and not even attempt to save them. This is contrary to her mission.

Again - I agree that we should be compassionate. I just don’t think that the Church is wrong, or that she should hid the fact that homosexual sex is wrong.

Catholig

My complaint is not with the rest of the entry. It is that between the first and second edition they dropped the particular phrase. Why? Did God suddenly change his mind and say they do choose their condition? Or is the Church afraid to admit that for the majority of us who bear this cross it is not chosen and therefore attempts to change it will most likely fail?

 

[Catholig]

My complaint is not with the rest of the entry. It is that between the first and second edition they dropped the particular phrase. Why? Did God suddenly change his mind and say they do choose their condition? Or is the Church afraid to admit that for the majority of us who bear this cross it is not chosen and therefore attempts to change it will most likely fail?

Oh - I thought someone pointed out that that was added in the first US edition, but wasn’t actually part of it (i.e. the official CCC in Latin). If that’s true then God didn’t change his mind - someone just decided to add something that was never there.

Catholig

 

[goofyjim]

Oh - I thought someone pointed out that that was added in the first US edition, but wasn’t actually part of it (i.e. the official CCC in Latin). If that’s true then God didn’t change his mind - someone just decided to add something that was never there.

Catholig

So apparently the Church thinks we deliberately choose this condition. Hogwash.

 

[Abira]

I was referring to how he said that the CCC should have stopped at “they don’t choose their condition” (this isn’t an exact quote). I’m not trying to be insensitive - but I certainly don’t believe that the Church was wrong to state plainly that to engage in homosexual acts is a mortal sin. I think that if she were to do so she wouldn’t be guiding the sheep. She’d be letting them feed at poisoned pastures and not even attempt to save them. This is contrary to her mission.

Again - I agree that we should be compassionate. I just don’t think that the Church is wrong, or that she should hid the fact that homosexual sex is wrong.

Catholig

ok, you confused me catholig as i don’t think anyone’s disagreed with the point that the church correctly teaches that homosexual ACTS are wrong

take care, S

 

[Abira]

So apparently the Church thinks we deliberately choose this condition. Hogwash.

exacltly, that’s what i was trying to get across before.

I’m 24 and having to think about living the rest of my life by myself, it’s not a nice prospect i see before me, stretching for sixty years or so…

 

[goofyjim]

exacltly, that’s what i was trying to get across before.

I’m 24 and having to think about living the rest of my life by myself, it’s not a nice prospect i see before me, stretching for sixty years or so…

I simply follow the summation of the commandments. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. If I accept myself as I am instead of trying to change to conform to society I will be better equipped to fulfill the second half of that statement.

 

[Catholig]

So apparently the Church thinks we deliberately choose this condition. Hogwash.

No, the bit about homosexuals not choosing their condition simply was NEVER part of the CCC. It doesn’t mean that the Church is saying one way or the other that ever homosexual person is choosing to be so. It simply means that someone overstepped his boundaries, added words to the Catechism, and that controversy ensued when it was corrected to be brought in line with the official Latin text.

Catholig

 

[Catholig]

I simply follow the summation of the commandments. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. If I accept myself as I am instead of trying to change to conform to society I will be better equipped to fulfill the second half of that statement.

Hopefully by accepting yourself as you are you mean living a chaste life and bearing your cross with dignity.

Catholig

 

[Catholig]

ok, you confused me catholig as i don’t think anyone’s disagreed with the point that the church correctly teaches that homosexual ACTS are wrong

take care, S

I made a mistake, because while Goofyjim wrote “IMO it should have left in the phrase they do not choose their condition.” I thought he said something long the lines of “left off after” or “stopped after they do not choose their condition”. In short I was wrong.

And to Goofyjim - I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. And I didn’t mean to offend you or appear insensitive.

Catholig

 

[goofyjim]

Hopefully by accepting yourself as you are you mean living a chaste life and bearing your cross with dignity.

Catholig

The world will never know.

 

[Catholig]

The world will never know.

Well - it’d be awfully sad if you decide to reject the Church’s position and engage in sinful activities, which would make you ill-disposed to receive holy communion (i.e. you’d be committing sacrelige if you received) and bar you from heaven - but you’re right I will never know.

Catholig

 

[goofyjim]

Well - it’d be awfully sad if you decide to reject the Church’s position and engage in sinful activities, which would make you ill-disposed to receive holy communion (i.e. you’d be committing sacrelige if you received) and bar you from heaven - but you’re right I will never know.

Catholig

What about the 80% who admit to using ABC and still go to holy communion? If we start eliminating all these people the lines for communion would get so short there would be no shortage of priests. And then there are the annulments, which I view as just Church sanctioned divorce. We could go on and on.

 

[Abira]

The world will never know.

Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
4. That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

 

[Julian_Peters]

Thank you to all who have participated. This thread is now closed.