L
Leeann
Guest
Amen to that Teneas…
- Status
S
Saintlucy
Guest
Modern theologians, no matter how clever they think they are, are not the Magesterium of the Church.
B
benedictus2
Guest
Excellently put!! :clapping:
:tiphat:
B
benedictus2
Guest
Not at all. There are certain things where people can agree to disagree. I somehow don’t think we can take that stand with regards doctrin because you are a priest and are supposed to uphold the teachings of the Church… The view you expressed was actually contrary to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.
Also, citing that reference to Jesus was a poor choice of analogies. It seems to make out the you are being persecuted by those in the forum for proclaiming the truth which is not the case.
I think you have explained a few things very well but the last bit about the brothers and sisters was done rather poorly.
B
benedictus2
Guest
But from what you wrote, unless i misunderstood you completely, you are referring to them as half-brothers because they did not have the same Father but not because they were believed to be Joseph’s sons from a previous marriage.
S
Saintlucy
Guest
That’s how I read it too.
L
Leeann
Guest
So what’s happening here…a Catholic poster has stated that his priest is into “New Age”…some other Catholic posters are arguing with a priest that some of his opinions do not line up with what the CC proclaims…other posters site poor catechizing as the reason that there may be some “Mary Worshippers” floating around out there…
And yet Protestants are told that they have ‘confusion’ and ‘chaos’ because of all their denominations…
And yet Protestants are told that they have ‘confusion’ and ‘chaos’ because of all their denominations…
P
Padrej
Guest
Keep on being disrespectful to the Clergy of the church. I notice that there was no answer to calling what HE QUOTED FROM THIS FORUM heresy. So what you and Saintlucy are saying is that this forum does not follow the Magesterium either by her OWN WORDS AND YOUR AGREEMENT.Excellently put!! :clapping:
G
guanophore
Guest
I have observed this also.
And pray for them, especially when they become Protestant.
P
Padrej
Guest
I thought the purpose of an open forum like this was to discuss ideas and opinions. I thought we all were having a great discussion on Mary until some attack a Catholic priest for putting things in ways that don’t exactly sound right to them and then turn around and criticize the man that he may not be Catholic and not teaching things like a Catholic should. I bet these same persons would not question if the bishop were visiting there church said the same thing similarly, nor would they argue with the man. Then again there were Catholics outraged when John Paul II visited a mosque and kissed a copy of the Koran. From the way some of these posting are going it looks like some of those persons have made it to this forum.So what’s happening here…a Catholic poster has stated that his priest is into “New Age”…some other Catholic posters are arguing with a priest that some of his opinions do not line up with what the CC proclaims…other posters site poor catechizing as the reason that there may be some “Mary Worshippers” floating around out there…
And yet Protestants are told that they have ‘confusion’ and ‘chaos’ because of all their denominations…
What I saw Fr John pointing out was the differing beliefs on Mary and attempting to explain to others that may not be Catholic a contrast. Last I knew that was not a sin, the way that I have read my copy of the Catholic catechism was it against it neither. When I took an apologetics course from Catholic University because I wanted to learn about the Catholic Church they explained the differing viewpoints as well. I guess now the way Catholic U teaches is wrong also. If you are going to learn you must also learn all points of view on the matter in addition to your own so that you can better defend your own point of view. If you agree did disagree when all points of view are put forth then things can move forward. What I have seen here quite frankly are persons who are on a crusade to discredit a Catholic priest for showing varying positions on the subject that we are supposed to be discussing whose points are also part of this wonderful forum.
P
Padrej
Guest
The Following excerpt is from the catholic Encyclopedia online edition on the Immaculate Conception doctrine. newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
*
In regard to the sinlessness of Mary the older Fathers are very cautious: some of them even seem to have been in error on this matter.
Code:
* Origen, although he ascribed to Mary high spiritual prerogatives, thought that, at the time of Christ's passion, the sword of disbelief pierced Mary's soul; that she was struck by the poniard of doubt; and that for her sins also Christ died (Origen, "In Luc. hom. xvii").
* In the same manner St. Basil writes in the fourth century: he sees in the sword, of which Simeon speaks, the doubt which pierced Mary's soul (Epistle 259).
* St. Chrysostom accuses her of ambition, and of putting herself forward unduly when she sought to speak to Jesus at Capharnaum (Matthew 12:46; Chrysostom, Homily 44 on Matthew).Please notice the phrase “some of them even seem to have been in error on this matter” which is the very thing Fr John is being accused of. Please also note the line “But these stray private opinions merely serve to show that theology is a progressive science” which persons on this thread are also not willing to admit. FrJohn was merely pointing out things also that were evolving in theology, is that wrong now to point those things out? I would like to know before you start going after my Protestant theology if you think that I am misquoting it.
