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Young_Thinker
Guest
Is it usually because the bishop of that diocese doesn’t feel that they are needed? I wouldn’t think that it’s for financial reasons since deacons tend to either have day jobs or be retirees.
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Phemie
Guest
There may be a variety of reasons, not the least of which may be the lack of educational opportunity nearby. If I look at where there are deacons the 4 Canadian Atlantic provinces, the majority reside in the province, and even the city where there is a school of theology.
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Solomonson
Guest
I can only speak for my diocese, and for the most part only my deanery, but here locally I think it’s a cost vs. benefit sort of thing.
What can a deacon do that a layperson cannot? They can impart a blessing in the Name of the Holy Trinity. They can conduct matrimonial liturgies. They can proclaim the Gospel during Mass. That’s pretty much it.
You wouldn’t want your kids to be catechized by the deacons in my parish. Both are also approved to provide the pre-Cana wedding training, but neither is requested by future married couples.
Both are difficult personalities (ironically, one was a real sweetheart before going through the diaconate formation) and their wives are even more difficult. All four have had a terrible impact on my parish – and will for many years to come. But because of their ordinations they cannot be quietly benched, They, along with their wives are destined to do damage in my parish for years to come. I think some pastors and bishops are sensitive to this sort of potential situation.
The priestly vocation and the diaconate are tremendously different vocations – it doesn’t seem logical that a man would be called to both. YET, if the Western Church ever allowed married priests, you can bet there would be a ton of permanent deacons at the head of the line to become priests which would cause some real suffering in the Church.
If the Church truly had a foolproof way to select the right candidates for the diaconate, the cost/benefit matter would be moot. But it does not.
What can a deacon do that a layperson cannot? They can impart a blessing in the Name of the Holy Trinity. They can conduct matrimonial liturgies. They can proclaim the Gospel during Mass. That’s pretty much it.
You wouldn’t want your kids to be catechized by the deacons in my parish. Both are also approved to provide the pre-Cana wedding training, but neither is requested by future married couples.
Both are difficult personalities (ironically, one was a real sweetheart before going through the diaconate formation) and their wives are even more difficult. All four have had a terrible impact on my parish – and will for many years to come. But because of their ordinations they cannot be quietly benched, They, along with their wives are destined to do damage in my parish for years to come. I think some pastors and bishops are sensitive to this sort of potential situation.
The priestly vocation and the diaconate are tremendously different vocations – it doesn’t seem logical that a man would be called to both. YET, if the Western Church ever allowed married priests, you can bet there would be a ton of permanent deacons at the head of the line to become priests which would cause some real suffering in the Church.
If the Church truly had a foolproof way to select the right candidates for the diaconate, the cost/benefit matter would be moot. But it does not.
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PaulfromIowa
Guest
All diocese’ have deacons because every priest is a deacon. I assume that you are speaking of the permanent diaconate. While the Latin rite permanent diaconate was revived in the 1960’s, it is not mandatory that every diocese have this program.
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pianistclare
Guest
HA! Come to my Archdiocese. Our tiny parish has 5 of them!
They pay for their own training, and their profs are highly educated (PhD) laypersons and other priests. Their wives even attend their own set of classes.
It’s thriving here. One of the Deacons leads our RCIA program, and one gave a wonderful homily yesterday on Divine Mercy. Another guides the finance dept. and another is the go-to person for assisting people with funeral planning and grief counseling. The eldest and his wife do Rachel’s VIneyard, the ministry to those who have lost a child to miscarriage or any other death of a child, and they also help me teach First Communion Prep and Confirmation prep. They do a lot.
Having said that, some parishes have none. Those pastors make a decision that they don’t really need or want someone else with them. Deacons are not forced on a parish.
They pay for their own training, and their profs are highly educated (PhD) laypersons and other priests. Their wives even attend their own set of classes.
It’s thriving here. One of the Deacons leads our RCIA program, and one gave a wonderful homily yesterday on Divine Mercy. Another guides the finance dept. and another is the go-to person for assisting people with funeral planning and grief counseling. The eldest and his wife do Rachel’s VIneyard, the ministry to those who have lost a child to miscarriage or any other death of a child, and they also help me teach First Communion Prep and Confirmation prep. They do a lot.
Having said that, some parishes have none. Those pastors make a decision that they don’t really need or want someone else with them. Deacons are not forced on a parish.
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Solomonson
Guest
They can also preach at Mass. I forgot about that – or maybe I intentionally blocked it out of my mind.
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pianistclare
Guest
Why?
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tee_eff_em
Guest
One case I am aware of a diocese that did not make use of permanent deacons for many years because (I was told) there were no standards for their education and training.
Whether there is now an established curriculum for such or whether that diocese has recognized a need for deacons I cannot say?
tee
Whether there is now an established curriculum for such or whether that diocese has recognized a need for deacons I cannot say?
tee
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DeniseNY
Guest
Maybe it just comes across this way, but you seem to have a lot of problems with people in your parish.
