Why is it that some diocese don't have deacons?

[phil19034]

What goes on in our ara:

could be, yes

I found it interesting that the Archdiocese of Krakow (St. John Paul II’s diocese) doesn’t have any Permanent Deacons.
catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dkrak.html
But their Catholics per Priest number has been going down since the 1950s.
97.6% of the population is Catholic there, and they have 2127 priests (729 Catholics per Priest)

As of 2015, the Archdiocese of Atlanta for example has more Permanent Deacons than priests.
catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/datla.html
14% of the population is Catholic in Atlanta, and they have 218 priests (4619 Catholics per Priest). In Atlanta, the Catholics per Priest number keeps climbing

In Philadelphia, as of 2013 the population is 36.6% Catholics and we have 273 Permanent Deacons with 930 priests with climbing Catholics per Priest number of 1601 Catholics per Priest.

In Lincoln, NE, as of 2013, they have a 16.4% Catholic population with 2 Permanent Deacons and 151 priests, with a steady 646 Catholics per Priest.

So I do think need plays a role.

But then, you have places like Buenos Aires that has a Catholic population, as of 2012, of 91.6%, with 791 priests and 11 Permanent Deacons, with 3376 Catholics per Priest. catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dbuea.html It’s also interesting to note that while Pope Francis was the Archbishop there, he increased the number of deacons from 2 to 11.

Plus, in Africa, I still haven’t found a diocese that has any Permanent Deacons.

Point is, each Diocese, region, country & continent have different reasons why they have or haven’t embraced the Permanent Diaconate.

God Bless

 

[twf]

At least one bishop in the Midwest put a hold on any new candidates for the diaconate in the 1980s because he was outraged that the Church was not accepting women as ordained deacons. I believe that his successor has reopened the diaconate program for men.

A bishop in Ireland recently made a similar statement. He said he preferred to empower laity including women.

 

[phil19034]

I found it interesting that the Archdiocese of Krakow (St. John Paul II’s diocese) doesn’t have any Permanent Deacons.
catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dkrak.html
But their Catholics per Priest number has been going down since the 1950s.
97.6% of the population is Catholic there, and they have 2127 priests (729 Catholics per Priest)

As of 2015, the Archdiocese of Atlanta for example has more Permanent Deacons than priests.
catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/datla.html
14% of the population is Catholic in Atlanta, and they have 218 priests (4619 Catholics per Priest). In Atlanta, the Catholics per Priest number keeps climbing

In Philadelphia, as of 2013 the population is 36.6% Catholics and we have 273 Permanent Deacons with 930 priests with climbing Catholics per Priest number of 1601 Catholics per Priest.

In Lincoln, NE, as of 2013, they have a 16.4% Catholic population with 2 Permanent Deacons and 151 priests, with a steady 646 Catholics per Priest.

So I do think need plays a role.

But then, you have places like Buenos Aires that has a Catholic population, as of 2012, of 91.6%, with 791 priests and 11 Permanent Deacons, with 3376 Catholics per Priest. catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dbuea.html It’s also interesting to note that while Pope Francis was the Archbishop there, he increased the number of deacons from 2 to 11.

Plus, in Africa, I still haven’t found a diocese that has any Permanent Deacons.

Point is, each Diocese, region, country & continent have different reasons why they have or haven’t embraced the Permanent Diaconate.

God Bless

NOTE: I meant “in central Africa,” not in countries like Egypt or South Africa

 

[phil19034]

A bishop in Ireland recently made a similar statement. He said he preferred to empower laity including women.

Yeah, I’ve heard that’s why in the United States only 1 to 3 dioceses allow lay men to be installed as Installed Acolytes and/or Installed Lectors (besides seminarians studying for the Diaconate and/or Priesthood)

I’ve heard the fear is if there are too many Installed Lectors or Installed Acolytes then less women could read or serve the altar.

 

[Solomonson]

There is also the matter of conducting formal Baptisms. As to the original question, in addition to the other factors already mentioned, I would think that in some places, clericalism would be another reason for the failure to implement or broadly support the permanent diaconate.

I would agree with your comment. I read a biography about a cardinal who commented about the permanent diaconate. He simply didn’t see a need, which surprised me given his views on other matters.

I agree with your comments about clericalism – whether the concern is real or not.

One thing I would really like to understand better is the priest vs. permanent deacon comparison. The two are distinct, very different vocations. If one realizes too late that they were likely called to the priesthood (after being married, having kids, etc.), becoming a deacon is not like becoming a “mini priest.” It’s a very different vocation. If they were actually called to the priesthood there’s a fairly good chance they were not called to be permanent deacons.

Yet if the Western Church ever began to more fully accept a married priesthood, it would be the permanent deacons that would be maneuvering to be ordained as priests. That concerns me. I also have no doubt that it’s a big part of the calculus when the Holy See ponders more firmly embracing a married priesthood in the West.