F
FrJohnB
Guest
S
Saintlucy
Guest
It is heresy.
S
Saintlucy
Guest
Leeann, please don’t think that the entire Catholic Church is like this. It’s a shame IMHO. I will speak from my own experience.So what’s happening here…a Catholic poster has stated that his priest is into “New Age”…some other Catholic posters are arguing with a priest that some of his opinions do not line up with what the CC proclaims…other posters site poor catechizing as the reason that there may be some “Mary Worshippers” floating around out there…
And yet Protestants are told that they have ‘confusion’ and ‘chaos’ because of all their denominations…
It’s ironic that in a country with an established church (Church of England) and where we are still persecuted for our faith, we are very orthodox and obedient to the Magesterium. The Archbishop of Westminster, who is the head of the Church in England and Wales and the bishops under his authority, would not tolerate this diversity. Some years ago something happened in one of the parishes of our diocese; a particular “movement” within the Church tried to take over. Regular parishioners were being excluded from the normal workings of the parish. There was a thorough investigation and the Bishop, very quickly, nipped it in the bud, so to speak. The parish priest was moved and an orthodox one came in his place. This is now a thriving, multi- cultural parish which has a wonderful name. This is not a small diocese by the way.
We have enough problems with the media, who love to take swipes at us and the atheists, for example Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, who are religiously opposed to us. They are planning to disrupt the Pope’s visit here in September. Did you know that, in law, a member of the Royal Family cannot marry a Catholic and remain in line to the throne nor can a Catholic become King or Queen. Not that I want the throne, it’s just the principle. I just feel sorry for American Catholics who feel so upset about what happens in their parishes that they will shop around until they find one they feel happy in and with a pastor who is a true shepherd to his flock… I was going to say safe.
This is nothing to do with American people, just the Church in America. I lived in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles for 6 years and during that time I lapsed because I didn’t feel that I was being spiritually fed. I was a lot younger then and less patient.
I remember getting up early one Sunday morning and going to a 7 O’clock Mass in my own parish because I thought it would be quiet. No, even at that time of the morning there were guitars and drums. I’m ashamed of myself but I couldn’t stand it. I just wanted to hear Holy Mass. Loud music is OK for the main Mass but 7am?
I did attend a Mass in a Mexican neighbourhood once and although it was all in Spanish and did have music, I felt that I had attended Mass. I didn’t see any old ladies saying the Rosary just a bunch of fellow Catholics at Mass. I made the responses and said the prayers in English. But it was so far away from my home that I couldn’t go back.The Church is Clergy and the people. I think it’s time to take the Church back from the renegades and restore her. As Jesus said to St Francis of Assisi, “Rebuild my Church which is crumbling”. It’s up to the people to say, “No, this is wrong. No more cafeteria Catholicism from anyone.”
There is hope, I hope. I saw this on Youtube:
youtube.com/watch?v=B_btEwapXMA&playnext_from=TL&videos=PudPGUKtnwg&feature=sub
L
Leeann
Guest
**Re: Why is it wrong to love Mary, the Mother of God? **
It isn’t wrong to love Mary…it is wrong however to elevate her to a status that borders (or is in some cases ) on worship or transfers the attributes of the Holy Spirit to her.
It isn’t wrong to love Mary…it is wrong however to elevate her to a status that borders (or is in some cases ) on worship or transfers the attributes of the Holy Spirit to her.
S
Saintlucy
Guest
It is right to love and venerate Mary. We have told you over and over that Catholics do NOT worship Mary. It may look as though we do sometimes. Some people suffer from scrupulosity and go over the top. Scrupulosity can be very annoying to an outsider (outside of the person being scruplous, I mean) but it’s really a spiritual sickness in that they feel they can’t do right for doing wrong, if you understand me. They are the kind of people who are always in Confession for the slightest thing etc. Regular Catholics pray the Rosary or chaplets and NOT at Mass.
F
FrJohnB
Guest
It is nice to see that what is in the faith section of this forum that I posted a link from and quoted is heresy. At least you admit so. So why be here if you think the forum is heresy? Especially the parts on Mary.
P
Padrej
Guest
Could you explain what attributes of the Holy Spirit that you see people transferring onto Mary? Maybe if you could give an example we could better respond to the issue that you have where you believe that SOME CASES border on worship.
L
Leeann
Guest
Yes…thanks for that.
Actions speak louder than words - unfortunately sometimes.
L
Leeann
Guest
Well…perhaps *you *are okay…I thought you were one big happy ‘family’…what about those who have been poorly taught (as it has been indicated in this forum by a poster(s) that this happens to some… )…they’re not “a-ok”…
Then you will know it is with good reason.
- Status