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Tarpeian_Rock
Guest
There is also the matter of conducting formal Baptisms. As to the original question, in addition to the other factors already mentioned, I would think that in some places, clericalism would be another reason for the failure to implement or broadly support the permanent diaconate.
In my diocese (Lincoln) we have never had a permanent diaconate program. Bishop Flavin (1967-1992) and Bishop Bruskewitz (1992-2012) thought it might detract from the promotion of priestly vocations. Bishop Conley is on record as saying he won’t rule out a diaconate program sometime in the future, but for now, he has enough priests to meet the pastoral needs of the diocese.
There are a few deacons (three, I believe) who were ordained elsewhere and moved to the Diocese of Lincoln; they have been assigned various ministries (prisons, etc.).
There are a few deacons (three, I believe) who were ordained elsewhere and moved to the Diocese of Lincoln; they have been assigned various ministries (prisons, etc.).
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jediliz
Guest
Yes…I think my parish had soneone move here from Omaha. He may have switched over to ministerial duties as an acolyte (not sure if he’s still at my parish, though). We do have deacons as in transitional deacons…and a few of these get assigned to parishes the summer before their last year of the seminary and they occassionally preach the homily. My own parish had a deacon from Vietnam at least ten years ago, for a few months until he was ordained a priest for our diocese, and then assigned to a pairsh in Hastings, He’s now at the 2nd parish (saint benedict’s) in Nebraska City as an assistant pastor.
Since Lincoln thrives with Priestly vocations, we have no need (at the moment) for permanent deacons.
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twf
Guest
Its up to the bishop. Bishops could have various reasons for this. In the US you’re very used to deacons because the American bishops, by and large, really took the restoration of the permanent diaconate to heart following Vatican II. Other dioceses around the world were much slower to implement the permanent diaconate, for various reasons…or in many cases, never did. Here in the Archdiocese of Vancouver, we only implemented a formation program for permanent deacons within the last several years…so we are only now getting used to the idea of having deacons in our parishes. (And at present, most parishes still don’t have one). In a neighbouring diocese (that has since, quite recently, implemented a formation program), I once asked a priest why there were no permanent deacons. This was perhaps a decade or so ago. He said that the bishop wanted to focus all efforts on priestly vocations…
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pianistclare
Guest
YMMV, but here…the Permanent Diaconate has not led to a decrease in vocations.
We have anywhere from 50-70 men in formation in any given year.
Mostly because they are two distinct groups Young vs.Older, mostly retired men.
Those with small children or teens are asked to wait until their children and families are more settled, with less need for them at home, since it’s a taxing job that takes them away from their families often. That’s another reason why the wives are in classes as well…for tools, support, and learning about the new roles of their husbands.
The screening process is pretty rigorous, and the pastors are included in the process, kept in the loop as to their progress.
We have anywhere from 50-70 men in formation in any given year.
Mostly because they are two distinct groups Young vs.Older, mostly retired men.
Those with small children or teens are asked to wait until their children and families are more settled, with less need for them at home, since it’s a taxing job that takes them away from their families often. That’s another reason why the wives are in classes as well…for tools, support, and learning about the new roles of their husbands.
The screening process is pretty rigorous, and the pastors are included in the process, kept in the loop as to their progress.
M
Mary_Ellen
Guest
Deacons can also preside over funeral Liturgies of the Word, quite a welcome service in aging populations such as ours and as more families opt out of funeral Masses.
The parish where I grew up (Archdiocese of Omaha) has a few deacons. One of them presided over the vigil (Rosary) for my dad the night before his funeral. The deacon was a longtime family friend and having him conduct the vigil was a tremendous blessing to our family.
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phil19034
Guest
I think it’s a number of factors (not listed in any order):
- unknown long terms effects the Permanent Diaconate could have on Priestly ordinations and celibacy (Bishops with historically good numbers of priests and seminarians might be a little hesitant to jinx it by allowing Permanent Deacons)
- perceived clericalism
- little interest among laity, esp in historically Catholic nations and poor nations.
- financial - how training is paid for (paid by diocese or by deacon)? And does diocese own their own seminary or do they have to pay a seminary or Catholic college for the training?
- Training program (related to #4) - does National Conference or Diocese have an established training program?
- Need - if diocese has healthy numbers of priests per parish, the need for Permanent Deacons diminishes
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commenter
Guest
At least one bishop in the Midwest put a hold on any new candidates for the diaconate in the 1980s because he was outraged that the Church was not accepting women as ordained deacons. I believe that his successor has reopened the diaconate program for men.
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tawny
Guest
My Parish has 4 Deacons, they pay for their own education at St. Joseph’s Seminary. That is the Seminary that educates the Archdiocesan Priests. One Deacon is the RCIA Director, one is in charge of training the Altar Servers, one is the Spiritual Director for the Teen Club & the other one is in charge of the Adult Faith Formation Courses for the Parish. They are all very involved in the Parish operations.
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pianistclare
Guest
What goes on in our ara:
could be, yes
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