 

[Solomonson]

Yeah, I’ve heard that’s why in the United States only 1 to 3 dioceses allow lay men to be installed as Installed Acolytes and/or Installed Lectors (besides seminarians studying for the Diaconate and/or Priesthood)

I’ve heard the fear is if there are too many Installed Lectors or Installed Acolytes then less women could read or serve the altar.

I think a very valid reason for not permanently instituting lectors and acolytes is that the ministry could become abused like that of porter in years past. In some cases men would seek to become instituted for reasons other than to assist with the Mass. In some cases it would be prestigious to become instituted. It would encourage those to remain in the ministry long after they should have contemplated retirement, etc.

 

[Solomonson]

In my diocese (Lincoln) we have never had a permanent diaconate program. Bishop Flavin (1967-1992) and Bishop Bruskewitz (1992-2012) thought it might detract from the promotion of priestly vocations. Bishop Conley is on record as saying he won’t rule out a diaconate program sometime in the future, but for now, he has enough priests to meet the pastoral needs of the diocese.

There are a few deacons (three, I believe) who were ordained elsewhere and moved to the Diocese of Lincoln; they have been assigned various ministries (prisons, etc.).

That is quite intriguing to consider. Very interesting.

 

[Solomonson]

From the standpoint of celebrating the Mass, deacons aren’t required and they really don’t do a heck of a lot, other than read the Gospel and on occasion, preach.

In the East (depending on tradition), the deacon largely “runs” the liturgy while the priest is more focused on prayer. The deacon is really the interface between the priest and the faithful. He plays a very central part. Attending a Divine Liturgy sans deacon is quite a different experience.

 

[Glennon_P]

I think a very valid reason for not permanently instituting lectors and acolytes is that the ministry could become abused like that of porter in years past. In some cases men would seek to become instituted for reasons other than to assist with the Mass. In some cases it would be prestigious to become instituted. It would encourage those to remain in the ministry long after they should have contemplated retirement, etc.

We’ve had instituted lectors and acolytes in this diocese since the late 1970s/early 1980s (full disclosure: I have been instituted in both ministries). To be honest, I don’t see a lot of men becoming lectors and acolytes just for the prestige. In most cases, the pastor recruits the men to go to the training sessions, not the other way around.

As far as retirement…I’m not sure what happens in other parishes, but in the 30+ years I’ve served in those ministries, I haven’t seen many examples of men holding on too long. We serve at the pleasure of the pastor, so if the pastor decides that we should no longer be scheduled, we are not scheduled. As mentioned, I’m both a lector an an acolyte. My current pastor has asked me to serve as a lector but not as an acolyte, so I serve as a lector but not as an acolyte. It’s his call.

 

[Phemie]

At least one bishop in the Midwest put a hold on any new candidates for the diaconate in the 1980s because he was outraged that the Church was not accepting women as ordained deacons. I believe that his successor has reopened the diaconate program for men.

One archbishop around here was known to say that he wouldn’t consider having deacons ordained until the laicized priests in his diocese could return to active ministry - he had 4 or 5 sitting in his congregation at the time, all men who had requested laicization to get married.

The priest who told us that is now laicized himself and serving as Catechetical Coordinator at the Archdiocese.

 

[phil19034]

One archbishop around here was known to say that he wouldn’t consider having deacons ordained until the laicized priests in his diocese could return to active ministry - he had 4 or 5 sitting in his congregation at the time, all men who had requested laicization to get married.

The priest who told us that is now laicized himself and serving as Catechetical Coordinator at the Archdiocese.

Wow… :nope:

 

[Solomonson]

We’ve had instituted lectors and acolytes in this diocese since the late 1970s/early 1980s (full disclosure: I have been instituted in both ministries). To be honest, I don’t see a lot of men becoming lectors and acolytes just for the prestige. In most cases,** the pastor recruits the men to go to the training sessions**, not the other way around.

As far as retirement…I’m not sure what happens in other parishes, but in the 30+ years I’ve served in those ministries, I haven’t seen many examples of men holding on too long. We serve at the pleasure of the pastor, so if the pastor decides that we should no longer be scheduled, we are not scheduled. As mentioned, I’m both a lector an an acolyte. My current pastor has asked me to serve as a lector but not as an acolyte, so I serve as a lector but not as an acolyte. It’s his call.

What works well in Lincoln, isn’t necessarily going to work well elsewhere in the US. The fact that pastors recruit men rather than relying on a cattle call in the bulletin is a very good thing.

I was going to ask how women respond to this but again, you’re in Lincoln and that would be quite different from most other parts of the US.

I do have one question. What does your training consist of? What is its duration?

 

[pianistclare]

What works well in Lincoln, isn’t necessarily going to work well elsewhere in the US. The fact that pastors recruit men rather than relying on a cattle call in the bulletin is a very good thing.

I was going to ask how women respond to this but again, you’re in Lincoln and that would be quite different from most other parts of the US.

I do have one question. What does your training consist of? What is its duration?

Why didn’t you answer my question?

Deacons train for 5 years, btw.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

From the standpoint of celebrating the Mass, deacons aren’t required and they really don’t do a heck of a lot, other than read the Gospel and on occasion, preach.

In the East (depending on tradition), the deacon largely “runs” the liturgy while the priest is more focused on prayer. The deacon is really the interface between the priest and the faithful. He plays a very central part. Attending a Divine Liturgy sans deacon is quite a different experience.

The ministry of the deacon isn’t primarily liturgical. It is service, usually behind the scenes. In a lot of ways the most effective deacons are those least visible to the Sunday congregation.

 

[pianistclare]

The ministry of the deacon isn’t primarily liturgical. It is service, usually behind the scenes. In a lot of ways the most effective deacons are those least visible to the Sunday congregation.

So true, it is in my parish, as described in my post.

 

[starlady88]

My dad is a deacon in the Archdiocese of Omaha. He had to formally inquire, apply, have psychological testing, my mom had to consent (both at the beginning and then again at the end before ordination) and go through 4 years of formation. It was really awesome to see my parents grow spiritually together throughout that formation process (started when I was in high school, ended when I was in college), which in turn had an effect on us as a family.

My family is in a rural area where a priest is shared between the parishes of two towns. My dad assists at Mass almost every weekend and I think he actually can be quite a help to the parish priest, who can’t always be in both towns to do baptisms, visit shut-ins, etc.

 

[Glennon_P]

What works well in Lincoln, isn’t necessarily going to work well elsewhere in the US. The fact that pastors recruit men rather than relying on a cattle call in the bulletin is a very good thing.

I was going to ask how women respond to this but again, you’re in Lincoln and that would be quite different from most other parts of the US.

I do have one question. What does your training consist of? What is its duration?

I did my training in 1983 and 1985, so my memories aren’t precise…nor do I know what the training program is like today. But if memory serves me correctly, we had 6-8 Sunday afternoon sessions led by different priests. Each session lasted about 3 hours; we had a spiritual talk, followed by talks that included the Vatican II document describing the ministries of lector and acolyte, “how-to” aspects of our particular ministries, etc. The final session was a mini-retreat with talks, Eucharistic Adoration and Confessions.

 

[Solomonson]

The ministry of the deacon isn’t primarily liturgical. It is service, usually behind the scenes. In a lot of ways the most effective deacons are those least visible to the Sunday congregation.

That would depend on which tradition within the Church. I’m not sure that is has been proven that “the most effective deacons are those least visible to the Sunday congregation”, but I have made it clear that the ministry of the deacon and the priest are quite different.

 

[Solomonson]

I did my training in 1983 and 1985, so my memories aren’t precise…nor do I know what the training program is like today. But if memory serves me correctly, we had 6-8 Sunday afternoon sessions led by different priests. Each session lasted about 3 hours; we had a spiritual talk, followed by talks that included the Vatican II document describing the ministries of lector and acolyte, “how-to” aspects of our particular ministries, etc. The final session was a mini-retreat with talks, Eucharistic Adoration and Confessions.

Thank you. I really appreciate knowing. I think the fact that you were chosen is extremely important. I think in many places if a notice appeared in the bulletin announcing that candidates for permanent institution to lector and acolyte were sought, three things would happen:

1.) Many of the best suited men would not be heard from.

2.) Quite a few very poorly suited men would be at the front of the line.

3.) People would get upset that it would lessen the need for temporarily commissioned EMsHC.

 

[commenter]

It is interesting that one poster commented on the deacon’s role in the Eastern liturgy; I noticed it this past weekend, when I happened to be at an Eastern Catholic liturgy for the first time in many years.

The diaconate has a definite ministry of its own, different from the priest, spelled out even in Acts. Some men called to be priests could not do this particular calling, primarily social in nature. I have worked alongside deacons in ministries where I volunteer.

It is troubling in my diocese that they are assigning deacons to be “temporary” administrators in small parishes, in lieu of a priest, due to the priest shortage. The problem is not that they are not competent, but that this means pulling a deacon away from the ministry of charity he would normally be working in. The diocese should address the priest shortage, or rather the pastor shortage, by merging parishes where there is another parish nearby, rather than reinforcing the misperception of the deacon as sub for a priest.

The deacon’s role in social ministry is not just to “serve food to the widows” but also to minister to those who serve food, or work in health care, etc, who often get burned out. The deacon adds a spiritual dimension, a support for paid or volunteer helpers who need someone who knows what the daily grind is like.

Lets all say a prayer in gratitude for the deacons we have, and for vocations to the diaconate.